Newbie 1816 (Game Over)

[LlamaFluff]

The main thing that I saw (or maybe it's confirmation bias) was that Reed seems to protect clock a lot. I wondered by putting clock at L-2, if Reed would respond again similarly.

So what did his response tell you?

[SIV36]

The main thing that I saw (or maybe it's confirmation bias) was that Reed seems to protect clock a lot. I wondered by putting clock at L-2, if Reed would respond again similarly.

So what did his response tell you?

Well, he didn't directly ask me to not vote clock work. But:

[...]
3) To attempt to chain mislynches by going after the associate tell then being able to say "oh but Jae is still scummy independently of that"

[...]
3, eh maybe? But I don't have any level of confidence in that at all. Like I think as scum he would find it much easier to go after me there than to push clockwork?

If I were to get clockwork lynched, why is he so weirdly trying to convince us that it's going to be a mislynch? If he doesn't really know the alignment of clockwork, then why is there no indication present that clockwork

could

be scum from his perspective?

It's just bugging me that I have a JaeReed!Town in my head saying very very different things. Like, "If clockwork does end up being scum then...", or something like tuber who was like "I have no idea what you're going on about". But this JaeReed!unknown seems off to me responding to my accusation as "I just want to explain to all the players that I feel this OMGUS thing whenever people try to say I'm mafia."

[Nexus]

guyy replaces daRealdodo. Tuberkulos has also requested replacement, so searching for one for them.

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.7:

clockworkgirl (3)

- JaeReed, Yooh, SIV36

SIV36 (2)

- clockworkgirl, In4Fun

Llamafluff (1)

- Tuberkulos

In4Fun (1)

- Llamafluff

Not voting (2)

- Eclipsed, daRealDodo

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. The deadline is at 3pm BST on Tuesday 22nd August 2017 ((expired on 2017-08-22 15:00:00)).

[Nexus]

A Simple Plan replaces Tuberkulos

[JaeReed]

If you OMGUS-respond to me scum-reading you when you're town, how do you respond scum-reads on you if you're mafia?

Hard to explain.
As scum I tend to avoid omgus or even mentioning I want to because I like to be consistent in my reads and pushes. I like to make them make sense first and omgus typically doesn't.
So I'll be townreading someone who scumreads me and just end up being really dismissive. Idunno, have some links. I have like 3 scum games on site.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 1#p8430801
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p8430860

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 1#p8830841
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p8830853
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p8830862
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 6#p8830876
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p8830890
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 5#p8830905
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p8830920

[JaeReed]

Notice how I'm voting clockwork, and yet Reed responds as though I put

him

at L-2. I definitely got him acting a little unnerved. In my mind, it's either he really really has a confirmed town-read on clockwork, or if he's town, he shouldn't really care as much that clockwork is the one getting the pressure.

Er, you expressed a scumread on me yet didn't vote me over the assumed partner for me.
If I had an issue with clock being at L2 I'd just unvote. It's as simple as that.
If I were mafia with clock I wouldn't be voting her rn tbh. I don't bus.
I don't have a strong read on clockwork either way, but I'm trying to get reads on other people and that's by asking about motivations for things.

[A Simple Plan]

UNVOTE:

Hi guys, I'm ASP. I'm replacing Tuber. His vote on Llama was bad. Working on reading up a bit right now, but I might have to put a full catch-up on hold until after I get a little sleep.

Through two pages, Llama's play is more NAI (not alignment indicative) than anything to me. It feels more teach than necessarily town leader like others have suggested/hinted. But by no means should my vote be there.

As dumb as it may seem, the push on Bhoy for confirming and never posting honestly makes sense from a newbie-meta standpoint. I don't like pushing something of the sort because it always feels game-breaking, but still...

Also, in case any of you newbies are interested, yes you can check someone's last login time, but users can shut that function off by hiding their online status when they sign in, so it's not always effective.

[guyy]

hello! this is my second game here so far. excited to play with a new set of players!

i won't quote the whole thing, but i like clockwork's post 81. it reads as genuine. i currently do not think she is scum, so her views are really useful at this point

It seems a lot of people are suspecting me of being mafia. I'm not and if you got that impression all I can say in my defence is that it's my first time playing and I don't seem to be particularly good at the game. If you have any questions to ask I'd be happy to answer

i wouldn't take people thinking you're scum as indication that you're not very good. i think you've been doing fine. people are going to think you're scum from time to time. if you're not and a lot of people seem to think so, there's a decent chance at least one person that is reading you as scum is scum themselves. i'd also suggest you don't remain deadset in any of your views. if you absolutely think someone must be scum, try to see why others don't think so. maybe they're on to something. alternatively, try to see if there are any hints as to who their scum partner might be

at the moment, i think siv seems pretty town as well. i'm not seeing what others are seeing in either clockwork or siv. i think it's pretty likely the scum team lies outside of these two, but i'm not 100% on that yet. for day 1, though, i'd personally like to focus elsewhere. siv at the very least has been providing content, so we'll have a lot of useful information whether he flips town or scum. also, generally, imo willingness to change your mind in town is scary to scum, especially in lylo. it's useful for scum to keep around players who are more stubborn and set in their erroneous reads

Yes, we want it, but faster is always better. Why would you push a content from someone who post once every 2 day rather than someone who post 10 times every day, especially in RVS? The quality of post is also matter, though.

