Open 690: Kill All Townies - Game Over

[podoboq]

Official Vote Count 1.17

Lynching

With 17 votes in play, it takes 9 to lynch.

Kawso

(4): Gamma Emerald, Hawk, havingfitz, beeboy

CommKnight

(3): EchoVision, MarioManiac4, Flubbernugget

Flubbernugget

(2): Sesq, Tenshii

GameNBurger

(2): CommKnight, Almost50

Almost50

(1): Bellaphant

MarioManiac4

(1): DeltaW

Siblings Pet Doggo

(1): GameNBurger

Nobody

(3): Kawso, Balki B, Siblings Pet Doggo

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-06-13 01:40:00)

[GameNBurger]

Game.
I want you to explain to me why I write 464 as scum.
-Ali

You try to explain how going rogue and CC to take control by yourself is a town move

I'm also now mentally tired in addition to physically tired I already was and at this point I'm like legit pissed at you So its probably best I just sleep this bonehead play off

[CommKnight]

So Ali... now that you owned up to it. Help lynch scum. I was serious, other faction could off you in the night or in the event of my death, you'd be immediately lynched. So unlike you and the other two, I am focused on finding at LEAST 5 others that are scum, at least 2 of those 5 (3 if you're really town) are more than likely in the group that voted for me.

If there's only ONE scum in Balki and Game, I think it's Game. He's showing that he knows enough (not quite much, but enough) to know continuing to push on the cop claim was a bad move.

We also now have to sort Echo, Mario and Flubber. 2/3 more likely than not being scum.

[CommKnight]

I was also serious if I got mislynched because of your CC and you were town, I would've reported your ass for that very very bad attempt.

[GameNBurger]

Hey Game.
Instead of jumping to conclusions, read my reasoning for why I did that?

And as scum, why would I even back off like that?
-Ali

Mainly Because i read your post and thats such a bullshit move given the multiball setup as Almost50 has pointed out

And i havent played in like 4 years but I seriously doubt meta has changed so drastically that fake claiming as town is all of a sudden an acceptable play in any standard

Meet RadiantCowbells: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 6#p9104916

That game he was hydraing with Titus.

Scum!Ari fakeclaims a 1-shot BP as scum getting wagoned.
They fake a CC.

The idea is not completely out of possibility.

tbh, I'm not even thinking at all from the viewpoints Almost is bringing up.
-Ali

You destroy a lot in the process if you're wrong and complicate how the town proceeds
Which surprises me given my experience with Titus before that they would try this

Its the fact that you didnt think about the setup that really hurts it. I may have glossed over it as well but I'm not the one making these gambits

Okay someone else fill me in is this seriously a commonplace thing you see now, fakeclaiming as town?

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

Yeah.
I can do that and gambit because I know what I am doing.

I just think it makes perfect sense for scum to claim cop/seer in a panic after getting wagoned.
-Ali

pedit: I really did not think the way you went about that was serious tho. Like, you just seemed like you didn't care at all.
pedit2: I don't understand why Flubber is bad, they look good in my eyes.
Also Game is town IMO.

I think Echo maybe? He seems disinterested in the questions he asks.

pedit3: I just come from a school of scumhunting where I like gambitting.

[CommKnight]

I find fake claiming as town acceptable if you're in a PT and set it up with the actual PR or similar means. OR if you claim a PR in an attempt to draw the shot away from the real PR if people are already looking at you.

I do not agree with fake claiming when the real PR is actually near the noose. That is risky and you give scum 2 mislynches.

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

I feel like the way sesq avoided the wagon is scummy.
But yeah tbh, I wasn't really thinking about the setup.
-Ali

pedit: I fakeclaimed because I thought you were scum fakeclaiming near a noose.

[Balki B]

@Ali, I knew what you were doing! (even though I'm a dumb noob).

@Game, explain why scum Doggo does that. And then explain why scum Doggo retracts.

