Newbie 1806 - The Ffery Garden: GAME OVER!

[RadiantCowbells]

That is what I have been advocating, yes.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am much more confident in Unabombah scum Ithink

[Miles Edgeworth]

Let's do this: I've brought my case for WhaleBarnicle already. I'll even repost it for reference. You bring your argument for Unabombah/Cankles being scum (in whatever form you like, doesn't have to be a long post if that's not your thing, just summarize what you see), and let's force people to give their opinions about both of them and either vote for one or the other or make a seriously good justification for neither being a good lynch.

I think one struggle we've had this game is that a lot of people aren't really committing to specific evidence supporting one position or another. I don't necessarily mean logical argumentation like I've done, but even so much as "does post X ever come from town/mafia" type of comments. Most of the posters here have been allowed to drift from position to position without having their feet be put to the fire over it, so let's give 'em two good choices and make 'em decide.

[Miles Edgeworth]

I don't believe that a townie would back off of his wagon like WB backed off of Cankles in day 1. At no point in day 1 was Cankles safe from being lynched, yet WB wants us to believe that he couldn't get a Cankles lynch?

Look at the Fykus lynch. Look how little effort it took our two known non-Fykus townies (mhsmith and RadiantCowbells) to get on board. Knowing how easily the town piled up on Fykus late, it's not true that WB couldn't have pushed his desired lynch.

Then we get to day 2, and WB has decided to push on the confirmed townie's punching bag of choice, WhyMafia, and dropped his Cankles case completely. It doesn't make any sense as town. It makes

great

sense as mafia though: scum!WB wouldn't want to be tied to hypothetical town!Cankles's lynch and obviously wouldn't want to lynch scum!Cankles, and this low-profile drift toward another popular wagon is an excellent way for scum!WB to slide into LYLO with very little negative attention to his name.


The other reason isn't as concrete, but it resonates with me, so maybe it will with y'all as well. The two wagons that have emerged so far today are WM and you, Whemestar, and I quite frankly haven't seen any significant pushing from anyone outside of RC pushing WM. Several posters have expressed their opinions, forcefully even, but there's been very little in the way of meaningful argument and dialogue. It's been a lot of tilting at windmills, with no real cases making any traction -- just a lot of gut reads and muh feels and shit. This is the kind of environment scum loves and the kind of wagons that they thrive on: inert, apathetic voting pile-ups driven by one outspoken townie giving a shit.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2.7

Even moon gardens need texture and height variations. A good choice for a moon garden tree is crabapple. They flower profusely in the spring. Fortunately, some varietals do quite well in California.

WhyMafia

(2): WhaleBarnicle, WhemeStar

WhemeStar

(2): WhyMafia, PersephoneSidekick

UnaBombaH

(1): RadiantCowbells

WhaleBarnicle

(1): Miles Edgeworth

Not Voting

(1): Una

Deadline: July 23 Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-07-22 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[UnaBombaH]

I would much prefer not to be lynched, and I'm going sleep soon. Please don't give anyone a chance to hammer, and I'll be around tomorrow to answer anything you want.

[WhyMafia]

Miles I've been thinking, and I support your case on Whale
UNVOTE: All
Ugh
3 scummy players
Who to choose? Decisions decisions.

[UnaBombaH]

Miles I've been thinking, and I support your case on Whale
UNVOTE: All
Ugh
3 scummy players
Who to choose? Decisions decisions.

Who would you say are the three and why? Do you consider me scummy? And if you do, is it based on Cankles or my actions? Or maybe both (in a different way)?

I'm asking because I consider this a training environment, and I have yet to be scum in a game on this site.
Yet I have been read as scum previously too.
I don't like playing any differently from how I do in face-to-face -Mafia, because I would love to pull NK's my way as VT, but somehow in this text-based format I come off wrong.
Don't know what it is, I honestly write what I think, and try to advance the game for Town.

On another note: I like how Miles is trying to build a reasonable case towards Whale, whom I didn't find scummy before, but now that he isn't straight up answering to the call, I'm becoming more suspicious too.