I think if you don't start applying pressure on someone who posts rarely in the beginning, they won't pick up the speed in time and be less of a help if he can't get up to speed when we really need them, in the later game or as soon as late Day 1.

i agree with this. i don't think i4f's vote on an inactive is AI, but i could still see him being scum. he's being weird but i'm worried that's just playstyle. it'd be cool not to start off the game with a mislynch

My god it is so hard to not just omgus SIV rn tbh.

Like, especially finding the whole thing about my interactions regarding clockwork to be disingenuous when I was clearly trying to do a reread and get my head into the game.

to me, it read as if he's really trying to find information in interactions, which is part of what everyone should be doing. i think it's a lot more likely to be offbase than disingenuous, especially considering how often he's changed his mind. do you think he was being equally disingenuous about everyone else he had suspicions for previously? how would you have read the reactions of those players if they had reacted as you are now?

tbh from my current understanding of your meta from what you've explaining, i think if you're town you'd better serve town if you tried to scumhunt outside of siv for now, even if siv ends up being scum. you could be right, but i think it's pretty likely you're still in an OMGUS mindset without expressly voting that way, which is equally unhelpful and likely to lead to people thinking you're scum, especially if siv flips town

But I'm also painfully aware of how prone i am to omgus and wanting to break away from that style of play because more often than not I'm going to be voting town with legitimate suspicions and that doesn't help work towards a cohesive town.
.....but my god do I want to Q_Q

in theory i like this hesitation. jaereed is displaying a good amount of self awareness. at this point i could see it being either town trying to improve their play or nervous scum thinking someone might know his meta and expect an OMGUS retaliation from town!jaereed. this is something i've personally done before as scum- been afraid people would notice a difference in my behavior so i have to call it out myself before anyone else can

If I were mafia with clock I wouldn't be voting her rn tbh. I don't bus.

i don't really have a lot of faith in WIFOM statements like these


llama's being helpful and producing a lot of content from everyone through asking questions, so i'd like to have him around. but i don't think he's done anything specifically that points to him being town. i think the points other people have made about him trying to lay low while producing a lot of content (ie. not sticking his neck out) are good points. maybe slight scum lean, but i'd rather not lynch a helpful IC day 1, haha


atm i think scum is likely in this pool of players:
in4fun, simple plan, eclipsed, jaereed

i'd like to narrow it down a bit more, but at this point VOTE: jaereed seems the most likely

[Nexus]

In4Fun has requested replacement

[clockworkgirl]

SIV36 I haven't seen anything that's changed my mind but I've not seen anything to increase my suspicions either. He's still the player I consider scummiest.

Can you tell me your opinion about Siv's #51 post?

SIV36 made a defence which I'd expect any competent town or mafia player to make. Previously I would have said it didn't move me one way or the other. Now, I'd like to highlight him saying that changing his mind was because it was early and he had no strong opinions. Then in recent posts he says I'm town, says he's narrowed the mafia players down to three, then changes his mind back and decides I'm mafia with Jaereed based on flimsy evidence. Even looking at it unbiased (ignoring the fact I know I'm town) doesn't make much sense and it strikes me that SIV36 is trying to push me as mafia solely because I'm the one under the most suspicion right now.

[Yooh]

Somehow i don't remember what kind of interaction i have at here

It is quiet alarming me that Tuberkulos and Eclipsed said clockwork is scummy because defensive yet didn't vote her. Somehow I find In4Fun exaggerated a bit. Maybe over-analyzing, but not sure. I don't think I will get answer for all of this.

I don't find why SIV could be scum, only his unvote at Eclipsed stand out for me. For me, his jump around because he is getting into this game to deep while we're not as active as him.

Does the interactions between JaeReed and Clockworkgirl ping other people's scum-detectors?