@Town, the moment Comm claimed Cop, his (lowish) odds of being Town went down a lot. Now we can be pretty sure that he's one of the 6 scumslots or Cop. 1/7 Town. If he's Cop, it would be bad to lose Cop, but not such a big deal to lose outed Cop. Given the groundswell of vigor behind the Comm wagon, And his general flailing, I think that a scum-aligned survivalist/PR fishing motivation is very likely.

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

Also consider this... if I were scum, why would Ali CC? The other scum team would have to SHOOT me with no CC's.

So there's no benefit for town!Ali to CC me as they just get themselves killed in a crossfire.

Just saying.

Ali CCed you because you were trying a last-ditch effort to wriggle out of a correct lynch.

Balki, I figured out that you knew when you posted this and something sorta clicked to me when you said you were a Town Treasure. I'd cherish you

-Ali

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

/me cherishes the town treasure.

[CommKnight]

pedit: I fakeclaimed because I thought you were scum fakeclaiming near a noose.

Which you have to really think about Ali. If I'm scum in a multi-ball claiming a PR, that draws scum's attention ALL to me from the opposing side.

Even outside of multiball, fake claiming like you did. If I was lynched, you wouldn't be able to retract so easily D2 when I flip cop. Because your CC would be seen as the final factor in my mislynch and there wouldn't be any place to wiggle out.

Like I said, I agree with fake claiming on occasion, but you also have to consider what happens if you're wrong. Do you screw town over more by faking the CC or by letting the fake claim go by and hope the real PR either outs them or someone offs them themselves?

You CC'd my claim so fast... like I was beginning to wonder if the mod messed up role PM's because it seemed like a stupid move for scum to do.

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

Comm, I was considering the costs though. If you were a cop, I would have gladly eaten rope the next day.
It's just, like for example after you just dodge questions like Flub and mine, and write posts like 249 where you don't add anything to the game, your reads are super surface level and scummy, and also easily fakable, I just found it really hard you were interested in genuinely forming reads and scumhunt.
The lead up was just really scummy from my POV =(
-Ali

[CommKnight]

Another consideration to take into account is this. In this SPECIFIC set-up, trading a PR for a scum is actually beneficial to TOWN. If I fake claimed as scum, the real PR would want to out. Here's why. Cop and Seer can each find only two scum. We can't find the other faction and we can't find the GodFathers. This means if we even take down ONE goon/Doc with us, then it's worth it.

The only PR we want to really protect from outing is the Vigilante. Because the Vigilante is actually more important to town than either the Cop or Seer. It's the only town role that can kill the scum without the lynch being controlled by both factions.

Hence, the green light for the scum to shoot as often as possible. There's a big number of scum to hit, so even a random pot shot hits scum more often than not.

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

Like shit, I feel like you would have atleast tried to answer my questions if you were town and not just totally ignore me.
Like, fuck man.
I thought you respected me more then that =(
-Ali

[CommKnight]

@Ali, well I change my gameplay a lot, each game I differ it a bit even by minor details. But in general. I'm more aggressive when I am vig/VT and need to sort people. When I'm investigative, I wait for the night so I can get a confirmed scum and not rely on my aggressive gut reads.

[CommKnight]

Like shit, I feel like you would have atleast tried to answer my questions if you were town and not just totally ignore me.
Like, fuck man.
I thought you respected me more then that =(
-Ali

It's intentional. Ignore reads, do scummy shit. Try to look scummy enough to not look like a PR. I don't want to be killed N1 before I can even OUT a result (hopefully find a scummy). So I gotta look like I'd be an easy mislynch D2, D3 or even D4. It's wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

Yeah, I guess you're right.
I don't think scum would fakeclaim vigi either, because then the real vigi would just shoot them or something.
Ugggggggggggh okay.

{Comm, Almost, Balki, Game, Kawso, Flubber, MM4, Us} Let's assume all of these are town and go from there.

