Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over

[Flubbernugget]

I don't understand either, but do note that Bella's pockets are roomy and warm.

Also, I have no clue why you're town reading texcat. Low content meta doesn't cut it. You still have to account for the very little scumhunting in what they had, which was a laughable pocketing accusation.

I agree that it was not a super serious accusation. Perhaps that smiley tipped you off?

So then, you're barely scumhunting, even for your activity.

[Beefster]

Moz seems a bit lynch focused.

[Errantparabola]

8 hour drive!

Beefster:

142 is pretty standard scumposting in my book. Tosses out a "possible scumread," qualifies it as just nothing later on when pressed to explain now that he can appease with a townread. Obviously not always scum here but I'm saying I think it's a bad post.

I'm actually not opposed to an Athena wagon in theory, but why the vote?

Moneybags:

I feel like scum would be more focused on "how can I subtlety change my mind on this" rather than just an outright 180.

I'm not saying you're wrong statistically but I'm also going to say that scum is capable of being a lot (to the point where an observation like this is useless to me) more unpredictable in this regard than you think. Especially when they don't think about this kind of stuff.

Flubber:

Your sudden focus on texcat doesn't make sense to me. What about her catchup that you reference in 179 is weird? Is it just lack of content?

It's atypical to have this many town reads, yes.

It's bound to happen with this dense of a game, especially when D1 reads/lynches so often boil down to "who isn't doing a lot."

VOTE: Maxous
Definitely the most agreeable leading wagon to me so I'll just join in. Don't rly have a solid read because he's terse but I can see scum playing like him-- throwing out a lot of opinions on certain posts or players for ultimately surface level reasons without presenting any cohesive gameview. No heart in his hunting.

[Thor665]

then you change your mind under a tiny bit of pressure?!
yep, Beef is scum.

He does indeed change his mind after it doesn't pan out. But it did distract people, like moz.

I'd love for either or both of you to describe to me where and how Beef changed his mind exactly.
He clearly changed his vote.
He never indicated in any way I can spot that he changed his mind.
Clarify?

For the record, Money shopping along with Moz's (as far as I can tell) unsupportable claim is another reason I am not a fan of the Moneybags slot.

One thing that worried me about Beef is that he was the first to "jump" on Thor after the latter brought up the timing argument which Thor then later said was to get out of RVS.

Just to clarify I never said that.
I probably said something like 'it got us out of RVS' - but I would never have said I pushed a case just to get out of RVS, because that would be bad play.

I really just feel like you're projecting your interpretation of what I was meaning with my beefster remark vs my remark on you.

I am not wrong about the timing.
And as I just said to you the timing is a big part of my issue.
So...this is empty word porn at this stage, it's making a lot of noise but has no soul.

Moz seems a bit lynch focused.

Why is that an issue worth mentioning?
Everyone should be lynched focused to some degree if they understand how the game works.

[Moneybags]

I'd love for either or both of you to describe to me where and how Beef changed his mind exactly.
He clearly changed his vote.
He never indicated in any way I can spot that he changed his mind.
Clarify?

I was echoing moz's terminology to describe how Beef went from "time to vote someone else" to "that didn't pan out, back to flubber". He said he's still suspicious of COA. At least for me, using that phrase was in reference to his vote change. I don't know if moz actually thinks it's deeper than that.


No comments on any of the points brought up against Flub?

[mozamis]

a - scumlean, as some of her posts are "empty content" to me. 185 bothers me a little bit. I thought I made my opinion on Maxous pretty clear and expressed I wasn't liking the Bella wagon. I feel like 185 could be Bella trying to side a "swing vote" in me, with her. Any thoughts? It's not something I'm pretty set on right now... but it's still there, y'know.

yes, i agree. a couple of her posts have been "talk to me about xyz", which can just be a scu way of posting without giving content.

[Moneybags]

Moneybags:

I feel like scum would be more focused on "how can I subtlety change my mind on this" rather than just an outright 180.

I'm not saying you're wrong statistically but I'm also going to say that scum is capable of being a lot (to the point where an observation like this is useless to me) more unpredictable in this regard than you think. Especially when they don't think about this kind of stuff.

At this point I'd have to say I agree. Early on it was enough for me to go on but now there may be enough evidence for me to think otherwise.

I didn't realize there was still a push for max. PP has had to step out for a bit and Bella has not been offering a lot of insight either. You've actually made the most valid case against him so far.

[mozamis]

Happy birthday to him then! Family is more important than MS of course

dont be a fool man!

[Thor665]

I'd love for either or both of you to describe to me where and how Beef changed his mind exactly.
He clearly changed his vote.
He never indicated in any way I can spot that he changed his mind.
Clarify?

I was echoing moz's terminology to describe how Beef went from "time to vote someone else" to "that didn't pan out, back to flubber". He said he's still suspicious of COA. At least for me, using that phrase was in reference to his vote change. I don't know if moz actually thinks it's deeper than that.


No comments on any of the points brought up against Flub?

How is changing a vote an issue?

@Moz - feel free to chime in here on my 253.

[Thor665]

No comments on any of the points brought up against Flub?