Not for me. JaeReed can go as town "why you use me/her instead other?" also

at the moment, i think siv seems pretty town as well. i'm not seeing what others are seeing in either clockwork or siv. i think it's pretty likely the scum team lies outside of these two, but i'm not 100% on that yet. for day 1, though, i'd personally like to focus elsewhere. siv at the very least has been providing content, so we'll have a lot of useful information whether he flips town or scum. also, generally, imo willingness to change your mind in town is scary to scum, especially in lylo. it's useful for scum to keep around players who are more stubborn and set in their erroneous reads

This is scary imo. You're like saying "I'm gonna keep both of them to LyLo", but I think it is too far from there. I might be too oversee you because I read one of your scum game. I don't think scum would do that, tho.

llama's being helpful and producing a lot of content from everyone through asking questions, so i'd like to have him around. but i don't think he's done anything specifically that points to him being town. i think the points other people have made about him trying to lay low while producing a lot of content (ie. not sticking his neck out) are good points. maybe slight scum lean, but i'd rather not lynch a helpful IC day 1, haha

I think that was Jaereed who said Llama plays passively, but you voted her while she made good point. Can you elaborate this? How can Jaereed-scum made a good point? I don't get how Llama trying to lay low while he is giving the most qualified posts.

[guyy]

i meant if i were scum i wouldn't want to keep siv around because changing his mind a lot is scary for scum in lylo. as scum, I'd want to go into lylo with players who are likely to deathtunnel each other, not someone playing like siv

to your second point, scum can make good points. even against scum. i think jaereeds points about llama are genuine regardless of either of their alignments

[guyy]

llama is asking a lot of questions but seems to have mostly stayed out of arguments from what i can tell

[guyy]

also keep in mind i'm not dead set on that vote. i'm not nearly as certain about anything as other players seem to be, haha

but on my initial read, jaereen is the best lynch candidate at the moment's

[sorry for multiple short posts in a row. phone posting]

[SIV36]

I didn't even notice JaeReed actually voted clockwork, I feel pretty stupid.

It may be my 4th+ game, but I still really don't know how to tackle this. Like a mad-scientist, I try out every theory that comes to mind (First game I played, I even counted how many times a person used the pronoun "I" per post for statement analysis deception detection thingamajig)

So I'm looking for any pattern that 7 people are all consistent with and 2 are being off with. Currently, I noticed one (something to do with how the players approach scum-hunting) and I'm back to looking at Yooh and In4Fun, with a mild suspicion on LlamaFluff again.

VOTE: Inf4Fun

It's about SIV trying to delaying the process, trying to make sure town do as little scumhunting as possible. My vote stays on SIV.

Are you saying I'm doing as little scum-hunting as possible? How have I delayed the game?

[LlamaFluff]

I didn't even notice JaeReed actually voted clockwork, I feel pretty stupid.

Would you have never voted clock now knowing this?

[SIV36]

I mean, it slipped my mind that JaeReed did the RVS vote.

Also, I did a paraphrase jot-note list of what JaeReed has done this game (in notepad but it didn't save). What I noticed is his reads are mostly apathetic, prod-dodging, being apologetic, and just all over picking people and making up reads...... not being focused. (I'm all over the place too, but I'm

too

focused; it's different) I don't know if it's NAI and him being not too much 'into' the game, or if it's because he's mafia.

[SIV36]

I didn't even notice JaeReed actually voted clockwork, I feel pretty stupid.

Would you have never voted clock now knowing this?

I'm not really catching the details. I thought JaeReed had a reason to vote (when I posted I feel stupid comment), now just realized it was because the RVS vote, but Reed had somewhat of a point that he could have just unvoted clockwork. I probably would have done something or thought something different if I had of caught that.

[JaeReed]

I mean, it slipped my mind that JaeReed did the RVS vote.

Also, I did a paraphrase jot-note list of what JaeReed has done this game (in notepad but it didn't save). What I noticed is his reads are mostly apathetic, prod-dodging, being apologetic, and just all over picking people and making up reads...... not being focused. (I'm all over the place too, but I'm

too

focused; it's different) I don't know if it's NAI and him being not too much 'into' the game, or if it's because he's mafia.

Not being in the game, regardless of my alignment.
I do think that there was a legitimate point you could have picked on there in that I should have unvoted clockwork if you felt as though I was hard townreading her, because from your pov if I was hard townreading clockwork via my actions then why would I be vote parking on her and encouraging apathy in the game? I honestly haven't been townreading her which is why I haven't bothered to move my vote, but I do think there was a legitimate thing you could have hunted me on there. Not so much now since I just answered, so it's a matter of whether you believe that I don't have a good read on her or not.

I'll try again to get into this game.
Do think SIV is most likely town.

[JaeReed]

I kind of want to townread guyy for having the balls to go after me after a self-admitted to being an omguser but I know that would be one of the laziest reads I could make.

