Newbie 1816 (Game Over)

[Tuberkulos]

Got prodded. Will post within 24 hours.

[SIV36]

Right now I don't really have a strong read on anyone. Llamafluff seems to be the most town, and to make the most sense generally as well ......[snip]...... SIV36 seems the most scummy to me. That's due to him changing his mind too easily, specifically: flipping between reading Tuberkulos as scum to reading them as scumhunting. Also, saying mafia tend to be uncomfortable early then agreeing with Llamafluff when he said they're not. I don't like him saying we've got plenty of time either, I am also concerned with the slow progression of this game.

VOTE: SIV36

1. Changing my mind too easily:
To me, the game is just leaving the beginning stage. My mind hasn't even been 'set' on anything thus far. I'm barely just getting a feel for the players here yet.

2. Me flipping between reading Tuberkulos as scum to scumhunting. / Agreeing with Llamafluff:
When I understand that what I said is incorrect, I'll admit it. First, I was just pointing out that tube 'stood out' to me. Later, I pointed out that I think he could be just scum-hunting. I changed my mind, thoughts are dynamic, ideas are churning as time goes on.

3. We

do

have time! Who here thinks that we are still going to be RVS on august 21? Unless....what if I'm mafia, and I want everyone to think I'm town because I try to convince people that I want info? A real town could suggest this in a natural town way, hmm, let's say on page 5 and no-one really has made much contributive posts. But Llama was a little over the top dramatic about it three quarters of the way down on page one. Could be a personality quirk of his, but still too non-organic for me.

Clockwork, what about Llama is making so much sense for you?

[Tuberkulos]

My heart being 2% set on the side of scummy, then switching to 2% on maybe, or maybe not. I doubt I barely could distinguish even my own change of heart. I'm waiting for more action. I'm stating observations as they come to mind.

LlamaFluff disagreed that every mafia player would always gets twitchy in the RVS in every single game. Instead of just leaving his comment adrift with no response, I decided to state that I don't believe his opinion is wrong.

Tuber, do you not agree with what Llamafluff stated?

Or more seriously, how scummy do you find clockworkgirl thus far?

What I definitely don't agree with, or at least don't recognize myself, is that I have been twitchy as both of you have implied. At least you and LlamaFluff didn't contest it.

I agree with some of what LlamaFluff said here:

I would disagree with that statement, I think its more of a personality tell than anything else. Certain players regardless of alignment are more twitchy in early stages. Same "uncomfortableness" tends to apply to power roles as well. I think things like hypocrisy, excessively reaching logic, or things to that extent are the best things to start with.

But I don't agree with this:

The more you give reasons behind what you are doing, the better people can read you. If you are town, you want to be as open of a book as possible for the most part. As scum, it helps if you keep enough of your reads somewhat tucked away such that you have more wiggle room later in the game to have "reads" match up to what is most beneficial for you at that point in the game.

I believe it can be tactically smart as town as well to have reads tucked away and not always as an "open book".

I do find clockworkgirl scummy. Instead of recognizing that she might have not been completely coherent she is defending her every action which I don't like in this case.

Personally I don't find LlamaFluff particularly townie. He is an IC, so when it comes to game mechanics and such, he will be trying to educate us on the game and provide with helpful information to all players. However, that does not tell us anything about his alignment.

[SIV36]

What I definitely don't agree with, or at least don't recognize myself, is that I have been twitchy as both of you have implied.

It was RVS, a stage where people start completely unserious and everyone has nothing to work with. You stood out because you completely skipped it and went right into intensive questioning towards clockwork. I'm looking for things that don't make sense to me, and although that doesn't make me confirm you as the mafia, it was something that

could

have something to do with it.

But I don't agree with this:

The more you give reasons behind what you are doing, the better people can read you. If you are town, you want to be as open of a book as possible for the most part. As scum, it helps if you keep enough of your reads somewhat tucked away such that you have more wiggle room later in the game to have "reads" match up to what is most beneficial for you at that point in the game.

I believe it can be tactically smart as town as well to have reads tucked away and not always as an "open book".

I'm sure it's a matter of personal preference, and I'm definitely not an expert in any matter here, but I tend towards the open book method. In my experience, if I keep reads or strategies to myself, they can't be scrutinized if they are flawed, and they halt any progression from happening. Even with making it known what I'm looking for, interesting results could develop as I see who is really avoiding those things, or taking my 'tips' a little too seriously. This works for me because I never run out of ideas, but I often make a few flawed ones. Also, someone could be noticing that I'm keeping

something

to myself and without not really knowing what, take it as alignment indicative.

