Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over

[PenguinPower]

....sorry, is Thor's argument 'pp was online when the thread started = scum?'.

Tbf, pp's defense against this not being 'email alerts for pms' is also pretty weak.

I assume im being trolled with money's response to me.

I posted before the PM so....

[mozamis]

thor looks town. whether he is right or wrong about penguin, he is game solving.

[PenguinPower]

thor looks town. whether he is right or wrong about penguin, he is game solving.

Meh, it's too early to tell. This is how Thor plays either alignment.

[mozamis]

UNVOTE:

[mozamis]

penguin sounds like he is telling the truth.

[mozamis]

moz, penguin, thor town. P.O.E ahoy!

[mozamis]

thor looks town. whether he is right or wrong about penguin, he is game solving.

Meh, it's too early to tell. This is how Thor plays either alignment.

well, sounds like you know his meta and i dont. still, it's ballsy for scum and this early in the game, i'm inclined to say more likely to be town than scum.

[mozamis]

Hi everyone, let's make it a good game and good luck!

VOTE: Thor665

this is my least favourite post. bit self conscious?
VOTE: hewhoswims

[texcat]

Hey all.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

I have a couple of town leans already I think

VOTE: Maxous
This looks like a blatant attempt to look like you're scum hunting without actually doing anything.

---

I like Penguin's reaction to Thor's case. And I liked that Thor pushed the case to get the reaction.

[Thor665]

Because I'm not about to say "hey everyone, thor is

clearly

doing this scum thing despite there being other equally valid explanations for his behavior". That would be pretty hypocritical considering my stance on Penguin, wouldn't you think?

For example one of those equally valid explanations would be that you're overly-aggressively scum hunting right out the gate. In this scenario, Beefster's casual defense of Penguin may be viewed in an incriminating light.

I'm not looking to pin everyone down as 100% scum or town on page 2. I'm just looking to put various information on the table so opinions can more quickly be formed.

What made you call out my action unprompted and Beefeater's only when needing to justify your actions as non-scummy?

The case on it's face is weak. It requires that scum submitted their choices and mod was online at the same time, and scum knew this. Then scum would be patiently watching for the mod to open the thread so they could make the first post To what end? What's the motivation for scum to do that?

There is no motivation.
There is however a higher likelihood that a scum would be active at a similar time if the mod was present right when scum submitted.
You are honestly saying you can't even understand my issue now?

I also was active on site at the time the thread was opened.

This is not true from your postings in threads I can see.

Also, where was I throwing shade at you?

My bad -you often say someone's case is weak and act incredulous at their rather plain stance when you're building them up?
I must have misunderstood you.

[Thor665]

well, sounds like you know his meta and i dont. still, it's ballsy for scum and this early in the game, i'm inclined to say more likely to be town than scum.

Hey all.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

I have a couple of town leans already I think

VOTE: Maxous
This looks like a blatant attempt to look like you're scum hunting without actually doing anything.

I second (well, first) this - and encourage it to become a topic.

[PenguinPower]

There is no motivation.
There is however a higher likelihood that a scum would be active at a similar time if the mod was present right when scum submitted.
You are honestly saying you can't even understand my issue now?

I agree with the statement "There is however a higher likelihood that a scum would be active at a similar time if the mod was present right when scum submitted" with the qualifier of "and the mod opened the thread shortly after."

However, how do you know that scum submitted the choice at 5:30CT last night? Without knowing that, your statement is irrelevant. There's no greater chance that the reason I posted when I did was:

a.) Coincidentally logging in, seeing an open thread, and posting in it.
b.) Being active on site, seeing an open thread, and posting in it.
c.) Being scum who somehow knew that the mod received my team choices and was going to open the thread so hung around to see the thread being opened to be the first to post even though (by your own admission) there was no motivation to do so.

I understand what you're trying to say, but I think that its weak. Hell, c. sound downright insane.

This is not true from your postings in threads I can see.

Too bad I can do nothing to prove otherwise. You can choose to believe or not.

My bad -you often say someone's case is weak and act incredulous at their rather plain stance when you're building them up?
I must have misunderstood you.

I often call cases weak when they are, especially when directed at me. As stated above, it does nothing to help me with your alignment since this is just what you do. I never threw shade.

[HeWhoSwims]

Uh, I think the argument for the first poster to be scum is weak Penguin might've just been around when the game started, or had an email notification, or was doing mod stuff...

If Thor is using/blowing up the argument towards Penguin to get out of RVS maybe that would point to the scum reaction being to defend Penguin and try to get an easy mislynch in Thor (who I doubt is scum, scum wanting to mislynch Penguin this early would be way too obvious I think - and hey, at least Thor is causing discussion which I consider pro town). That could point to Beef as scum. But, it's early so it's nothing set in stone of course.

58 makes sense, let's see those reads then. Although I don't think page 1 reads can really help scumhunting at this stage.

Anywho neither argument towards Penguin or EP really makes sense.

[PenguinPower]

58 makes sense, let's see those reads then. Although I don't think page 1 reads can really help scumhunting at this stage.

It at least requires him to establish reasons for having his tls...although he later walked it back to gut reads.

VOTE: Maxous

I like this for now.

[Moneybags]

Hi everyone, let's make it a good game and good luck!

VOTE: Thor665

this is my least favourite post. bit self conscious?
VOTE: hewhoswims

Is this supposed to be a RV? I thought we were past that.

What made you call out my action unprompted and Beefeater's only when needing to justify your actions as non-scummy?

I didn't think it was prompted at all. I was just throwing out additional notes.


