Open 690: Kill All Townies - Game Over

[GameNBurger]

VOTE: CommKnight

I sound like a broken record at this point, but Why the vote? I would expect a hydra would have atleast something well put together to say.

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 1.06

Lynching

With 17 votes in play, it takes 9 to lynch.

Kawso

(3): Gamma Emerald, Hawk, GameNBurger

GameNBurger

(3): Bellaphant, CommKnight, MarioManiac4

Siblings Pet Doggo

(2): Kawso, EchoVision

Balki B

(1): Sesq

Bellaphant

(1): DeltaW

EchoVision

(1): havingfitz

beeboy

(1): Almost50

havingfitz

(1): Tenshii

Sesq

(1): Flubbernugget

CommKnight

(1): Siblings Pet Doggo

Nobody

(2): beeboy, Balki B

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-06-13 01:40:00)

[GameNBurger]

Okay I don't think I've missed anything anymore, do question me if i missed anything tho, I'm not exactly the most thorough guy in the world

I await getting to pull all your teeth out trying to get answers

[MarioManiac4]

eh, fair enough
VOTE: Kawso

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

The red hearing point was that the point was just distracting over all, the vote will be explained later. We do have something to say about it though. I can explain it more when I'm ready.

[GameNBurger]

The red hearing point was that the point was just distracting over all, the vote will be explained later. We do have something to say about it though. I can explain it more when I'm ready.

Fair enough

[Balki B]

>Kawso does something scummy that hurts you directly
>"That something scum would do, no scum would be stupid enought to do that, so he must be town"
>Unvotes Kawso

I'm sorry but the whole "this is scummy, no scum would ever do that" is some serious WIFOM

That's not my argument. That's your strawman.

I am looking for things that are alignment indicative. I'm not looking for objectively poor play. Town do dumb things more often than scum because scum are carefully trying to blend in. For an example, look no further than the Alisae example, which was the only one cited for the: "this is scummy" postulate.

[MarioManiac4]

If you're gonna put words in my mouth at least tell me what it is I truly believe, clarity goes a long way in conversation

Sure. It's quite clear:

If you wanna look town by making the first accusation, at least don't crumble as soon as someone half observes you making the move you're accusing someone else of making

Here's a protip next time you get anything non townie, or even if you do get townie, Less is more.

You have suggested, with much more certainty than SPD, that I am scum.

Ah I see, lovely you can detect my hint of dry sarcasm with those sentences to call me a condescending asshole, but cant seem to read the conclusion of my post, ya know, the most important part that states the point:

(3)Its not, if you're referring to question 2, and if you're not, it helps to use direct subjects in questions, not pronouns. Nice bait by the way,

I don't personally think Echo's claim holds water but I do think the fact that you seem to be in panic mode makes it worth the vote for pressure. I honestly cant say if you're 100% scum, but i think some pressure will help me decide in the end.

Thank you for atleast being clear with what you're saying, I'm gonna have a lot of fun having pull teeth everytime I want to know what you're saying.

Also, will you be playing the entire game as a condescending asshole? Is it some sort of role play?

Nah, I just happen to be a condescending asshole to everyone, or atleast I am when deciphering what you're trying to say takes so much time (with the exception of your post before you panic, could we get your posts to resemble that atleast?). Please be clear and direct when saying things, and I cant seriously remember the last time direct anger baiting (The calling me a condescending asshole bit so i'm clear) ever worked.

POST AUTHORSHIP Since you posted with a more thoughtful post since i started writing: Thats what i'm looking for as far as clarity goes, and to itterate more on why I think you were in panic mode: Shortfire posts, the lack of clarity, the primary use of ethos rather logos in arguments. I repeat this since i'm demanding a sense of quality from your posts, I might as well hold myself to the same standard.

Can you two stop this, separate arguments is anti-town, all I see is 2 fuckwits arguing over a point made several pages ago and escalating it so which ever of you is scum can use it as material for your wagon later.