I do find clockworkgirl scummy. Instead of recognizing that she might have not been completely coherent she is defending her every action which I don't like in this case.

For much different reasons, I'm considering her as mafia too. But if people get the idea that they should never defend themselves, then this is going to be a very hard game to catch scum. Nobody will ever answer inquiries because answering and defending one's self is considered scummy.

I'm suspicious of her because of her reasoning to vote me. I guess to her, I'm scummy because I changed my mind. Iirc, I seen someone from another game make the same argument towards me and that person was a mafia. To me, it's a little bit of a far-reach.

[Eclipsed]

I do find clockworkgirl scummy. Instead of recognizing that she might have not been completely coherent she is defending her every action which I don't like in this case.

I agree with this, clockwork seems scummy due to the fact she is overly defensive, although this is still a hunch being it so early in the game. (I mentioned that I though she was scummy before btw)

All in all, Eclipsed start from null for me, despite being a replacing player.

Forgive me for not knowing much terminology, but null is neither mafia or townie, correct?

[Nexus]

[quote

Votecount 1.4:

clockworkgirl (2)

- JaeReed, Yooh

Eclipsed (1)

- SIV36

Llamafluff (1)

- Tuberkulos

In4Fun (1)

- Llamafluff

SIV36 (1)

- clockworkgirl

Not voting (5)

- Eclipsed, daRealDodo, In4Fun,

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. The deadline is at 3pm BST on Tuesday 22nd August 2017 ((expired on 2017-08-22 15:00:00)).

Eclipsed replaced Bhoysterous, and daRealDodo and Yooh are being prodded.

[SIV36]

Let's be friend, JaeReed.

Can I ask why you said this? At the specific moment you did, JaeReed had only made 2 very short, insignificant posts.

Llama feels town to me on a skim.

Out of the 9 players, why did you pick Llama? What made you decide on mentioning that Llama feels town?

[Eclipsed]

@SIV is your vote on me a carry-over from Bhoysterous?

[Yooh]

Prod received.

@Yooh: I was not aware of that. Thanks for letting me know and welcome to the game. Is your vote for me random or do you consider me to have behaved scummily and if so, what specifically?

Semiserious. You prefer to push content from someone who haven't post rather than someone who have posted is a little bit strange. If you voted to someone actively posting, you would get their reaction faster.

I do find clockworkgirl scummy. Instead of recognizing that she might have not been completely coherent she is defending her every action which I don't like in this case.

Why are you not voting her? There is a reserved seat for you in this wagon.

I'm suspicious of her because of her reasoning to vote me. I guess to her, I'm scummy because I changed my mind. Iirc, I seen someone from another game make the same argument towards me and that person was a mafia. To me, it's a little bit of a far-reach.

What is the reason you hold your vote? Maybe because you want to watch and see her reasoning first?

I agree with this, clockwork seems scummy due to the fact she is overly defensive, although this is still a hunch being it so early in the game. (I mentioned that I though she was scummy before btw)

Why is being defensive scummy?

Can I ask why you said this? At the specific moment you did, JaeReed had only made 2 very short, insignificant posts.

It is just me trying to buddying Jaereed for no reason. I'm expecting Jaereed's reaction to come along, but they (Jaereed's pronoun is they?) ignored it.

[SIV36]

@SIV is your vote on me a carry-over from Bhoysterous?

Yes. It was a silly random vote from when the game started. UNVOTE:

I'm suspicious of her because of her reasoning to vote me. I guess to her, I'm scummy because I changed my mind. Iirc, I seen someone from another game make the same argument towards me and that person was a mafia. To me, it's a little bit of a far-reach.

What is the reason you hold your vote? Maybe because you want to watch and see her reasoning first?

I'm assuming you mean not moving it from bhoysterous/Eclipsed? Yeah, I'm not moderately convinced she's the mafia yet. And yup, I do watch for any reaction or even no reaction and take note of it.

For instance, her getting pissed off and elaborating her reasoning might make me think I'm barking up the wrong tree. But of course, people are different and unique, and I can't anticipate reactions or predict them in detail. Pushing buttons and hopefully getting weird and interesting results.

It is just me trying to buddying Jaereed for no reason. I'm expecting Jaereed's reaction to come along, but they (Jaereed's pronoun is they?) ignored it.

I believe you are telling the truth here.

[JaeReed]

Out of the 9 players, why did you pick Llama? What made you decide on mentioning that Llama feels town?