[RadiantCowbells]

Meh I'm going back and I think I'd rather lynch Whymafia

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah I dug through some meta. Stuff that I thought was outside of his scum range wasn't, and his town game is way better than this.

VOTE: WhyMafia

DOVAHKIIN DRAGONBORN

[UnaBombaH]

Trying to (again) do something productive here, and avoid doing anything productive IRL, I went over Whales posts.
I tried to dissect his opening post, leaving out his analysis on RC. I'd like to hear anyones opinions on it.
This is also good practice for quote-formatting I think, lets see how it works out.

In order:

PersephoneSidekick (Peri):

This is probably my biggest townread right now. Back in post 15 Peri warned about us putting someone at L-2 quickly. From a scum perspective this doesn't make sense since if we accidentally caused a quick mislynch without realizing it, we'd be down two people going into day 2 with very little information to go off of. If she were scum WITH Ciara (the person who was at L-2), then this seems like it would be a pretty forward defense and would get sniffed out pretty quickly if either one of them ended up flopping up scum. Then, what also struck me as town was in post 44. All of the questions that were asked were decent probing types of questions I thought. I personally didn't feel like there was really a lot of misguiding or suggestion in them.

My biggest concern for you is that you're almost too towny? I haven't really seen a lot wrong with the way you are playing, which ironically is almost concerning. Because of that, even though you are my biggest town read right now, don't sit to comfortably there cause I still have my eyes on you. For now though, I don't mind.

So if Whale were to be lynched and he flips scum, is this where I start to look for the accomplice? Funnily enough, his strongest townread is the one guy I sort of suspected, even though it was mainly by proxy via WhyMafia suspicions. Note how Whale has to put something negative about him too, but doesn't find anything but "maybe too towny".
So now I have another possible scum-duo in my mind, it being Perse/Whale.

King Cankles (Cankles):

So far, one of my bigger contenders for scum spots. Let's see here...post 29 he suggests that we have a nolynch Day 1.
----------------------
At least his story is consistent, but I find it fundamentally flawed to think that nothing important has transpired during the first day. Hiding from that fact and not taking an active position in figuring it out is either cowardly, or scummy at best.

After this, people finally start realizing just how little Cankles has really contributed to this, and I think that I really appeciate RadCow and Peri for point this out. Fykus went along with this little train too iirc, and what Cnakles said was just too little in terms of a justification. He still dodged a lot of questions, still really refused to take up much of an opinion about anything, and only promised to post more tomorrow (after he can consult his more experienced scum buddy for advice on what to say?... ). Too little too late, and if votes is what is going to have to get you to talk, then I would really really love to hear you sing. VOTE: Cankles. That's also L-1 for anybody playing along at home.

Many players will obviously see this differently, but the way it seems to me (this slot being in focus), I feel like Whale is just hopping on the wagon.
I do not like how he really gives the explanation ready for Cankles, and then says its not enough of a reason.
I edited out the part where Whale explains why no-lynch on D1 is stupid, but then again, WHY did he deem it necessary to write it out? It had been already explained to Cankles, and everyone else, so it seems like an attempt to act helpful where no help was needed anymore.

Then he keeps belittling Cankles few arguments before placing his vote on him. And notice here,

HE PLACES THE L-1 VOTE

, and makes sure to jokingly point it out to avoid scummyness,

BUT HIDES IT IN THE MIDDLE OF A HUGE WALL OF TEXT.

And to make it even more confusing, he next votes for himself in the very same post, basically revoking the L-1

and then revoting in the next post without bringing up the L-1, now that he had a good chance to make sure everyone would notice it.

PestoSwami (Salami):

I have a bit of a hard time reading this guy as well. I get that we are all new here and all, but it seems almost like he asks questions to meet his "posting quota" or something like that and also doesn't really tackle into any real situations. This could be someone new just really overwhelmed, or a scum feigning a dumb card. I'd see him as a potential lurker scum if that second one is the case, but obviously this is a bit more circumstantial than for Cankles who has admitted to playing this game in some form before (which is why I place my vote on Cankles and not Salami). I'd like to her more from you more.

