Newbie 1806 - The Ffery Garden: GAME OVER!


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Post Post #675 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:57 pm

Post by WhaleBarnicle »

In post 669, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 664, WhaleBarnicle wrote:Are any of these proof that he's scum, or just an ineffectual town? Now of course, these actions DO seem like it would be more likely for scum than they would be for town, but this all just seems SO BAD for scum to do. Even someone totally inexperienced in this game would realize that these sorts of things are just making them asking to get lynched. This is why I feel like this read is weak; it's picking off the low hanging fruit and calling them obvious.
Is too scummy to be scum a thing though? Isn't that most of our basis on the scum read on Canckles?
To some extent, but to be honest his replacement isn't helping the case much at all.
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Post Post #676 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:00 pm

Post by WhaleBarnicle »

In post 644, PersephoneSidekick wrote:People keep using "he" for me in posts and it's very distracting. It's weird; everybody got it right on day 1. Is it the obviously male lion in my avatar?
Well this is awkward. Sorry :eek: :lol: :lol:
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Post Post #677 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:02 pm

Post by UnaBombaH »

OK, many smaller quotes coming soon, I love that people have been posting more.
I don't like the way people read my posts, but that is something I have to live with, I guess.
To me the tables seems more set now, though.

Perses last posts strike me as "panic-y", in the sense that SHE ;) is trying very very hard to start a wagon on me.
And what always pets me the wrong way, is when it happens during the time I'm sleeping.
Which is actually why I always make it a point to place my accusations before going off, and then making it clear for everyone I'm going offline for many hours.
In this specific case I think Perse became more aggressive, and tried to quickly find wheels for her wagon. Not maybe being as hopeful as to get a quick lynch, but definitely would've wanted for me to wake up to a L-1 or something? :!:
In post 611, PersephoneSidekick wrote: Second thought, if Una's "" are me and Whale why is he voting WhyMafia? Especially so soon after panicking about the possibility? I can easily see him as playing a dangerous distancing game, hoping to switch to Whale later with all the arguments presented in . If Whale is town I actually think Una/Why is pretty likely. Or just Una; it could just be that Una doesn't care much who is lynched out of me, Whale and Why. Which leaves Wheme or Whale as his partner. Since Wheme doesn't make sense as a bussing, it would have to be Una/Miles.
Because admittedly, I felt a bit lost when RC switched his vote to me, after I myself had become fairly certain WhyMafia was scum and RC had sniffed him out before anyone else.
I trusted RC's judgement, so when he switched his vote for me, I had to do some brain-racking, and come up with my alternative scenarios.
And I feel better after doing that, because now I have a more clear view on why Perse could be scum even if WhyMafia isn't. Whale redeemed himself a lot in my eyes with his comeback posts, going to write him next.
In post 634, PersephoneSidekick wrote: Una, for the reasons I gave in . Tldr is that his page 24 is scummy as hell.
So..what reasons did you give? Saying my page 24 is scummy as hell..why?
Because I actually posted and tried to find reasoning in this game?
You gave 0 actual gameplay reasons, saying someones "page is scummy" is the easiest out.
I challenge you to point out actual gameplay pattern I have in your eyes, that drives a scum-wincon.
If you find "my angle", I will try to defend a case, until you do, I can't take your accusations seriously.
In post 651, PersephoneSidekick wrote:Anyway. Whale, are you up for lynching Una/Cankles with me?
Classy. :lol: If this wasn't you trying to quickly rally up a wagon, I don't know what is.
It's like you went knocking on doors where you knew someone who has just had his car stolen, offering free bus tickets.
In post 657, PersephoneSidekick wrote:Look, you said yourself that Una was Why's most likely scumpartner. Doesn't that still give you a good chance?
The one part I'm not sure of, is whether this means you might be ready to bus WhyMafia today, to "keep yourself clean".
If RC and I get WhyMafia lynched and he is your scumbuddy, you would still try to wagon me tomorrow.
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Post Post #678 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:09 pm

Post by WhaleBarnicle »

What's going to happen if we mislynch today?
We have 7, takes 4 to lynch.
We go down to 6
Mafia kills town in night
We go down to 5, takes 3 to lynch. In that 5, there would be 2 mafia, so all three town would have to agree to even have the chance of a win. I don't like the sound of this.