What points do you think I need to comment on exactly?
Short answer - no.

[mozamis]

Swims and Money town - so much content.
@ Thor - i guess i meant "changed his vote", not "changed his mind". He changed his vte when someoenasked him why he was voting Cult. looked like scum panicing to me.

P.O.E town: Moz, thor, swims,money,flubber,maxous and cult.

Lynch in: Penguin (drops out of town bloc because no scumhunting yet),Bella, Beef, errant,klick,tex
so we got to the coin flip stage!
my scum team is prob. bella, beef and ??? atm

[mozamis]

I didn't realize there was still a push for max. PP has had to step out for a bit and Bella has

could be a good catch. scum often dont push their reads.

[Thor665]

@Moz - to you I would repeat the question I asked Money - what's scummy about the vote change really? (also, maybe my memory is off, and it's late so I'm not ISOing - but didn't he answer when asked, and hold vote location, and then later move when I moved my vote to Flubber? - because that's how I'm remembering it, and if I'm right that seems like a very reasonable flow of vote location - what am I missing there?)

In other news, walk me through the idea that scum votes Athena at that moment.
Like, over half the game had just finished having a race to put her on their town lists.
Double fake out scum move?

[Thor665]

P.O.E town: Moz, thor, swims,money,flubber,maxous and cult.

Lynch in: Penguin (drops out of town bloc because no scumhunting yet),Bella, Beef, errant,klick,tex

I guess what's bugging me is most or your reads I agree with - except for Beef and Flubber (and very softly Swims, but I'm nullish there)
But I *heavily* disagree on both Flubber and Beef.
And your Beef push feels nonsensical.

[Thor665]

I guess Money too, but I'm maybe being paranoid there.
He is directionless enough he may just be town whose play bugs me.
But he's very empty feeling.

But defend the Beef thing.

[Moneybags]

My concerns stem from it being a strange thing to see right after flub starts taking heat. Which only matters in the context of both Beef and Flub being scum. If one or neither of them are scum then it's probably nothing. That whole post of beef quotes from me is mainly in context of his interactions with people that are suspect to me.

[CultOfAthena]

Hm, I feel like my posts are getting ignored here. I also didn't get really get any responses that I'm satisfied with from my questions. Is it my posting style?

[CultOfAthena]

I'm retracting my retraction on my mozamis read, which is to say that I'm fairly confident that he's town and is now posting exactly how I remember him to post from our last game together.

[CultOfAthena]

Pfft. I had my reasons. I just didn't feel like expressing them at the time. In my big reads post, I had her as null. (she was initially town before I posted my reads) I described her as "good questions. not much else" and after a couple more of her posts, it just solidified that her posts have been methodical and perhaps a little deceptive or misdirecting. I don't know if I can point to any particular post or line.

I haven't really been paying super close attention. I was juggling 2 other games with AGDQ.

It seems to me like you're scumreading me for my playstyle or the way that I talk moreso than any actual in-game reason. When you say that you haven't been paying super close attention, what is that meant to tell us? Is that some comment with regard to the level of confidence in your scumread on me, or what? It seems to me like you're "hedging" a read on me – trying to test the waters to see how people react more than having something to actually go on. I get the same feeling from you moving your vote off of me right after initially voting, which I wouldn't expect someone with genuine convictions or some kind of actual lead to do.

[CultOfAthena]

Texcat has done nothing to make me remember that he is in this game.

[CultOfAthena]

Go into detail on that please? I'm very curious where you're getting a scumread on me from Bella.

Why did you completely ignore everything I said in 186 to ask Bella about why she agreed with me? Am I a leper or something?

[CultOfAthena]

I eagerly await PenguinPower's re-entrance to the thread.

[Thor665]

My concerns stem from it being a strange thing to see right after flub starts taking heat. Which only matters in the context of both Beef and Flub being scum. If one or neither of them are scum then it's probably nothing. That whole post of beef quotes from me is mainly in context of his interactions with people that are suspect to me.

I get that your scum read of Beefster is in correlation to your other reads.
I just fail to see how the vote switch is somehow scummy even within that context.

Hm, I feel like my posts are getting ignored here. I also didn't get really get any responses that I'm satisfied with from my questions. Is it my posting style?

If you feel like you're being ignored or not getting responses then, yes, it's your posting style.
Note how when I ask a question and it's not answered I keep quoting it and asking again and again?
I get answers that way.
It's my posting style.

[mozamis]

I'm retracting my retraction on my mozamis read, which is to say that I'm fairly confident that he's town and is now posting exactly how I remember him to post from our last game together.

you gotta love the moz

[mozamis]

But I *heavily* disagree on both Flubber and Beef.
And your Beef pus

i am having problems with my touchpad, so quoting is tricky.
main thing thast pinged me abotu beef was tha tbig reads list post of his, that just looked so effing vague and empty.
yes, i also thought he looked a bit panicky when he changed his vote quickly. but it was that reads list that just looked like BS to me.
as to voting Cult when no one ese does, scum often do that as a "safe" vote park. It's never gonna flip and they will never be o na mislynch. Plus it has that appearance of "original" sum hunting.