Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

[sheepsaysmeep]

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[UC Voyager]

I think one scum is pretty likely in {Serg/UC/Schism} btw

can we not do this type of grouping pls it's annoying

what do you have against POE

it's not even poe he's just taking a group of ppl
why the hell is schism there

also ucv can you like
do the shit you need to do

what he is doing is POE. if we lynch X, X, and X, we will hit scum. it has worked really good many times. what do you find bad about it. the fact that a player is there that you think should not be there?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'd like to hear more about why I'm scum

VOTE: Flubb

That's L-1 again

[UC Voyager]

Can I be replaced with my alt, DoYouKnowDeWay?

[BuJaber]

@Intern - 188 was me stating intent. But I was saying I wouldn't until the people I mentioned posted and even after that I may decide I want more time.

That was 188. Now I don't want flubb dead yet. Gotta sort out the scummier options first: serg, intern, moz.

[Hopkirk]

Skimming back through yesterday, none of HEM’s points against me are any good. The only thing that stands up seems to be that Hopkirk misread something and HEM used that to paint me as bad instead of asking for clarification first. Will go through this more in a bit.
HEM is probably down to scum for me though.

I still think Hop is scum and am capable of casing him but I think I'd like more people to weigh in on him.

What's your take so far?

I would like to see that as I'm unclear why you're scumreading me.

Sorry, thought the implication was clear. I don't think his summary was accurate, so yes.

It was no need to apologize. I wanted it spelled out for my own peace of mind.

Here's my situation:

1. I'm not so sure flubb is scum here. Which from my perspective and previously mentioned poe makes seph scum. I want to vote there, but feel like it might be too late.
2. we need schism and people other than you 4 to post.
3. HEM has become the most solid town read out of everyone.
4. Because of my thoughts on 315, and points 1 and 3 above, and now that you've confirmed that I did correctly if not completely grasp your conversation with Hop, I'm leaning scum for hop also.

I do not see how you reach me as scum from that.

@Flubber: What scum motivation is there for ‘tangential reasoning’?

Up to end of 16

[Hopkirk]

411 Don’t like buJaber trying to paint it as one of Flubber/Seph is scum. Don’t see any good reasoning.
What I dislike about HEM, looking back, is that he tried to push me/attack me for it instead of clarifying I understood. I’ll point this out directly later. Seems more opportunistic than trying to understand though.

@Intern: Do you have no thoughts on the Kat/Hop/HEM interactions?

[Hopkirk]

I still think Hop is scum and am capable of casing him but I think I'd like more people to weigh in on him.

What's your take so far?

203 - Claims I am whiteknighting Flubber. The following is all the times I’d mentioned any form of townlean on Flubber to that point:
147- ‘Flubber town.’ (no additional reasoning).
151- ‘Flubber’s entrance is basically the same as a previous game I’ve played with him where he was town.’
Describing that as whiteknighting is false.

Then I asked in 205 ‘What about my townread on Flubber is bad/wrong? Since most could see why Flubber was suspicious, please go over his case in your own words.’
206 : ‘well you can't be wrong about your townread on flubb if you know flubb is town. it just seems convenient that you can see 20/20 about Flubb's alignment and happy to defend him.’
HEM responds, doubling down on me having Flubber as confirmed town. He’s also working backwards from ‘Hop is scum hence x’ rather than trying to determine whether I am scum in the first place.

My response: ‘You're suggesting I'm 100% sure about the read, despite my agreement on overstating reads. '20/20' and 'if you know' and 'you can't be wrong' imply a lot more than I've said.’

This is not out of context as he claims in 242

[humaneatingmonkey]

Clarify yourself. You were the one pushing me then. And I asked you to come back when you had a clearer head.

[Hopkirk]

Looking back, I found something important. I wasn't misreading.

Katyusha is right UNVOTE:

VOTE: Hopkirk

If Flubb is town, Hopkirk is scum, probably. "how?" Whiteknighting players without second guessing when

most could see that UC and Flubb were sus

. And also I'm sheeping Kat.

Don't like that you're asking instead of voting me here. You seem a bit too cautious/sheepy with your votes given you disliked UC.

This is why I thought HEM found UC suspicious. He said it here.

I dont like how you think i should have voted you there. i dont like how you're branding my play cautious here when that's not even what's happening. i dont like how you think sheeping is something unlikeable. and i don't like how you think me not liking UC is somehow grounds to not place my vote elsewhere

I misread part of this, which is what Kat pointed out earlier, making me think I'd never actually read HEM saying UC was suspicious.

no. i dont have an opinion on UC. there's literally nothing on UC. im just noting what you said.

This conflicts with finding UC suspicious.

[Hopkirk]

The phrases aren’t out of context. You haven’t shown why they apply/why you’re sure I had Flubber as basically conf-town.

Because everything in your ISO is mostly UC, and flatly telling everyone that Flubb was town without doing some grilling or scrutinizing that read first.

Unture. Attrtibutes the 100% Flubber read to me- and to scum me initially.

I never said I thought you liked UC. Quote this.

Here:

Spoiler: here

I thought you liked UC

so voted Flubber, might be wrong about the consistently part then. Why do you dislike UC?

Are you saying that in 209 you weren't saying you disliked UC.

Yes. I wasn't saying that. I was noting that me not liking UC isn't really something that should keep me from voting elsewhere — because you said you disliked that.