I know we all have our thoughts on players here, but with how close to a knife's edge we are we all need to be really, REALLY careful about who we lynch today. Everyone (even you RadCow) needs to look at this with fresh eyes again and make sure we aren't barking up the wrong tree.

I'm going to bed for tonight, and tomorrow after I think a little bit more I'll probably place my vote. If the day ends before I can and I die at night, it's been fun guys.
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Post Post #679 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:09 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 678, WhaleBarnicle wrote:What's going to happen if we mislynch today?
We have 7, takes 4 to lynch.
We go down to 6
Mafia kills town in night
We go down to 5, takes 3 to lynch. In that 5, there would be 2 mafia, so all three town would have to agree to even have the chance of a win. I don't like the sound of this.

I know we all have our thoughts on players here, but with how close to a knife's edge we are we all need to be really, REALLY careful about who we lynch today. Everyone (even you RadCow) needs to look at this with fresh eyes again and make sure we aren't barking up the wrong tree.

I'm going to bed for tonight, and tomorrow after I think a little bit more I'll probably place my vote. If the day ends before I can and I die at night, it's been fun guys.
I have done my resets. My vote is final.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #680 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:12 pm

Post by WhaleBarnicle »

Mind you if we do get this right, tomorrow we have 5 alive with only 1 mafia and 4 town (3 votes to lynch). Then, even if we mislynch we have some protection with an extra day and can still in theory pull a win.

Just some motivation for everyone!
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Post Post #681 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:17 pm

Post by WhemeStar »

Voteee why mafiaaa
Im a dog that quacks
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Post Post #682 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:18 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Like I want to be more helpful but I can't put words to a lot of what I'm seeing besides gut.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #683 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:20 pm

Post by PersephoneSidekick »

In post 677, UnaBombaH wrote:OK, many smaller quotes coming soon, I love that people have been posting more.
I don't like the way people read my posts, but that is something I have to live with, I guess.
To me the tables seems more set now, though.

Perses last posts strike me as "panic-y", in the sense that SHE ;) is trying very very hard to start a wagon on me.
And what always pets me the wrong way, is when it happens during the time I'm sleeping.
Which is actually why I always make it a point to place my accusations before going off, and then making it clear for everyone I'm going offline for many hours.
In this specific case I think Perse became more aggressive, and tried to quickly find wheels for her wagon. Not maybe being as hopeful as to get a quick lynch, but definitely would've wanted for me to wake up to a L-1 or something? :!:
In post 611, PersephoneSidekick wrote: Second thought, if Una's "" are me and Whale why is he voting WhyMafia? Especially so soon after panicking about the possibility? I can easily see him as playing a dangerous distancing game, hoping to switch to Whale later with all the arguments presented in . If Whale is town I actually think Una/Why is pretty likely. Or just Una; it could just be that Una doesn't care much who is lynched out of me, Whale and Why. Which leaves Wheme or Whale as his partner. Since Wheme doesn't make sense as a bussing, it would have to be Una/Miles.
Because admittedly, I felt a bit lost when RC switched his vote to me, after I myself had become fairly certain WhyMafia was scum and RC had sniffed him out before anyone else.
I trusted RC's judgement, so when he switched his vote for me, I had to do some brain-racking, and come up with my alternative scenarios.
And I feel better after doing that, because now I have a more clear view on why Perse could be scum even if WhyMafia isn't. Whale redeemed himself a lot in my eyes with his comeback posts, going to write him next.
In post 634, PersephoneSidekick wrote: Una, for the reasons I gave in . Tldr is that his page 24 is scummy as hell.
So..what reasons did you give? Saying my page 24 is scummy as hell..why?
Because I actually posted and tried to find reasoning in this game?
You gave 0 actual gameplay reasons, saying someones "page is scummy" is the easiest out.
I challenge you to point out actual gameplay pattern I have in your eyes, that drives a scum-wincon.
If you find "my angle", I will try to defend a case, until you do, I can't take your accusations seriously.
In post 651, PersephoneSidekick wrote:Anyway. Whale, are you up for lynching Una/Cankles with me?
Classy. :lol: If this wasn't you trying to quickly rally up a wagon, I don't know what is.
It's like you went knocking on doors where you knew someone who has just had his car stolen, offering free bus tickets.
In post 657, PersephoneSidekick wrote:Look, you said yourself that Una was Why's most likely scumpartner. Doesn't that still give you a good chance?
The one part I'm not sure of, is whether this means you might be ready to bus WhyMafia today, to "keep yourself clean".
If RC and I get WhyMafia lynched and he is your scumbuddy, you would still try to wagon me tomorrow.
Because you jumped so hard onto the idea of accusing Whale with a string of really terrible and forced arguments. Probably to defend WhyMafia, because you were afraid that RC was making too much progress.