^ this looks like fake frustration, I voted him for it but then forgot about it

VOTE: DeltaW

[GameNBurger]

>Kawso does something scummy that hurts you directly
>"That something scum would do, no scum would be stupid enought to do that, so he must be town"
>Unvotes Kawso

I'm sorry but the whole "this is scummy, no scum would ever do that" is some serious WIFOM

That's not my argument. That's your strawman.

I am looking for things that are alignment indicative. I'm not looking for objectively poor play. Town do dumb things more often than scum because scum are carefully trying to blend in. For an example, look no further than the Alisae example, which was the only one cited for the: "this is scummy" postulate.

One example does not change the circumstance

Pointing towards PR's is characterized by a mismanagment of goals in ones psyche: scum subconsously dont care if PR's are outed, especially in a game with two factional kills per night. A townie can make the mistake by not thinking the game thru at all, but that scenario is true to inexperienced scum players as well. So you have one scenarion in the possible townie column (Townie not thinking thru the game), and two in the scum column (Scum not thinking thru the game, Scum slipping accidentally, and if you want to stretch Scum trying to make it obvious to other faction who to off at night). This is why pointing to PRs is seen as scummy. Starting to invert these logic tables as scum trying to blend in is serious WIFOM.

[Almost50]

@Comm/Sesq: Your reads on each other please. Also, if it's not much to ask, your top 3 scum reads each.

[Bellaphant]

Delta, you said, "which ever of you is scum," implying that you find one of them to be scum. who of balki/gamenburger is scum/scummier?

I like this Delta's post was weird, frustration without a clear come down, but implied one (why not both? or none?) would flip scum, but didn't follow this up. You can have the points your avatar lost you back.

VOTE: Sesq

I don't hate this as a vote, but why so many nahs? can you explain?

@Comm/Sesq: Your reads on each other please. Also, if it's not much to ask, your top 3 scum reads each.

hey! We've played before - any initial thoughts yourself?

also, someone said i was quiet. come talk to me

[Balki B]

One example does not change the circumstance

Pointing towards PR's is characterized by a mismanagment of goals in ones psyche: scum subconsously dont care if PR's are outed, especially in a game with two factional kills per night. A townie can make the mistake by not thinking the game thru at all, but that scenario is true to inexperienced scum players as well. So you have one scenarion in the possible townie column (Townie not thinking thru the game), and two in the scum column (Scum not thinking thru the game, Scum slipping accidentally, and if you want to stretch Scum trying to make it obvious to other faction who to off at night). This is why pointing to PRs is seen as scummy. Starting to invert these logic tables as scum trying to blend in is serious WIFOM.

GameNBurger, respectfully, you should stop talking about Greek expressions and "logic tables."

Just because there are two explanations for why scum might do something, and one explanation for why town might do something, does not mean each explanation is equally likely and so the observed behavior is 2/3 scum.

This game should not be played in short hand (e.g., "pointing to PRs is seen as scummy"). You have offered me lots of advice, thank you. My advice to you is that for any observed behavior, consider the scum motivation and narrative, consider the town motivation and narrative, and then consider which is more likely.

[Balki B]

VOTE: CommKnight

I sound like a broken record at this point, but Why the vote? I would expect a hydra would have atleast something well put together to say.

+1

The unexplained votes and lazy play is hurting us.

[GameNBurger]

Whoo boy, where to start with this?

GameNBurger, respectfully, you should stop talking about Greek expressions and "logic tables."

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. These arent lingo I'm throwing around to make myself sound smart or some shit, if thats what you're trying to imply. Those greek expressions are common ones that are taught in most every high school level writing class or speech class at some point, I screwed them up in memory because I have bad memory. Logic tables are useful for disecting a decision made in any game, espescially one as game theory involved as Mafia. The Logic tables themselves are great for conjecture. Theyre not great for deciding final votes, but none of us are there yet now are we?

Just because there are two explanations for why scum might do something, and one explanation for why town might do something, does not mean each explanation is equally likely and so the observed behavior is 2/3 scum.