I really dislike this ucv conversation and it needs to be dropped. it's fluff and nothing about it will generate anything AI. that's why it's convenient to be talked about.

a: UC thought it was scummy. So? Does that make him town or scum?
b: UC thought it wasn't scummy and was just RVSing. So? Does that make him town or scum?
c. UC thought it wasn't scummy but wasn't RVSing. So? Does that make him town or scum? No, just an idiot.

The quote used here is 219. I posted less than a minute after in 220 clarifying that I had misread, and that HEM didn't ever think UC was town.
This is a misrepresentation by exclusion.

By cautious I mean only voting on people who have other votes first and not producing content to support those votes.

Anyway, right now I'm thinking something like:
Town: NM, Flubber, HeM, Katyu, Moz
Neutral: UC, Seph, Sheep
Scum: BuJaber, Serg, and maybe Intern

Responded in 264 (above quoted) to my Iso of him. Did not respond to this, or ask me to clarify how he was being 'cautious' before responding in 264.
Misrepresenting/trying to discredit it.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: HEM

[BuJaber]

Lol good job Hop. That is way easier and more obvious to follow than HEM's case.

VOTE: HEM

[Katyusha]

Confidently stating "Flubb is town" and then giving a reason that definitely should not come attached with that confidence is definitely a white knight - a bad defense on a slot while it's being pushed that does little to actually dismantle the wagon. It wasn't taking the talking points against him into consideration when I'm fairly sure they were stated at that point, nor is a meta read based on something he did once that honestly can be done by anyone a strong enough point to really counteract the Flubber scumreads at the time.

Nor does HEM saying "when most found UCV suspicious" mean

he

found UCV suspicious. UCV was an RVS wagon and some people had suspicion attached to their votes, most people who had posted at that point expressed a willingness to lynch him!

dont really like the hem bandwagon at all - seph is definitely town on it if we're considering it {Flubber, Seph, Bu, Hopkirk} and I think the most likely scum on it is between Bu and Hopkirk.

VOTE: BuJaber

more regarding the situation when i'm back.

[northsidegal]

DoYouKnowDeWay replaces UC Voyager.

[humaneatingmonkey]

"Monkey's points weren't good"
They were. Not only were they good, they were true. That's the best kind of good. You have been painting a negative picture of me just to push me. And it's so synthetic. Why are you trying so hard to push me with bad interpretation?

You case me for not clarifying thing between Kat and you (not true, I did), but right now you're not doing that between you and I either. So what's up hombre?

Also, I'll say again that I never found UC suspicious. I never found UC anything. It's just objectively true that people have been sussing on that post, when it should be dropped asap anyway.

You're looking like scum trying to find an attack point here, but failing miserably. I think town would have took a step back and realize how confused he actually is. Your push is reaching for something. VOTE: Hopkirk

203 - Claims I am whiteknighting Flubber. The following is all the times I’d mentioned any form of townlean on Flubber to that point:
147- ‘Flubber town.’ (no additional reasoning).
151- ‘Flubber’s entrance is basically the same as a previous game I’ve played with him where he was town.’
Describing that as whiteknighting is false.

That is the best way to describe it lmfao. I was wrong with saying that you have been flatly saying Flubb was town? That was literally how you approached Flubb. "Flubb town".

You say I assumed you had him as confirmed town? I merely answered your question why your townread was wrong. I said you wouldn't be wrong if you knew Flubb was town. Then you take that out of context and say that it's me saying you had Flubb as confirmed town. That's literally taking things out of context.

"Misrepresentation by exclusion"? I just quoted you saying what you said I should quote you for.

Your case is nonsense.

[Katyusha]

for the record i'm voting for whichever of hop/bu has more votes rn but when i case hop i'm going to urge bu voters to consider moving to hop since im more confident there

not back yet, on phone and want to give this more thought

[humaneatingmonkey]

How you dwelled on the UC by generating fluff and how you don't see how Flubb was suspicious in his entry in that empty UC wagon and even seeing him town for it, makes my eyes squint.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I can do either Buj and Hop.

Anyone who thinks I really did want to quicklynch N_M there is either not too critical or just willing to jump on the next fashion trend.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't care if Kat is scum pocketing me, I'm buddying with her for the rest of the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Moz, are you town this game? Let's buddy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, how you think it was misrepresentation when it was obviously the actual events that transpired adds to the paradigm that you're coming from a very synthetic point of view. I didn't have the impression of you having ego. If you were town, you would have simply called it what it is and tried to reach an understanding between the two of us. But here you are pushing me saying I was lying and misrepping when it's clear as day that it's not the case.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I can see HEM's case (with regards to HEM's own posts) on Hop making sense. But the Kat/Hop interaction is messier.

Also while I totally see HEM's point of view, I am not sure Hop was doing it intentionally. Him not liking the flubb wagon is more AI imo.

3. HEM has become the most solid town read out of everyone.
4. Because of my thoughts on 315, and points 1 and 3 above, and now that you've confirmed that I did correctly if not completely grasp your conversation with Hop, I'm leaning scum for hop also.

Scumreading HEM seems odd. I admit his entrance was meh. But hopkirk wasn't accurately portraying HEMs posts .. that part is correct. So it feels like town pushing for a policy lynch on hop for lying. Also HEMs interactions and haphazard trains of thought scream townie trying to make sense of things. Overly confident or clear-minded players who rarely change their process are either bad at playing town or scum. Which is why I scumread moz in the first place. I read unwilllingness to change the game plan he set for himself.

LATER THAT DAY...

Lol good job Hop. That is way easier and more obvious to follow than HEM's case.

VOTE: HEM

What's good, BuJ?

[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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