More on Penguin:
- I like the reactions we've gotten out of it so far but I feel like it's a waste of time. I personally don't feel like there's a solid read to be had on Penguin based on what we've seen.
- I feel like Thor's overaggressive scumhunting doesn't make him town based on his experience with the game.
- I do however think it's incredibly effective. But in terms of Penguin I think the argument made is very weak and won't yield any further results.

On Maxous's "I have town reads"
- I feel like it's an odd thing to say but I can see why he wouldn't supply reasons. Sometimes you just get vague impressions, it happens.
- What I don't understand is

why he felt the need to speak out on these impressions.

PEdit: Not a fan of how quick penguin is to get the focus shifted on someone else...

[Moneybags]

Also, UNVOTE:

[HeWhoSwims]

I'm not one to usually have solid reads right out of RVS, but I am townlean on Thor now for, as I said, scumhunting (although it's OTT) is a catalyst for discussion -> is good. Would scum!Thor really want to put that much attention onto themselves that early?

I can see why you get vague impressions but I don't think they'll be helpful to the game... someone isn't scum or town based on the way they cast a vote in RVS or say hello to competitors so having impressions is okay, but why mention them as you said?

pedit: Since I'm still on thor, UNVOTE: as well.

[Moneybags]

I'm not one to usually have solid reads right out of RVS, but I am townlean on Thor now for, as I said, scumhunting (although it's OTT) is a catalyst for discussion -> is good. Would scum!Thor really want to put that much attention onto themselves that early?

I can see why you get vague impressions but I don't think they'll be helpful to the game... someone isn't scum or town based on the way they cast a vote in RVS or say hello to competitors so having impressions is okay, but why mention them as you said?

pedit: Since I'm still on thor, UNVOTE: as well.

I may be using the term wrong, but isn't that considered WIFOM? It seems thor does this every game so I'm not convinced it can be a guaranteed town tell. If the goal of scum is to act as town as possible, and scum hunting is a towntell (as it would seems everyone agrees, as a few have pinned thor as town already) would it not make sense to scumhunt? I'm not saying he's either, just that I'm not so quick to pin him as either this early.

I'm moreso starting to agree. I don't see why he felt the need to add that other than to say "yes I too am contributing". I thought people were reading into it too much at first but I can see why now more than I did previously.

[PenguinPower]

PEdit: Not a fan of how quick penguin is to get the focus shifted on someone else...

Would you prefer I keep beating the dead horse, or would you rather I keep my RVS vote on the empty-EP slot?

[HeWhoSwims]

Yeah it's WIFOM (If I too am using the term correctly) but it strikes me more as town than scum. I haven't metadived or anything but I'll believe the people saying this about Thor. It takes away from the case for town!Thor. My initial train of thought was just that scum scumhunting would bring more risks (getting heat + generating discussion) than benefits, if you see what I'm saying. And no I don't want to pin down Thor in any way. We're not underway for 24h let alone an entire gameday. Reads are bound to shift. Same goes for Maxous, it's a small suspicious thing he's doing but that alone doesn't warrant a lynch, I'd say.

[Thor665]

However, how do you know that scum submitted the choice at 5:30CT last night? Without knowing that, your statement is irrelevant. There's no greater chance that the reason I posted when I did was:

a.) Coincidentally logging in, seeing an open thread, and posting in it.
b.) Being active on site, seeing an open thread, and posting in it.
c.) Being scum who somehow knew that the mod received my team choices and was going to open the thread so hung around to see the thread being opened to be the first to post even though (by your own admission) there was no motivation to do so.

I understand what you're trying to say, but I think that its weak. Hell, c. sound downright insane.

A-C are all possible, though I find it skeevy how hard you are working to try to make C sound as crazy as possible (which is just you continuing a very actie and aggressive defense of a case you deem weak.

Let's put it this way - if C is possible (and the earliest poster also lacks any other activity at that time) then C equates to a higher than totally random chance that the first post is scum, ergo it's a valid case, a case that is *good* for RVS, and a case that, though weak, within the context of th egame was by *FAR* the strongest case made.

And you are digging and dicking around with it.

It's skeevy.
You are skeevy.
(and you did throw shade)

58 makes sense, let's see those reads then. Although I don't think page 1 reads can really help scumhunting at this stage.

It at least requires him to establish reasons for having his tls...although he later walked it back to gut reads.

VOTE: Maxous

I like this for now.

Why Maxous over Moneybags?
Do you have no opinion on how Moneybags has interacted with both the push on you and Maxous?

I didn't think it was prompted at all. I was just throwing out additional notes.

What made you "throw out notes" on me and not Beefeater at that moment?

[Maxous]

uhh real mountain out of a molehill here guys.

i just felt Athena and Penguin were a bit towny in the first couple of posts. I didn't mention names because i wanted to avoid the Q&A but it happened anyway.

I have more solid town leans on Moneybags and Mozamis by this stage.

VOTE: Beefster

I guess?

His vote on #42 felt a bit weak. Felt a bit more like he wanted an excuse to vote there.

bit of a scum-lean on HWS too.

Uh, I think the argument for the first poster to be scum is weak

Penguin might've just been around when the game started, or had an email notification, or was doing mod stuff...

^
he's not reading

[Thor665]

Athena and Penguin were a bit towny in the first couple of posts. I didn't mention names because i wanted to avoid the Q&A but it happened anyway.

Why them at that stage?

And if you want to avoid questions in the future - don't mention that you have reads that you don't want to explain

[Thor665]

Looking at in in ISO I look forward to these leans being described.

[Moneybags]

What made you "throw out notes" on me and not Beefeater at that moment?

Is me alluding that Beefeater siding against you and with Penguin is fishy not considered throwing out a note on Beefeater? Or am I not understanding the question?
I don't see a difference in saying that vs making a comment on you going at penguin's throat. Which at this point is more clearly an interrogation and not a push for a lynch.