That was the only person I had pings either way on my first impression. Honestly I really only mentioned it because blatant prod dodging with some mods doesn't reset the timer, so adding game related content to what was essentially a prod dodge makes it a post with content of some sort, as crappy as the content was.

This is a unique style of questioning though. What alignment relevant information did you hope to glean from those questions?

[JaeReed]

Howdy, new guy here, good luck and have fun. (ponders a bit why people are casting their votes early on)

This is hard for me to tell on whether it comes from a genuine complete newb place or a "I'm scum and feel uncomfortable in the early game" place.
I'd somewhat expect newbtown to react to RVS a bit differently somehow but I can't really words my feelings/the concept right now beyond that.

[JaeReed]

Spoiler:

@Clock - What type of information are you looking for? You note that this stage is based on reactions, so what is a reaction that would make you cast a serious vote? With me now five other people have posted.

I'm not totally sure really. This is literally my first time ever with this game so I'm sort of playing things by ear.
From my perspective as town at the start of the game any one of you has a 25% chance of being scum so I'm looking for anything to adjust that probability. Its early days yet and I've not really seen anything that's changed my mind one way or the other. If I had to pick someone for a serious vote I'd say Bhoysterous just because they've confirmed but haven't posted yet and that's the easiest way to deny town information. But, it's only a been a day so they're probably just busy and we should obviously not be seriously trying to lynch anyone yet.
As for saying exactly what reaction I'm looking for, that sort of gives the game away as I'd be telling scum what they need to fake to convince me.

VOTE: Bhoysterous

You say you haven't seen anything that would change your mind yet you cast a serious vote on Bhoysterous. Care to explain?

Also, how have JaeReed been a positive force in not denying town information while Bhoysterous have?

EBWOP:
What a I meant to ask with my last question was; how has JaeReed been a positive force in not denying town information while Bhoysterous has not been a positive force?

I'll try to proofread my own posts from now on.

This might be scum? "Why my partner instead of this other dude?" basically is the hypothesis I'm playing with here. I could be reading too much into it and it could just be town trying to get information flowing but it just seems like a really random pick to go me over like, dodo or siv at this stage? Especially given clockwork explained the vote in the post Tuber quotes.

[JaeReed]

I just read Llama's sig lol. FIW <3

[JaeReed]

Well, you also said this:

If I had to pick someone for a serious vote I'd say Bhoysterous just because they've confirmed but haven't posted yet and that's the easiest way to deny town information.

And went on doing this:

VOTE: Bhoysterous

So why isn't your vote on Bhoysterous serious?

Ehhhhnnn I'm reminded of Thor and House here in the nitpicky nature. Might be playstyle rather than AI.

[SIV36]

Out of the 9 players, why did you pick Llama? What made you decide on mentioning that Llama feels town?

That was the only person I had pings either way on my first impression. Honestly I really only mentioned it because blatant prod dodging with some mods doesn't reset the timer, so adding game related content to what was essentially a prod dodge makes it a post with content of some sort, as crappy as the content was.

This is a unique style of questioning though. What alignment relevant information did you hope to glean from those questions?

I believe that was your second post when you posted that Llama felt town, and was the only game-relevant thing you said at the time. It was really random to me, and it didn't ping me as something that I'd genuinely say. I tried putting myself in your shoes. I pretended to read up to that point and imagining what would make the first thing that came to mind was "Llama feels town". Out of everyone. So I asked you because you are an expert on yourself.

I thought it could have came from a mafia either trying to defend their buddy, or just half-assed say something that was along the lines of i'm-so-town. Because I don't think there was too much pressure on Llama to need someone to defend him. So I asked...why Llama?

And Llama doesn't particularly strike me as town.

[JaeReed]

Even though this is my fourth game, I still feel really new.

I got a tip from a mafia member in another game, and that person said that the mafia can be very stressed/uncomfortable during RVS, and the transition out of it. Considering that, I just want to point out that Tuberkulos seems the most unnatural with his posts, and is sorely sticking out to me at the moment.

Why did you not vote him at this time?

[JaeReed]

If you do think Tube is scum, why not vote him though?

Oh hey I remember where I first started thinking Llama felt town.

[JaeReed]

If you do think Tube is scum, why not vote him though?

I don't have a strong conviction.

You mentioned wanting to vote Bhoy though in the post where you said Tuber looked the most suspicious.
:/ It's a really weird dissonance to have. Can you explain that?

[JaeReed]

Quick question: what do you refer to as L-1 and L-2?

