Newbie 1816 (Game Over)

[Ginngie]

Also giving you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't an explicit OMGUS that you voted me purely because I think you're not town, but it feels really damn close to it.

[JaeReed]

UNVOTE:

You both feel different to what I'm used to.

[Ginngie]

UNVOTE:

You both feel different to what I'm used to.

pray tell

[Mulch]

Mulch, your scumread consists of me not thinking my scum read will flip town.

That means literally nothing.

Nope. It's because you are akaward around your reaction to when i said what you would think IF I flipped town.

[Ginngie]

I don't think you are so I'm not entertaining it.

I hate that question with a burning passion because it's stupid.

[Mulch]

You have it because your scum. As of now, I am having no further contact with you. Enjoy the scum lynch tmrw if I'm lynched.

[Ginngie]

You have it because your scum. As of now, I am having no further contact with you. Enjoy the scum lynch tmrw if I'm lynched.

You're trying to stand on some type of high ground and say you won't engage with me because you know your reasoning is scummy and further discussing it makes you look worse.

Essentially firing pot shots and trying to get out of the fight before people realize you're in the wrong.

[JaeReed]

If you flipped town JaeReed, I probably wouldn't get as much information, except who was pushing you (besides me). Between you and Eclipsed, you would have been the better lynch. (assuming I was right about you both being mafia)

You're talking in the past tense here. Does this mean you no longer believe that?

i don't like that clockwork went missing

is it because people are now focused elsewhere or a coincidence

she was posting like clockwork but now she's not lol

Yeah I noted this. Also saw her online at one point when I called her out which isn't a good look. That said, people can be busy and still half check in so I kinda hate going down that rabbit hole.

I got caught up with real life issues today. Tomorrow I will get back on track but for now

@JR - Are you calling Mulch scum or no? You seem to suggest something off meta but are just floating it out there.

I don't know re:Mulch. I'm just saying he's different. It could be the lack of spamming and that could have no real relevance to his alignment. I know people were reaming him for it in the last game I saw him in so it's not unreasonable to think maybe he's toning it down for that reason. I'd need to check what he was like in your game to have any real idea whether it could possibly be as simple as spamming = town for him. Even then, it's not a large enough sample size for me to be comfortable making a read off of. What I'd really like is a lot more reasoning from him.

[JaeReed]

UNVOTE:

You both feel different to what I'm used to.

pray tell

I'm used to Mulch being more spammy and pushy and gamesolvey.
I'm used to you being more cheeky and spammy and pushy and not as fencesittey on so many players.

I feel like you're both playing way more subdued and it's skeeving me out.

[Ginngie]

Also, when a player has expressed town reads and also a list showing who she doesn't town read, why didn't you ask me why I didn't town read those players?

Instead you went defensive instead of trying to sort me by exploring my reasoning for multiple slots.

Even then when you got defensive, you didn't actually talk about any of the points I brought up, or talk it out.

You chose to use an obscure reason that makes no real sense to OMGUS a player.

Literally nothing you did has been town

[Ginngie]

UNVOTE:

You both feel different to what I'm used to.

pray tell

I'm used to Mulch being more spammy and pushy and gamesolvey.
I'm used to you being more cheeky and spammy and pushy and not as fencesittey on so many players.

I feel like you're both playing way more subdued and it's skeeving me out.

Not much to attack in 10 pages and replacing in.

You'll notice, especially with Mulch now that I just need a catalyst and I'm on like a hawk

[WhemeStar]

I don't want to lynch Gin

[guyy]

i don't like that clockwork went missing

is it because people are now focused elsewhere or a coincidence

she was posting like clockwork but now she's not lol

Yeah I noted this. Also saw her online at one point when I called her out which isn't a good look. That said, people can be busy and still half check in so I kinda hate going down that rabbit hole.

this is more or less where i'm at. i'm trying to rely on the reads i have of her before she went missing


wtf are these posts:

VOTE: giningie

You know I will flip town and therefore are being akward when asked how you would react if I flip town.