And yeah, I'm pushing you kind of frantically. I finally feel like I have the beginnings of a clue whats going on and tons of people are online at once and I'm excited to get something done already. I should probably calm down because we have 6 days left. But my health has also been terrible and I'm kind of viscerally scared I won't have a clear enough head to contribute again before deadline.
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Post Post #684 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:26 pm

Post by UnaBombaH »

In post 675, WhaleBarnicle wrote: To some extent, but to be honest his replacement isn't helping the case much at all.
I'm sad you think I haven't helped my cause, but I hope I get to help the overall game state before I go :) I'll try to quote you somewhat on your latest posts, but there was so much I'm gonna miss something I liked anyway, so I'll just say that I REALLY liked your . Good comeback, if I may say so, and actually made me even more adamant on WhyMafia/Perse.
In post 637, WhaleBarnicle wrote:Also also, I'm past the point where RadCow already claimed to be a BP: has literally anyone considered the fact that was a lie? I know that another PR could claim right then and there to prove him wrong, but considering that the only other role that is possible in this setup is Doctor, I don't think that would actually happen.

If a doctor came forward and claimed, their power would literally be useless as they would undoubtedly be targeted in the night and killed. What good is that then unless doctors can indefinitely protect themselves in the night (can they?)?

I think RadCow is town, and I don't necessarily think he is lying about his PR, but I wonder why nobody has brought this up by this point. If it has and I haven't read it yet, sorry lol
This is something we should not discuss until D3, I think. Go see my ISO, you are not the only one who thought of it. All I'm asking is that we do not poke this one thing yet, for it
might
solve the game N2/D3.

I'm not really sure what to feel about this. I feel like thinking about this possibility makes you either Town really using logic and taking nothing for granted (appreciated), or you would be scum for wanting to point this chance out now, but I don't want to write that scenario up now. Scum can come up with it themselves, I have already gone through this scenario in my head for days, and I think we win that trade anyways.
In post 661, WhaleBarnicle wrote:All these posts seem really forced to me. Every single one of them talks as through the perspective of town. Lots of "we as town" and "from a VT perspective" type of stuff. Town doesnt really talk like this, and it's a nice way to potentially frame what someone might think when they are reading this post. Sort of like some sort of subliminal suggestion almost? I know people always say they are town, but this seems different and I think raises some suspicion. Thoughts ne1?
Many players (as Town or scum) might not write like this, but I do. I always do. I'm a salesman/store manager in real life, so every day is full of bargaining and sales tactics for me. When I play Mafia, I never try to sell myself. I try to PROVE my points, I try to deduce outcomes. I feel like in this textbased format it might be my downfall, but I honestly write like this because I want to keep my scenarios honest.
If you ever see me writing "X is scum, mark my words, no doubt about it", I'm either very sure, or I have lost my cool for whatever reason.
Until that point, I will give each scenario a flavor of "IF X is scum, then..."
You already called me scummy in one post for me being unsure or safe or whatever, but that is just how I write.
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Post Post #685 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:27 pm

Post by PersephoneSidekick »

Wait, I never got around to voting. VOTE: UnaBombaH
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Post Post #686 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:47 pm

Post by UnaBombaH »

In post 683, PersephoneSidekick wrote:Because you jumped so hard onto the idea of accusing Whale with a string of really terrible and forced arguments. Probably to defend WhyMafia, because you were afraid that RC was making too much progress.