Also, with everyone being rather humble and modest in their posts, Lllama seems to stand out like a knight in shiny armour. At this point I only hope this knight sits under the right coat of arms.

This is kinda devoid of actual content, not loving it tbh.

[JaeReed]

If you do think Tube is scum, why not vote him though?

I don't have a strong conviction.

You mentioned wanting to vote Bhoy though in the post where you said Tuber looked the most suspicious.
:/ It's a really weird dissonance to have. Can you explain that?

Ah nvm, that was I4F. I don't know how my brain took a smiley face to be a dog, tbh.

[JaeReed]

Why are you showing intent to vote Byoh? You say that you aren't willing to put him at L-2, but he hasn't even posted at this point. What makes him your preferred vote over people who have not posted over UP who failed to even pick up their role?

Caution. I thought if I vote on him just because he hasn't posted, someone else can do exactly the same and now we're already at L-1. I probably overestimate what happens at L-1 (everyone directly accusing said player, being ready to finish him at any time), I thought it's better if we stay away from it for a couple of days. And remember, it's not like he said something that makes him scummy, he hasn't said anything. Just about everything could be the reason for that and being mafia is only 1 of them.

If I were to vote somebody, it would be Bhoysterous. But I'd rather search for scummy lines than to vote out someone who is going to get replaced anyway.

I kind of think this type of caution is a little townie.

[JaeReed]

Also, with everyone being rather humble and modest in their posts, Lllama seems to stand out like a knight in shiny armour. At this point I only hope this knight sits under the right coat of arms.

I think it is because his role as IC, regardless of his alignment. But, I'm not sure if this is should be role indicative or not, because his approach is very ...townie? I don't know how scum IC would approach to town or to their partner, but I'm pretty sure LlamaFluff will say that is depends on personality.

Vote I4F

Why did you vote In4Fun?

Vote : clockworkgirl

Let's be friend, JaeReed.

What did you feel was very townie about Llama's approach?
Why did you scumread clockworkgirl at this point?

[JaeReed]

@Yooh - My vote is because I4F is showing intention to vote a player that has apparently flaked after picking up their PM, and has no intention to vote a different player who flaked but did not pick up their role first. Its a distinction that makes no sense, especially as there are players that had posted but had said literally nothing of substance. It feels like a deliberate choice instead of a natural one.

@SIV - My point is we only have two week deadlines. 20% of the day is over, and very little has been said. This little content is very bad.

clockworkgirl actually did vote Bhoy there though rather than merely stating intent. Is it the intent that you find scummy moreso than the reasoning? If it's the reasoning, why were you not pushing clockworkgirl for it?

Are you normally a passive player?

[SIV36]

Why did you not vote him [Tuberkulous] at this time?

Because it was page one. (At least on my desktop, not sure about your mobile phones). I'm not ready to round up day 1 on page one, because one player did one small thing that I couldn't get behind. I said

considering

the idea that mafia are strange with RVS and getting out of it, then tubers would have one red flag (or yellow flag... warning flag). Llama says "Siv, not all people who are dealt the mafia role are going to be strange with RVS". My shoulders slumped, and I expressed to myself that I better let Llama know that he's right and I'm not really going to go gung-ho on tuber because I think all mafia-roled players will always be strange like tuber during RVS. So I told Llama I agree, which I guess people around here become very concerned about. *shrugs*

If you do think Tube is scum, why not vote him though?

I don't have a strong conviction.

You mentioned wanting to vote Bhoy though in the post where you said Tuber looked the most suspicious.
:/ It's a really weird dissonance to have. Can you explain that?

I'm assuming your talking post #22. (The post where I said tuber looked suspicious). Which I don't see a single trace of me saying that I wanted to vote Bhoy. My very first post, I said I vote Bhoysterous for not being boisterous. It was a random vote cast for the random vote stage, where people make light-hearted votes to basically break the ice and start conversation with less awkwardness. Which...tuberkulous kinda just skipped and went right into the awkward questioning. Pings my radar, I mentioned it, Llama disagrees, I agree, ....JaeReed questions...etc.

But I am not going cast my vote on tuberkulous 100%-scum-confirmed-drop-the-mic because he started questioning very early.

Considering

that one person who played the mafia felt uncomfortable during RVS, and might be something those that played the mafia may do more than average, .....I was just saying.

If I did what you were suggesting (put my vote on anyone I find is doing something out of place) my vote would change so often and quickly that it would never even have an impact at all. I'll place my vote when I get really into reading deep about something, and there is more than just one little red flag.