Question for you: How did you hear about this website? What experience do you have with the game, and how can we trust you saying that? A general reads list would be nice too, just do not vote for Cankles right away without stating an intent to do so, I still want to hear if he comes up with anything good.

I'm starting to get tired of typing by this point so these may get a bit shorter/lazy over time. If you want more details, I can provide them upon request.

So this is Miles-slot. Whale doesn't have any reads on him, good or bad, which is why I feel like there is no reason to assume they would be buddies in any scenario.
Miles is also the one currently driving the Whale-investigation, so I feel good about them really being on different sides of the fence.
Also worthy to note at this point: in the scenario where Whale is scum, he either included his buddy in the easier, more clear reads (making it 100% Perse), or tries to give himself an easier out here.
If he is about to still mention his scumbuddy and provide reads, but doesn't feel 100% confident in doing so, that last sentence would be a great excuse for lacking upfront opinions.

WhyMafia (?Maf):

My read on him is actually slight scum. He's been a bit more active than some of my other scum reads though, so I'd put him in that active mafia role a little bit more. Now that being said, active mafia I would still expect to stand a bit more off into the corner, but will pipe up every now and again to say something. The catch is in that something, and I feel like whenever they would say something, it would always be at an arms distance so as to not give out free ammunition that can be used against them later. Check back at ?Maf's posts, and I don't feel like very many of them are actually saying anything either. He either pushes off his opinions as "just theory" which gives him deniability, or says that his reads are the same as someone else's, which also provides room for doubt should something not turn his way in the future. He blames it on a scummy tone that he just naturally has, but even that is putting his bad behavior on something that is "outside of his realm of control". I see it as him just saying, "Sorry if I seem scummy guys, it's just who I am! Take it or leave it I guess..." This is my biggest scum read other than Cankles. If I could double vote for them both I would, but for now I'm not sure enough to really vote for him and the opportunity is perfect to place some pressure on my other big scum read.

Question for you: What do you think of me?

Here I found most value in my "research". Because Whale basically confirms the biggest reasons I had for scumreading WhyMafia. He feels like a "natural scum" who says his tone is just off, always gets pinned scum etc. But what I found interesting is that Whale states his case on WhyMafia so that he seems like Whales biggest scumread. Yet he votes for Cankles (me). Miles already pointed out how Whale dropped his case for my slot, so I'm not gonna repeat that. He also doesn't have a good question for his second big scumread, shouldn't he try to make WhyMafia speak and give some hard hitting questions?
So then what do we have here?
Scenario A: Whale is scum, WhyMafia is scum. So this would be called distancing, right? And if we really stop to think about it, this is exactly what he would want to do.
Say nothing positive about WhyMafia,

but don't vote him

.
Scenario B: Whale is scum, WhyMafia isn't. This would be Whale preparing his secondary wagon should Cankles survive the lynch, right? Voting towards the likely new wagon, but keeping his actions open for later.

I'm sort of leaning towards scenario B now, because I don't think Whale would be bussing his partner so eagerly D2. Unless it's a tactic WhyMafia discussed with him at night? Whale found his confidence quite suddenly..

Maybe it's a bit of a stretch. So yet again, I sort of see WhyMafia and Whale on different sides of a fence, the same way I see Whale and Miles.

Fykus (Fykus, sorry you don't a cool nickname, your name is short enough already!):

I'm gonna be honest you're another offender of the whole post without saying anything important thing, but I like that you have a townread on Peri, I like that you see soemthing wrong with Cankles, and I like how you responded to being in L-1. Neutral to town from you, but I would really like to see more.

Question: What do you think of a ?Maf and Cankles team?