And yeah, I'm pushing you kind of frantically. I finally feel like I have the beginnings of a clue whats going on and tons of people are online at once and I'm excited to get something done already. I should probably calm down because we have 6 days left. But my health has also been terrible and I'm kind of viscerally scared I won't have a clear enough head to contribute again before deadline.
NOT GAME RELATED SPOILER, DIRECTED AT PERSE:
Spoiler:
I hope your health gets better. No idea what you are going through, but I hope you're getting enjoyment out of this game. I have had my best friend (whom I love as much as my wife), my step-dad and my grandparents all be at the hospital within short time spans from each other, and they all ranged from potential Crohns disease/tumor to brain aneurysm to critical pleural effusion. I got so exhausted from all of that mixed with work I was in a car accident in the middle of a clear day. March 2017 was one of the worst months of my life..and now I'm rolling high, and I have things to look forward to in life.
I hope you get better.


Ok, back to game. My post about Whale, be it very long, was pretty much to just do something. Get something rolling. Also to clear my own thoughts.
When I decide I want to try and force a case against someone, either of two happens: I notice how easy it actually is (susp. building) or I realize how hard and forced it is (actually clears the susp. in my mind a little, but I still post it to share content.)
It seems people are back to posting, so I probably won't need to do a forced case anytime soon, but I encourage everyone to try it.
Notice here:
I never voted for Whale because I wasn't sure of his scummyness at all.
I was just trying to build my own way of scumhunting, and to create discussion.
Like said before, if anyone of you are bored, I challenge you to make a similar post about my slot.
Cankles seemed like a very nervous newbie, and while I'm a noob myself, I don't panic like he did.
Nor do I like to play lurky like he did.
When I'm VT, I march to the front to shout and take aggro.
I'd love to be NK'd for the team to win, but I'd hate to be lynched.
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Post Post #687 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:52 pm

Post by UnaBombaH »

I'd also like to point out one thing: lynching me wouldn't open up the game for Town in any way.
You would lynch a VT, and I doubt my "accomplice" could be anyone except WhyMafia. (?) So we go to D3 wondering how WhyMafia is still alive, and RC still wanting to lynch him.

I don't see a scenario where WhyMafia gets NK'd, the same way I don't see Wheme NK'd EVER.
Those are the two candidates a scum would want to take to LyLo, in the scenario where either or both of them isn't scum.

Think about that before starting another wagon and flailing more.
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Post Post #688 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:01 pm

Post by PersephoneSidekick »

Thank you so much, Una! I hope I feel better too :p I really am getting enjoyment out of the game though, especially tonight.
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Post Post #689 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:18 pm

Post by fferyllt »

Vote Count 2.9
Image

Angel Trumpets varie in color from the palest pastels to almost strident tropical shades. Among the attributes they share is an incredibly sweet fragrance. The palest varietals are perfect for a moon garden.


WhyMafia
(2): RadiantCowbells, UnaBombaH
UnaBombaH
(2): WhemeStar, PersephoneSidekick

Not Voting
(3): WhaleBarnicle, Miles Edgeworth, WhyMafia

Deadline: July 23 Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2017-07-22 21:00:00)

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- :]
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.

On the path to becoming yourself, you'll need to choose alignment over validation from others, peace over addictive chaos, and being misunderstood over false acceptance. --TheHolisticPsychologist
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Post Post #690 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:28 pm

Post by PersephoneSidekick »

In post 687, UnaBombaH wrote:I'd also like to point out one thing: lynching me wouldn't open up the game for Town in any way.
You would lynch a VT, and I doubt my "accomplice" could be anyone except WhyMafia. (?) So we go to D3 wondering how WhyMafia is still alive, and RC still wanting to lynch him.