You may say this but people will look back on this later game and see

The difference between you and me is that I don't truly care if I'm lynched but you do care

Ginnje is scum, I would avoid talking to them.

coupled with the fact that i'm feeling pretty okay about ginngie so far, i'm willing to switch to a VOTE: mulch vote [L-2 btw]

this also makes me feel a little bit better about asp for the time being. mostly because of how quickly mulch voted him after i did, but also because asp still has his vote on mulch. still would like more contribution from him

UNVOTE:

You both feel different to what I'm used to.

pray tell

I'm used to Mulch being more spammy and pushy and gamesolvey.
I'm used to you being more cheeky and spammy and pushy and not as fencesittey on so many players.

I feel like you're both playing way more subdued and it's skeeving me out.

can you elaborate a bit more on this? i get the gist that it's triggering red flags in your head but it's hard for me to determine exactly what that means for your reads. does it mean you could see either of them being scum? one or the other? both? neither?

[guyy]

My sincere apologies. Work has been killing me lately- I got called in Monday night, making this past evening five days straight that I've had to work; and if it wasn't for the "rollover" Saturday night, I'd already be into overtime hours for the week. Stocking jobs are exhausting...

Currently my vote goes on Mulch just at a glance. He is just jumping around on any potential wagon trying to see what sticks- when Llama was under pressure, his vote went there. He voted me to try to create a pressure wagon, and now he's on Jaereed who is, with that vote, the largest wagon- and all his reasoning has been absolutely terrible (Meta is garbage; wagoning an inactive is garbage; "gut" sometimes nails people (Micro 732), but is heavily unreliable.).

VOTE: Mulch

I started the wagon on Llama, he wasn't under pressure. I voted you as the second vote, so I didn't create the wagon. Jae was not the largest wagon at the time. Meta is the most reliable way to do reads, and gut is valid af with only NINE pages to go on.


Any more blatant, objective, and indisputable flat out deadass lies you would like to tell?

also feels worth noting that he started a seemingly bogus case against ginngie immediately after responding to the idea that he's just jumping around on any potential wagon trying to see what sticks

maybe asp was right

[Mulch]

I don't really care if I'm lynched as long as you vote Gin after me *shrug*

Go ahead and hammer

Just make sure to lynch ginigie tmrw

VOTE: Mulch

[Ginngie]

When I get home you're getting a SAD card

[guyy]

why don't you try being helpful and attempt to get us to see what you see

because right now even if you flip town it won't inherently tell me anything about ginngie

[Mulch]

It will. Ginnigie was too scared to talk about what her reaction would be if I flipped town. Ginnigie is scum.

[Mulch]

There's nothing more I am saying for this day. Here is what we do today.


1) We hammer me.

2) Tomorrow, you quicklynch Gingie and realize my post mortem reads are very good.

3) If you don't, and town loses, I accept no responbility for the loss.


I will say no further things today.

[guyy]

why would anyone be any more convinced d2 than they are right now?

what if you're both town

this feels so stupid =/

[Ginngie]

It will. Ginnigie was too scared to talk about what her reaction would be if I flipped town. Ginnigie is scum.

VOTE: giningie

You know I will flip town and therefore are being akward when asked how you would react if I flip town.

Mulch, your scumread consists of me not thinking my scum read will flip town.

That means literally nothing.

Double flaking scum tell, opportunistic voting, and no realistic reasoning to scum read a player, that's scumfuck level.

Also giving you the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't an explicit OMGUS that you voted me purely because I think you're not town, but it feels really damn close to it.

I don't think you are so I'm not entertaining it.

I hate that question with a burning passion because it's stupid.

You have it because your scum. As of now, I am having no further contact with you. Enjoy the scum lynch tmrw if I'm lynched.

You're trying to stand on some type of high ground and say you won't engage with me because you know your reasoning is scummy and further discussing it makes you look worse.

Essentially firing pot shots and trying to get out of the fight before people realize you're in the wrong.

Also, when a player has expressed town reads and also a list showing who she doesn't town read, why didn't you ask me why I didn't town read those players?

Instead you went defensive instead of trying to sort me by exploring my reasoning for multiple slots.

Even then when you got defensive, you didn't actually talk about any of the points I brought up, or talk it out.

You chose to use an obscure reason that makes no real sense to OMGUS a player.

