Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

[Katyusha]

doesnt matter if you're still caught up bc that was my response to your response and context wouldnt change anything

dont mind waiting for you to catch up though

[Hopkirk]

Flubber’s entrance is basically the same as a previous game I’ve played with him where he was town.

Bujaber’s Moz vote in 139 isn’t very good. Reads as (wanting to sound) annoyed, yet doesn’t quite fit. Moz isn’t the only one guilty of what Bu is complaining about, it’s explicitly not a serious vote Bu is making, and Moz didn’t say ‘confirmed’ town, so Bu is changing his words to make the read.
That wouldn’t make me dislike Bu alone. I dislike Bu because he then goes on to express a scumread on either Flubber or Seph. Firstly, he doesn’t comment on why, which doesn’t fit with his earlier complains about people lacking content/good reasoning. Secondly, those are popular wagons. Ignoring them in favour of the Moz vote looks like intentionally trying to avoid getting involved in the main ongoing discussions. Sitting at the sidelines.

[Hopkirk]

doesnt matter if you're still caught up bc that was my response to your response and context wouldnt change anything

dont mind waiting for you to catch up though

The point was that I'd seen what you'd said, but I'd finish catching up before responding.

VOTE: BuJaber

Avatar is too edgy for me please lynch this

VOTE: internecine

Hmmm. Avatars mean nothing

This is the post you were referencing, right?

[Katyusha]

Yeah. Is it really unreasonable to think that, regardless of what other people would think of that vote, it's a serious vote?

[Katyusha]

Flubber’s entrance is basically the same as a previous game I’ve played with him where he was town.

Bujaber’s Moz vote in 139 isn’t very good. Reads as (wanting to sound) annoyed, yet doesn’t quite fit. Moz isn’t the only one guilty of what Bu is complaining about, it’s explicitly not a serious vote Bu is making, and Moz didn’t say ‘confirmed’ town, so Bu is changing his words to make the read.
That wouldn’t make me dislike Bu alone. I dislike Bu because he then goes on to express a scumread on either Flubber or Seph. Firstly, he doesn’t comment on why, which doesn’t fit with his earlier complains about people lacking content/good reasoning. Secondly, those are popular wagons. Ignoring them in favour of the Moz vote looks like intentionally trying to avoid getting involved in the main ongoing discussions. Sitting at the sidelines.

i can vibe with this read though on bu

i think the specific action of the entrance (stating reads) is fine but the reads themselves are the problem; which, unless flub frequently gives bad reads, means im not really putting much stock into that meta

[Hopkirk]

Yes, it is unreasonable to think that.
UC understands RVS happens. Consequently, he cannot develop a strong scumread on someone just because they engage in RVS.
It could be called 'serious' if you set a really really low bar for calling a vote serious, but I(/anyone reasonable) would set the bar significantly above that.

VOTE: Bujaber
Meant to do this in 151.

Regarding Flubber's enterance, the vote in that game was also part of a significant wagon that stayed close to the lynch the entire day phase.

[Katyusha]

the bar I presume is set low for UCV here which is why I’m wanting clarification

[Hopkirk]

and an Hopkirk.
Played with twice when he was town and both times he was very active, proactive. it's early days but so far he has been lightweight.

The bar in question is my and your perspectives, not UCV's.
'Serious' could either mean 'not random' or 'A top scumread as of now' or 'I would be happy to end the day with a lynch right now'. Where do you set the bar?

[BuJaber]

The reason I didn't vote for either wagons is spefically because they're wagons. If the point is to get wagons going to move the game forward and get people talking about them then this is already done. People are talking about these 2. If the point is to vote for who I think is scum, I can't decide between them, so I'm looking elsewhere. As to why one of out those 2 is probably scum that's easy, I think the way they jumped on to the wagon was lazy.

Your first point is irrelevant. You're being picky on my word choice. Moz was implying those 5 cannot be scum. That's what conftown means. I wasn't quoting him word for word.

[BuJaber]

The reason I didn't vote for either wagons is spefically because they're wagons. If the point is to get wagons going to move the game forward and get people talking about them then this is already done. People are talking about these 2. If the point is to vote for who I think is scum, I can't decide between them, so I'm looking elsewhere. As to why one of out those 2 is probably scum that's easy, I think the way they jumped on to the wagon was lazy.

Your first point is irrelevant. You're being picky on my word choice. Moz was implying those 5 cannot be scum

from his perspective*

. That's what conftown means. I wasn't quoting him word for word.

[BuJaber]

Sorry in my vocab conftown doesn't necessary mean confirmed for everyone, but can mean confirmed for one person from their perspective. I just realized that may be our source of misunderstanding.

[Katyusha]

My first impression was that the vote wasn’t serious but n_m pointed out in context that it could be serious - after rereading it I thought that it was more likely UCV thought that was actually scummy

The bar in general, or at least for me, for a serious vote is one you can defend as voting for something scummy - so if UCV legitimately is seeing scum motive then finding out why is useful for reading him, even if you personally think the vote is arbitrary

[Katyusha]

Bu I get where you’re coming from but a lot of people confidently state their reads in the early game

I don’t think hard townreads on me, sheep, or n_m are entirely unreasonable positions to hold rn

[BuJaber]

Bu I get where you’re coming from but a lot of people confidently state their reads in the early game

I don’t think hard townreads on me, sheep, or n_m are entirely unreasonable positions to hold rn

Okay maybe I overreacted. When I read moz's post I freaked out because I thought he was implying that we should lynch people from his nontown list until we hit all scum or they're all dead. That is how I read it. If I am right that this is what he meant then everyone should join me in freaking out because that is a reckless way to play. But seeing how you and hop are calm about it leads me to think I took his list too seriously and it's not as rigid as I perceived it.

[Katyusha]

it's a poe list - if he sees reason to change it he will, but otherwise yes he will be pushing from his non-trs

do you still think the way he's approaching it is scummy still?

like the only issue im really seeing is flubber town but i'm still at the point where he could be right

[BuJaber]

In this game yes I'm finding the approach scummy. I don't think there's enough to warrant such confident reads. But I don't necessary think he's definitely wrong about his townreads.

But I can see how some town would choose this approach sometimes. I wouldn't. I tend to break the pool apart into small pieces. For example right now I have flubb/seph in one group. Scumreading both, but I don't think both can be scum together so I'll be analyzing them further as the game goes on. I have moz as another scumread, and I'm pursuing this trajectory and seeing if it makes sense through his and others' reactions. I have sheep as a townie which means i'll be continuing to monitor if that makes sense, and if his reads make sense from a townie perspective. Hopkirk, who was a nullread more or less but slightly leaning towards town has actually raised a good point about sheep so that makes me question things for example.

Anyway you get the picture.

[Katyusha]

i think i'm at

{sheep, n_m} - Town
{Intern, Serg} - Townlean
{hem, moz} - weaker townlean
{Bu, Hop} - frequently going back and forth on tbh
{UCV, Schism} - null
{Seph, Flub} - scumlean

which is a lot less than i thought i was at and im not really confident about seph with the meta reads on him (planning on looking into that rn)

[humaneatingmonkey]

VC please. Can we focus on a Flubb wagon? Thank you.

Flubb, why should we think you're town?

[northsidegal]

vc next pagetop

[Katyusha]

so the more pagetops sheep grabs the less votecounts we get

will be mindful of this

[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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