I don't see a scenario where WhyMafia gets NK'd, the same way I don't see Wheme NK'd EVER.
Those are the two candidates a scum would want to take to LyLo, in the scenario where either or both of them isn't scum.

Think about that before starting another wagon and flailing more.
You're argument is that town!WhyMafia and town!Wheme are the least bad people to mislynch today because they'd probably get lynched tomorrow anyway?

I agree that if we don't lynch WhyMafia today then we probably will tomorrow. RC will vote for him and then either the mafia will quickhammer or his guilt will be proven by the fact that they didn't. Which means that if WhyMafia is innocent we only get one chance basically.

So we are picking whether to lynch a non-WhyMafia person today or tomorrow. If we do it today we have 5 people to guess among. If we do it tomorrow we will have only 4. Since RC is bulletproof, mafia can't help but kill a possible suspect, and everybody has serious accusations against them at this point other than RC.

So even if WhyMafia is innocent, mislynching him is inevitable and it's better if it happens today than tomorrow? Is that the argument?
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Post Post #691 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:29 pm

Post by PersephoneSidekick »

It looks like everybody is going to bed. They probably have the right idea.

I don't think I'll have much time at all tomorrow, but I'll try to keep up with the thread as best I can. i should have time on tuesday and wednesday, but thursday and friday are sort of tight too. I kind of hope we finish the day before then tbh, but I do have all of saturday potentially free if it comes down to it.

Good night everybody.
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Post Post #692 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:04 pm

Post by UnaBombaH »

In post 690, PersephoneSidekick wrote:
You're argument is that town!WhyMafia and town!Wheme are the least bad people to mislynch today because they'd probably get lynched tomorrow anyway?

I agree that if we don't lynch WhyMafia today then we probably will tomorrow. RC will vote for him and then either the mafia will quickhammer or his guilt will be proven by the fact that they didn't. Which means that if WhyMafia is innocent we only get one chance basically.

So we are picking whether to lynch a non-WhyMafia person today or tomorrow. If we do it today we have 5 people to guess among. If we do it tomorrow we will have only 4. Since RC is bulletproof, mafia can't help but kill a possible suspect, and everybody has serious accusations against them at this point other than RC.

So even if WhyMafia is innocent, mislynching him is inevitable and it's better if it happens today than tomorrow? Is that the argument?
I'm iffy to just say "yes", so I'll drag it out a bit more. I hope people really hear me out (and I know this will grind someone the wrong way, especially the people I say we should lynch, but try to understand the point):

So lets say we lynch ANYONE except WhyMafia/Whemestar.
(and btw, I would still lynch Wheme because I haven't seen ANY gamesolving from him, but I'm currently trusting both, my own initial reads and RC, on WhyMafia. I also dislike the idea of WhyMafia/Wheme-team. Feels not right.)

We might find a surprising scum, but since the 3rd potential lynch outside of those two is seemingly me, we won't.
So we lose a townie, and scum gets a NK.

D3 starts with (in my mind) RC-Wheme-WhyMafia-Perse +Whale/Miles. (no matter who we lynch, Wheme/WhyMafia/Me should be kept alive from scum perspective, I think. We are the "easy scums" to point out.)
Now at this point, we already have a 2-in a row-LyLo-situation.
RC would most likely(?) rage at how far WhyMafia has gotten. Alternatively we would have had some shenanigans ending D2 with someone making susp. quickhammer or something, and that derails the attention yet again.
But the problem becomes then, we need a right lynch or we lose already. No more gut feelings. Who would be the OBVIOUS choice at this point? Because it would sort of have to be obvious at that point.
Because at that point nothing is easier for scum, than to stop providing good content. They can just tunnel whoever they have "suspected" earlier, and not provide any reads/opinions on the rest. Which leads to 2v2 votes and RC holding the hammer?
And even if that is not the situation, scum can just hop onto one momentarily misplaced vote and win the game.
Dragging on the scenario any longer doesn't seem reasonable to me, but the point is that WhyMafia "should" be the lynch every day, yet he might not be. Which creates a twisted scenario for our BP - the earliest scumread, or possibly a "townlike"?
It all becomes WIFOM at that point, because either scum picks a goody two-shoes to f3 as in "he is the mastermind who knows you will lynch me", or the scummier looking player IS SPEAKING THE TRUTH.