Comm, what do you think of sesq not voting on your wagon because she's afraid someone will quicklynch?
What do you think of what I said of Echo?
What do you think of Tenshi defending you when he did defend you? Frog scumreads Tenshi like, really hard btw.
-Ali

[Sesq]

I feel like the way sesq avoided the wagon is scummy.
But yeah tbh, I wasn't really thinking about the setup.
-Ali

pedit: I fakeclaimed because I thought you were scum fakeclaiming near a noose.

i honestly dont know at this point who is scum man

sell me

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

Like shit, I feel like you would have atleast tried to answer my questions if you were town and not just totally ignore me.
Like, fuck man.
I thought you respected me more then that =(
-Ali

It's intentional. Ignore reads, do scummy shit. Try to look scummy enough to not look like a PR. I don't want to be killed N1 before I can even OUT a result (hopefully find a scummy). So I gotta look like I'd be an easy mislynch D2, D3 or even D4. It's wolf in sheep's clothing.

Yeah. I can understand this thought process thinking back on it.
Fuck man, I just feel really bad for hardpushing you like I did now because I honestly didn't think this was what you were doing
-Ali

pedit: Okay sesq, we can talk. What do you think of Echo?
-Ali

[CommKnight]

I mean I could act like the perfect townie. Answer everyone's questions, do everything perfectly. Then be killed N1 because I get seen as a threat.

If you actually want to meta me. Look at my games. I always draw attention to myself as town in one way or another just enough to hover in the scummy area. I survive. I wait until scum has no where to hide and then I out every single one of them.

It obviously doesn't always work, sometimes I go overboard or I simply get mislynched due to not being read correctly. But it's just a game, so no jimmies of mine get rustled from it.

Fastposted. Honestly, Sesq seems reasonable. What town would want another town to be quicklynched? Especially on a town that had votes piling up from sheep that weren't even making their own cases. Just sheeping the lead pusher.

Echo is a possibility. But look at your "assume are town" everyone but Echo that were on my wagon you have in there when I'm telling you, at the very least there are two scum on it, more than likely however there will be 3.

Tenshi called a spade a spade. They didn't like the case and rightly called it out.

[CommKnight]

Fuck man, I just feel really bad for hardpushing you like I did now because I honestly didn't think this was what you were doing
-Ali

Honestly, I do it quite often. That being said, admittingly, I've taken bigger risks as scum (actually one being in a closed multiball set-up where I was WW and fake claimed the most insane made up role I could think of and survive long enough for my buddy to win a 1v2 after they finally lynched me after 3 long days after my insane claim).

[Sesq]

tbh i havent been paying much attention, will iso now

after reading through it i dont really see anything except sorta what seems like wagoning onto comm

[Siblings Pet Doggo]

Fastposted. Honestly, Sesq seems reasonable. What town would want another town to be quicklynched? Especially on a town that had votes piling up from sheep that weren't even making their own cases. Just sheeping the lead pusher.

Echo is a possibility. But look at your "assume are town" everyone but Echo that were on my wagon you have in there when I'm telling you, at the very least there are two scum on it, more than likely however there will be 3.

Tenshi called a spade a spade. They didn't like the case and rightly called it out.

About Sesq: that could have been scum not wanting to bring attention to themselves? Tho I will say them not knowing who scum is just sounds really honest tbh.
Echo: Remember the D1 Yuri wagon in Civ where that got to L-1 and that was ALL TOWN? 3 is a lot tbh. 2 at max probably. 1 possible. 0 is also very likely. Scum could just be in the lurkers imo.
Tenshi: Honestly, I'ma leave this one up in the air for Frog to talk to you about more. This is something Frog feels very strongly about, so I think he'll be able to talk about it more WHEN HE'LL FOCUS ON THE GAME.
-Ali

pedit: sesq, my main concern with Echo is he asked me some quesitons about Comm and MM4, but I don't think he cares about the answers. Does that make sense?
-Ali

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: DeltaW
i have skimmed the last five or so pages so my vote returns to this