[JaeReed]

If I were to get clockwork lynched, why is he so weirdly trying to convince us that it's going to be a mislynch? If he doesn't really know the alignment of clockwork, then why is there no indication present that clockwork could be scum from his perspective?

It's just bugging me that I have a JaeReed!Town in my head saying very very different things. Like, "If clockwork does end up being scum then...", or something like tuber who was like "I have no idea what you're going on about". But this JaeReed!unknown seems off to me responding to my accusation as "I just want to explain to all the players that I feel this OMGUS thing whenever people try to say I'm mafia."

Those scenarios were a "if SIV is scum pushing clockwork based off associative tells with me" thing. I think I did float the idea of you and clockwork being partners in that as well? The main thing is trying to think through what you would get out of that as mafia and whether it's more likely to just be a town push to see if you can get something out of it in a slow game.

As to the second paragraph, meh, I can see how it could come across that way, but I did elaborate on it in that post you quoted when I was trying to explain to Llama what about it I found disingenuous.

[SIV36]

I mean, it slipped my mind that JaeReed did the RVS vote.

Also, I did a paraphrase jot-note list of what JaeReed has done this game (in notepad but it didn't save). What I noticed is his reads are mostly apathetic, prod-dodging, being apologetic, and just all over picking people and making up reads...... not being focused. (I'm all over the place too, but I'm

too

focused; it's different) I don't know if it's NAI and him being not too much 'into' the game, or if it's because he's mafia.

Not being in the game, regardless of my alignment.
I do think that there was a legitimate point you could have picked on there in that I should have unvoted clockwork if you felt as though I was hard townreading her, because from your pov if I was hard townreading clockwork via my actions then why would I be vote parking on her and encouraging apathy in the game? I honestly haven't been townreading her which is why I haven't bothered to move my vote, but I do think there was a legitimate thing you could have hunted me on there. Not so much now since I just answered, so it's a matter of whether you believe that I don't have a good read on her or not.

I'll try again to get into this game.
Do think SIV is most likely town.

Ya know what else peeked me out,

Mafia chat had to stay open for a couple more days. Then, sometime after those couple days were over, clockwork came at you with this:

@Jareed: You said you'd be free to post yesterday but you didn't. When exactly are you going to be able to participate?

Now, probably you mentioned in game that you were going to participate, and clockwork was meaning that she noticed you being inconsistent and lying in game. However, that's a really weird way of scum reading you, and was wondering if it was a very blatant, yet still cryptic way of prodding you to say something in your guy's mafia chat.

I'm probably wrong about that too though, because that would be very risky to just say that in game. Depending on how serious she was in getting input in that chat if applicable.

[JaeReed]

i won't quote the whole thing, but i like clockwork's post 81. it reads as genuine. i currently do not think she is scum, so her views are really useful at this point

It seems a lot of people are suspecting me of being mafia. I'm not and if you got that impression all I can say in my defence is that it's my first time playing and I don't seem to be particularly good at the game. If you have any questions to ask I'd be happy to answer

i wouldn't take people thinking you're scum as indication that you're not very good. i think you've been doing fine. people are going to think you're scum from time to time. if you're not and a lot of people seem to think so, there's a decent chance at least one person that is reading you as scum is scum themselves. i'd also suggest you don't remain deadset in any of your views. if you absolutely think someone must be scum, try to see why others don't think so. maybe they're on to something. alternatively, try to see if there are any hints as to who their scum partner might be

If guyy is scum then don't think it's with clockwork at the very least. In a guyy scum world this is the start of pocketing, I think. While an in-thread reach out to a partner IS possible I think it generally happens with more leading questions to give a direction.
Uhh something like this:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 6#p8978476
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p8978560

[JaeReed]

Ya know what else peeked me out,

Mafia chat had to stay open for a couple more days. Then, sometime after those couple days were over, clockwork came at you with this:

@Jareed: You said you'd be free to post yesterday but you didn't. When exactly are you going to be able to participate?

Now, probably you mentioned in game that you were going to participate, and clockwork was meaning that she noticed you being inconsistent and lying in game. However, that's a really weird way of scum reading you, and was wondering if it was a very blatant, yet still cryptic way of prodding you to say something in your guy's mafia chat.

I'm probably wrong about that too though, because that would be very risky to just say that in game. Depending on how serious she was in getting input in that chat if applicable.

So I just went back because I completely forgot about the whole maf pt being open for 48 hours. That would have been closed like a day before I posted saying I'd catch up "tomorrow" or something, then two days after that was when clockwork prodded me because I didn't post any thoughts despite saying I would.
maf topic would have been well and truly locked by the time I even posted that I'd catchup soon.