Now lets say we lynch WhyMafia and somehow he flips town.
At this point Wheme becomes obv. scum. (atleast to me) I assume there are others who might not see Wheme/WhyMafia as a team, but have to see Whemes contribution to the game is nearing 0.
And at this point his partner would have to be either Perse/Miles/Whale, simply because of how Wheme has played.
He has been the confuser, the disruptor, and someone more structured and "smart-y" has been guiding the game. And that person would most likely be found in his "wagon" (which wasn't much when I re-checked it), which means it would be..Perse.

So currently the way I see the game, the remaining three lynches would be WhyMafia->Perse->Wheme(prob. not needed), or in an another universe Wheme->Perse->WhyMafia(prob. not needed).
I'm going to trust Whale for now, I think his comeback to Miles accusing him was solid. He read my points too, and seemed genuine. He became my highest townread with those posts.
I'm reserving the smallest of doubts for Miles, basically I do townread him. But in the scenario where HE is scum, I think the only way we get him to come out, is if he lives to final day with RC and a one of the above. And at that point it's still going to be hard to catch someone like him (don't get confused, not saying he is scum).
I'm just automatically suspicious of someone who seems the towniest to me, because a good scumplayer would be thriving towards that.

And by that, we arrive to you Perse. Yes, writing directly to you.
You have managed to get a townread from most of the players (if not everyone), and that initially made me notice you outside of townleaning.
You have become my #2 suspect by proxy of other players - you are "the accomplice" in most all of my scenarios.
Which in a weird way makes you my favorite suspect.
You have, however played your slot well, no matter what the alignment.
If you are scum, you have played so well, that you have not been wagoned once, and yet have remained more or less active all the time.
In a similar note, if you are town, I am the only one stupid enough to seriously suspect you..! :lol:
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Post Post #693 (ISO) » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:14 am

Post by UnaBombaH »

I've been re-reading this game for the past ~4 hours and trying to make sense of other possibilities out of WhyMafia->Perse->Wheme(?).
These extractions are from Miles post before Whale made his big posts.
In post 624, Miles Edgeworth wrote:
In post 622, RadiantCowbells wrote:Should I never update my reads, never change my reads, deathtunnel whoever my first scumread is until they get lynched?
Hell no you shouldn't.

You just went from apparently not caring anymore about WhyMafia and wanting to lynch Cankles's slot, to wanting to kill WhyMafia today.
I'm not trying to meatride RC (any more than I already have), but I thought it obvious that he is playing his game all the time, no matter what his vote says at the moment.
He swapped to me, not only because I apparently am somewhat scummy-read to most of you, but also because RC is looking for reactions.
Not just from me, but from my potential scumbuddy.
In post 624, Miles Edgeworth wrote: And look, in fairness to you, it's not
just
you. Peri over there is waffling like moss in a breeze. The rest of the town isn't saying anything, whether they're posting or not. It's just frustrating that nobody seems to know what they want to do, but nobody is also willing to take me up on my vote.
MILES:
About this...frustration(?) of yours,
where are you now?
How do you see Wheme currently?
And if I may ask, who are your top three townreads outside of RC, and why?