Thats not what I'm implying either. I'm saying that the same a reason a townie would point to PR are the same reason a scum would do so as well. The fact that there are more reasons for scum to do this outside of thougtlessness gives me enough to at least take interest and vote for pressure. We're not at the end of a bandwagon vote yet, so nothing is final. You don't need to be 100% certain to vote ya know.

This game should not be played in short hand (e.g., "pointing to PRs is seen as scummy"). You have offered me lots of advice, thank you. My advice to you is that for any observed behavior, consider the scum motivation and narrative, consider the town motivation and narrative, and then consider which is more likely.

This game should not be played in short hand

You know theres a whole wiki attatcthed to this site dedicated to allow players to play in shorthand, some of which the articles are so amazingly misnamed that you can not deduce the meaning yourself without having to look them up (wine in front of me, Chainsaw defense, the list goes on and on)? I suppose i mean badly named but you get the point. I agree there should be clarity but the idea that short hand is a no no is laughable.

As for the rest of that snippet of quote, Thats exactly what i'm doing, and its why my vote is where it is, so I fail to see what you're trying to say at all.

[GameNBurger]

also, someone said i was quiet. come talk to me

You're not talking to me directly but I am curious to hear more from you. Any additional thought to add to your vote for me, or is it just that my pressure vote on Balki was a stretch?

[GameNBurger]

Wait scratch what i said I'm an idiot you changed that vote forever ago

[GameNBurger]

Wait never mind i read the vote count wrong ignore the post above this one, I'm a tripple idiot

[Sesq]

@Comm/Sesq: Your reads on each other please. Also, if it's not much to ask, your top 3 scum reads each.

lol i dont fuckin know

[Bellaphant]

Game, it's a tone thing. There's a lot on page 4 that got to me, between you and belki (especially the etymology, just...no, you've out-nerded me) but belki seemed to be linking it more to the game, rather than posturing.

[GameNBurger]

Game, it's a tone thing. There's a lot on page 4 that got to me, between you and belki (especially the etymology, just...no, you've out-nerded me) but belki seemed to be linking it more to the game, rather than posturing.

Fair enough, I can see how it looks that way. Not really a way to really reassure you otherwise tho.

[havingfitz]

#11...@Commknight...were you fishing for someone to vote you for LAMIST shit?

#39...@Balki...I actually read the point you are making at Kawso as something I would expect town to ask. Actually...on further review...I take that back. More people than just Balki and Flubber had not posted yet. And I doubt someone would have looked over that Mario D1Pg1 post and compared it to who had yet to post. So I read that as Kawso has a tie to one or both of them. And the only people in this game with ties to others are anti-town.

VOTE: Kawso

#43; - Echo coming to Kawso's defense.

#89; The first line of this Kawso post reads forced/disingenuine. Not a fan of any of the rest of it either.

Caught up through 168.

Scum reading Kawso for keying in on two players from a group of more than two. Laughing it off in post 89.

Eye on Delta....TBD on Balki and GameBurger.

Liking Mario.

[havingfitz]

Oops...left out links. Pardon.

[Bellaphant]

@game, it's fine, it's just a gear shift from my last game. you got thoughts on sesq?

[GameNBurger]

@game, it's fine, it's just a gear shift from my last game. you got thoughts on sesq?

Not enough for anything. He's either lazy, busy, waiting to bus, or waiting to join a vote that's more convincing. There's a lot you could read out of nothing. If it wasn't for PR pointing I'd probably throw a pressure vote in his direction but I'm not so sure even. The only player that has less gameplay going is the guy with the 5 at the end of his name and comm. I think. It hard to keep track of players that float, ya know?

[EchoVision]

@Comm/Sesq: Your reads on each other please. Also, if it's not much to ask, your top 3 scum reads each.

lol i dont fuckin know

usually I'd be like k bye scum and lynch you but it's still incredibly early game so I can actually respect this and personally I call this NAI