Literally nothing you did has been town

[guyy]

if we lynch you then ginngie and you're both town and we lose will you accept full responsibility for the loss

[Ginngie]

A town reaction is a reads dump, just pour info to help town.

Being silent and self lynching is not town

[LlamaFluff]

I don't get the Mulch wagon. I don't see him as scum pressuring me the way he did as scum when he just got out of a game I had him pegged on but couldn't get everyone else behind me on it. I think he would try to avoid that much immediate direct content.

@Ginngie - How do you bring up Mulch being scum for a double flake... and then suddenly not realize he replaced Eclipse?

Full stop.

Self-voting is bad. It should basically never been done(as either alignment) apart from extreme situations where its part of a game breaking tactic, and even then its probably wrong. Mulch needs to stop doing that right now because even in a situation where he is town and Ginngie is scum, its probably not going to get him anything he wants.

No one should hammer. If you are planning on hammering, you need to make it clear so Mulch can claim first.

I don't like either a Mulch or Ginngie lynch too much (borderline at all), but I by far prefer Ginngie out of the two.

Trying to get more stuff together on JR. Bear with me for a minute. I think we can do a whole lot better than two players who have some sort of history just putting on blinders and yelling at each other.

[LlamaFluff]

In my dive there I saw you're not opposed to policy lynching. Yet if you're lacking scumreads in the active players one would think that would be a valid reason to push a lurker lynch if you're not shy of policy lynches. Even

that

would give more content for us to talk about.

You don't policy lynch lurkers. You policy lynch toxic players and players who are extremely anti-town in their natural play. Lurking is only a scumtell if you think its being down strategically.

You're lacking a distinct drive for content which I felt you should have as town here - the main question was whether you're someone who can actually drive things as town. I don't entirely believe that you're incapable of pushing slots for pressure.

I don't like voting randomly for no good reason. I still cant drive anything when people flake. You can hold players responsible for their predecessors actions, but you cant expect them to be able to explain moves they did not make too well.

There was a possibility Mulch was scum for pushing it but this feels like "why me fry me", basically. My argument here would have been that you had suspicions on Mulch in that other game so he would be pushing you to get rid of a player that might be able to read him.

This seems like a fallacy and WIFOM.

How so? I did the meta dive when I said I would, so it's not like I'm just going to point at Mulch and say "he said it was a meta tell so he's scum pushing a mislynch with incorrect meta" - which would be such a rubbish push that I wouldn't honestly expect anyone to buy it anyway. I can see his point regarding why you could be scum here since you did a lot more in the last game he played with you. I can also see your point that you were a replacement and there was a lot more content to start from.

That is not the point I was trying to make. You said that you were voting with him because it would help give reads on his slot. That seems directly like you are saying "depending on the flip I will read you differently" to me. How are you going to gain a read on his slot by sheeping him any other way?

I was scumreading you for not attempting to drive the game forward (making no real push in content or votes/wagons) but didn't think it was a viable wagon for the day since multiple people stated they weren't lynching you today. What does a scum!me have to gain from pushing that wagon?

Dead town. A reason to call Mulch scum if he is town. Those are two good reasons to get behind a wagon as scum to me.

1) Think this is nothing more than dressed up omgus so far.
2) Your vote on me is actually what looks most opportunistic, since your scumread of me came as a "feels unnatural" after SIV and guyy express interest, which felt opportunistic in itself.
3) Please explain the bolded; because that reads like you're already excusing yourself for my townflip as a deadline push.

1) If you think that fine, but I had been calling you somewhat of a scum read for most of the game up to that point.
2) At that point I had a gut scum read, and wanted to express that read.
3) I was stating that I4F was my preferred lynch, but with what I thought was a deadline in under 12 hours and that wagon not happening, a weaker scum read was a fine lynch compared to a no lynch, even if not my ideal one.

Can you also explain the difference between chainsaw and just having a read. You start trying to push at SIV for it, but what is different from him voting you as town because of a scum read, and him trying to chainsaw a partner? I think town tries to attack the reasoning for the attack, and not the attack itself, or at least attacks both at the same time.

You also give meta for two scum games. Earlier you mention three scum games. How many is it?