Fro99er/Alisae's Large Normal

Nexus · Post Post #25 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:41 am

i definitely dont' remember saying that's normal and if i did please link me to it

Fro99er · Post Post #26 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:43 am

Fro99er wrote:Hi Nexus!

Apologies if I should be asking someone else this. I'm thinking of running another large normal after the current one I'm running finishes, but before we ever put it in review, I don't want to do that if the way this works isn't what I'm thinking of.

Let's say we have:

Mafia Goon
Mafia Traitor-Enabler

(these two in the Mafia factional PT)

and also a
Mafia Traitor
who -- as normal rules dictate -- knows who the other two mafia are, but the mafia doesn't know who he/she is.

All three of these are perfectly normal roles. But my question is this:

If the Mafia Traitor-Enabler dies, then the Traitor no longer has traitor abilities, which means he's then known to the goon and joins the main Mafia PT?

Is that correct?

Nexus wrote:Er. I think so?

Nexus · Post Post #27 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:43 am

lol wow i am shit.

Fro99er · Post Post #28 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:44 am

but you know...I made it up

Nexus · Post Post #29 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:44 am

ok let me think about this sorry

Fro99er · Post Post #30 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:44 am

In post 24, Nexus wrote:wait so what is the problem

you want a traitor enabler which would make a traitor a 'mafia x' if it dies?

no.

not at all what I said

a doctor-enabler when he dies, the doctors no longer have doctor abilities

why wouldn't a traitor-enabler when he dies, mean the traitor no longer has traitor abilities?

Nexus · Post Post #31 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:45 am

I think that was a PM i responded to on my phone.

I should stop doing that.

SORRY FRO99ER

Nexus · Post Post #32 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:45 am

In post 30, Fro99er wrote:
In post 24, Nexus wrote:wait so what is the problem

you want a traitor enabler which would make a traitor a 'mafia x' if it dies?

no.
not at all what I said

a doctor-enabler when he dies, the doctors no longer have doctor abilities

why wouldn't a traitor-enabler when he dies, mean the traitor no longer has traitor abilities?

What is a 'traitor' ability, though? If it's to be recruitable, then if it loses that ability, it shouldn't be recruitable anymore, and therefore shouldn't get to join the PT. it'd essentially be a goon but with no access to the PT.

Fro99er · Post Post #33 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:46 am

no, a traitor has an ability to NOT be recruitable

then he loses that ability

Fro99er · Post Post #34 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:47 am

Again, mastina's interpretation, with abilities bolded.

mastina wrote: However, if the Mafia Traitor is just a Mafia Traitor, and your intention is in fact that upon the death of the traitor enabler for the traitor to stop being a traitor, then I believe the traitor would join the mafia team and become a goon. I mean. Alignment changes aren't allowed in Normals, so it's not like the traitor can become a vanilla townie upon the death of the traitor-enabler.
Yet the traitor's abilities are:
-Not being able to kill (natural immunity to gunsmith)
-Not being able to communicate
-Being endgamed if the last scum alive thanks to not being able to kill
-Knowing who the scumteam are.

These are the things which I think of as being enabled by a traitor-enabler.
So upon the death of the traitor-enabler, all but the last would go away I'd think...leaving a traitor who is, in fact, now a Vanilla Mafiate...aka, a Goon.

[/quote]

Fro99er · Post Post #35 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:48 am

we'll scrap the game but I expect this to be addressed by normal guidelines in the near future, because it's explicity normal yet people are arguing it's not.

Nexus · Post Post #36 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:49 am

Fro99er · Post Post #37 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:49 am

^I agree

Nexus · Post Post #38 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:49 am

I don't understand the necessity to push the normal boundaries as far as possible but that's clearly just me.

Nexus · Post Post #39 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:50 am

I don't know what to suggest. I can only apologise for misleading you with my response - I responded via my phone and obviously didn't think i through.

I was going to invite you to the NRG anyway, so if you want to join, you can join and bring this into it as your first order of business.

Fro99er · Post Post #40 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:51 am

I'm not trying to "push the boundaries"

I'm trying to create a setup that's within the guidelines. I didn't set out to think "this will push boundaries". I set out to create what I thought was a cool setup that needed some help with balance.

Fro99er · Post Post #41 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:53 am

In post 39, Nexus wrote:I don't know what to suggest. I can only apologise for misleading you with my response - I responded via my phone and obviously didn't think i through.

I was going to invite you to the NRG anyway, so if you want to join, you can join and bring this into it as your first order of business.

I'd be happy to join the NRG, because I basically live in the normal forum.

Nexus · Post Post #42 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:57 am

sorry fro99er

Nexus · Post Post #43 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:57 am

what do you want to do

Fro99er · Post Post #44 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:02 am

I'll think of a new setup since this mechanic seems to be a no-go for now. Give me a day or two (Alisae's on vacation, and I did most of this setup anyway, so I'm sure Ali won't mind)

ISO · Post Post #45 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:33 am

In post 34, Fro99er wrote:Again, mastina's interpretation, with abilities bolded.

I'd like to put out on record that while I do tend to like my interpretations, I am not infallible in them. I am fond of exact words and of literal interpretation of roles so this is something I tend to be good at, but my interpretation is not absolute law; it's simply my personal interpretation and I'm not the head of the NRG; Nexus is, so his word supersedes my own.

I think the key factor in question is whether Traitor is something you can classify as being a role which can be enabled--
Yet I've seen things like "miller enablers", "daytalk enablers" (they're called encryptors), "bulletproof enablers", "ascetic enablers", and similar for passive abilities, which are what the traitor is made out of.

A "traitor enabler" feels like it is a logical extension of the above.
Traitor is a role.
Enablers enable a role.
Upon the death of a traitor-enabler, a traitor ceases to be that role.
So that's why for me personally I don't have an issue with the concept. Yet I'm not the absolute word here.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #46 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:41 am

Err. I'm not arguing what a 'traitor enabler' would be if we accept that it's a thing. I'm arguing that traitor is not a role that should be treated as if it can be 'enabled' in that sense.

Alisae · Post Post #47 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:42 pm

Yeah I don't really mind Frog you do your thing I'm just enjoying vacation.

Antihero · Post Post #48 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:57 pm

hey so if you want to see how an all scum neighborhood turns out for the mod, get ready to be on the wrong end of pitchforks postgame

Antihero · Post Post #49 (ISO) » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:05 pm

In post 48, Antihero wrote:hey so if you want to see how an all scum neighborhood turns out for the mod, get ready to be on the wrong end of pitchforks postgame

i revised that mid sentence and it doesn't make sense, but... this is the game i'm talking about:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=59516