This is a point I'll have to give to Whale: he said he townread Fykus and didn't take part in the wagon that got him lynched. Which would mean that his partner PROBABLY did.
And if I take that list and just paste it here, it says: PersephoneSidekick, King Cankles, Miles Edgeworth, RadiantCowbells, mhsmith0.
Three are confirmed town (myself to me, obv), and the other two are Perse (read my thoughts above) and Miles (read my thoughts above).
This actually warms my gut feeling of Perse potentially being a very GOOD scumplayer.

Cira24 (Cira) and MHSmith0 (MHS)

:

I'm putting you guys together because I have a general town read for you as it stands. I think a lot of that stuff at the beginning was mostly theatrics, and everything else was mostly town just looking for scum and coming up empty both ways. Cira has been a bit quiet as of late, but I think he said at some point it was IRL stuff getting in the way so that's fine as long as he makes up for it. Also, MHS has just been probing pretty well I think from what I can tell.

Questions for both of you: Analyze this post and tell me what you think.

This doesn't give me much, except that Whale townread Cira, now Wheme, who has been a confusing case for me so far in this game. Nothing much to comment here.

[UnaBombaH]

Yeah I dug through some meta. Stuff that I thought was outside of his scum range wasn't, and his town game is way better than this.

VOTE: WhyMafia

DOVAHKIIN DRAGONBORN

THIS IS L-1, PLEASE DON'T HAMMER WITHOUT DECLARING INTENT AND GETTING ACCEPTANCE FROM THE REST OF US.

I guess this is RC being RC?

[RadiantCowbells]

I guess this is you being scumpartners with WhyMafia

[RadiantCowbells]

Never reaching the end~
Letters I've written~
Never meaning to send~

[UnaBombaH]

I guess this is you being scumpartners with WhyMafia

Oh no, I slipped??

I want at least one good post more from him before we end the day.
I'm also interested in Miles case on Whale.

I'm not in a hurry to go to sleep.

[WhemeStar]

I want at least one good post more from him before we end the day

Why

[UnaBombaH]

Never reaching the end~
Letters I've written~
Never meaning to send~

Also, I don't recognize the lyrics you sometimes use.. what kind of music do you listen to?

[UnaBombaH]

I want at least one good post more from him before we end the day

Why

I want to lynch you so badly for posting that.
Maybe give us some content before going back to lurking?

[RadiantCowbells]

Never reaching the end~
Letters I've written~
Never meaning to send~

Also, I don't recognize the lyrics you sometimes use.. what kind of music do you listen to?

That was Nights in White Satin by the moody blues. Not my favourite song, it just happened to get there.

I am currently listening to The Police. I listen to a lot of rock, alternative, some metal, some pop, some rap, idk pretty much everything.

Some of my favourite bands are Queen, REM, and Imagine Dragons.

[UnaBombaH]

Never reaching the end~
Letters I've written~
Never meaning to send~

Also, I don't recognize the lyrics you sometimes use.. what kind of music do you listen to?

That was Nights in White Satin by the moody blues. Not my favourite song, it just happened to get there.

I am currently listening to The Police. I listen to a lot of rock, alternative, some metal, some pop, some rap, idk pretty much everything.

Some of my favourite bands are Queen, REM, and Imagine Dragons.

Which hit you more, great lyrics or melodies?
I listen to pretty much everything nowadays too, but I really love finnish folk metal and melodic death metal. There you can find the combination of lyrics and melodies that pretty much only classic rock has offered me elsewhere.

[RadiantCowbells]

Usually melodies? Metal wise I'm super partial to Luca Turili

[WhaleBarnicle]

Miles, I haven't forgotten about you. Driving back from a weekend trip now and will address your concerns later tonight. It looks like I missed a lot though so UNVOTE: All just in case.

[RadiantCowbells]

NO U PUT THAT VOTE DOWN U HECKIT

[UnaBombaH]

I got you covered.

VOTE: WhyMafia

Now, I get to see what my favorite suspects do when given the power to end the day..

Also, this is back to L-1, don't hammer without declaring intent. Your moves Whale/Perse.

[fferyllt]

...and