You seemed so 100% certain of Whale (or maybe you were also just looking for a wagon to pressure Whale to speak, IDK), but you've said that his post made you townlean him more.
I'm honestly never 100% sure about my own reads, the only thing I trust is logic/wincon-hunting, and both are hard to use to their maximum potential with this many players still around.
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Post Post #694 (ISO) » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:09 am

Post by UnaBombaH »

I've read everyones ISOs from this game separately now too, and my trifecta still stays the same.
If my feelings on WhyMafia-Perse -team weren't so strong for now, I'd still be wanting to vote Wheme.
Look at how Wheme/Perse have swapped their votes during the game, and why. Look at how they try to persuade people to jump on wagons.
And neither had any REAL pressure on themselves that would merit "self-defence" as reason.
See how their type of behaviour indirectly might have lead to the Fykus lynch, as he was ready to swap his vote anywhere to save his own hide. And he ended up being RC's #2 read after WhyMafia, and got lynched.
Similarly
I feel like Cankles was just so helplessly flailing to keep himself alive, and you guys still talk about his wagon. It turned the other way D1, but I honestly might've scumread him(me?) too if I had been on another slot watching it unfold. Can't say for sure.
But I can't understand the arguments for returning to it.

If you can't see me sincerely trying to game solve with what I write, you won't see it at any point.


Tossing your votes around as VT...ech.
RC has the luxurious position to play like that as BP and conf. town, so its sort of a different thing with him.
I know many players think that since vote is VT's weapon, you should use it as much as possible, but I think you should point more than stab. Because when you do, it should stick. And if it doesn't, there should be a wound or scar to remember.
It's normal to change your opinion when someone makes a good defence, like Whale did, but when you change your OWN READS ON SOMEONE, just because its good to suddenly vote them, it screams opportunism/scummyness.

Now I can see how someone might try to turn this on me, so I'll answer before you ask (gawd I'm bored):
I didn't want to place my vote anywhere at one point, because I was losing trust in my case and/or I didn't want to hammer WhyMafia (or anyone else for that matter) yet.
And so it looked like I was just flailing around, trying to build a case on Whale. Well, I admitted above, I was just trying to find SOMETHING to write, and also poke at Miles theory on him.
At no point was he very high on my scum-radar, I was mainly intrigued by the case Miles had built.
So I waited for a moment to cast my vote on my original suspect, without causing a day-end. Now someone might say THAT is opportunism, but its more about positioning yourself differently with your vote, based on the timing.
This might be mainly a scum-tactic, but I think RC is using this proficiently as Town too.
So what did I gain from this circling around?
Now two of my suspects are voting for me, and I have my vote where I want it (and probably keep it).

I'm still waiting on a defendable case from Perse/Wheme, and I have given you guys content to evaluate. Now I don't need you to evaluate whether my text has "townish or scummish -flavor", but tell me where you think my arguments are flawed, and discuss it out loud. That is how I read whether people are scum or not. You see, scum pretty much HAS to lie about scenarios involving their own win-con, otherwise they would admit to being scum.
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Post Post #695 (ISO) » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:26 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I've been rather confbiasy in the past so I want to try to make a case for Whymafia so other people can independently judge it's merits.

Give me a bit before we go anywhere.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #696 (ISO) » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:43 am

Post by UnaBombaH »

In post 695, RadiantCowbells wrote:I've been rather confbiasy in the past so I want to try to make a case for Whymafia so other people can independently judge it's merits.

Give me a bit before we go anywhere.
That might actually be great.

I, on the other hand, am going to sleep now. One full day of work before starting my vacation.

So gonna be away for ~8 hours, hopefully waking up to nearly as much content as I did today! :)
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Post Post #697 (ISO) » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:34 am

Post by WhaleBarnicle »

In post 695, RadiantCowbells wrote:I've been rather confbiasy in the past so I want to try to make a case for Whymafia so other people can independently judge it's merits.

Give me a bit before we go anywhere.
Awh and just when I was about to put him at L-1. I'll check back around 11pm EST
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Post Post #698 (ISO) » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:37 am

Post by WhyMafia »

I'm starting to get cold feet on my town read on pers
Need to re-read her ISO
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Post Post #699 (ISO) » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:38 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Whatever just do it I don't have the energy.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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