Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over

[Maxous]

VOTE: Errantparabola

may as well put my vote somewhere

[Transcend]

i have to actually remember why i tr max because that vote was pretty ass just now

[Transcend]

errant's a low info lynch, i'd rather spend the lynch on someone who will provide lots of info.

[Transcend]

Like I'm sure the dude wouldn't stoop to making up a life emergency to avoid giving content

Now he still could be scum But i want to flip someone with more alignmenty posts.

Besides if ep flips town, we lose a very valuable asset.

[Maxous]

meh, who's the options.

I think Flubber and Beefster are town, so no interest there.
I don't think there's any point voting Thor and all i have is he just doesn't feel right.
RC and transcend are locked to PR claims.
CoA? No, while she has dropped off recently her early posting was very good, imo.
Moneybags and Klick? No, they would be my strongest town reads.
HeWhoSwims really feels town but even if he's scum i think it would be easier to tell as the game wears on due to lack of experience i'm reading from the slot.

Mozamis and Texcat are maybes atm. I could vote there if it comes to it

[Transcend]

Meh

[Transcend]

Can We at least let the dude come back and defend himself first

[Maxous]

well it's not like he's gonna be hammered

[Thor665]

if someone can towncase coa then i'll happily laeave her alone

I already raised a town debate with her with you - was told that X doing Y was not a valid town case and then asked you to explain what was a valid town case since that is the basis of basically every case ever and you never replied.
Want to answer me now?

I daresay that you are aware that if I was scum who wanted to mislynch you I could do a lot better than that.

If you were town and testing me you could do better too. I disappeared site wide for around 30 hours - and you want to say it's because in this game I was scum who got scared so much of you I needed to do so?
How do you even begin to reach that conclusion?
Like - have you ever seen me as scum hide from anyone ever?
Why do you think i would?
What would I even gain if I did?
Are you only able to tell if I'm scum within the first 24 hours or something?

This isn't exactly related to the game. But it matters because this is the first time I've had any personal interest in a Mafia game in over three years. I'm going to be extremely bothered if that ends early because someone replaces into the vig slot, randomly scumreads me, doesn't have any reasoning, and shoots me while completely ignoring me asking them to justify themselves. That's why I'm making such a big deal out of this.

That's called luck of the draw. It's like being afraid to go in the water for fear of a shark attacking you. Yes, it could happen - but are you supposed to change your lifestyle over it?

That leaves my available options as texcat, EP, Thor, Maxous, and HWS. I do think the scumteam is within these five players.

If you think I'm scum why did you ask me to save you from TranscendVig?
It's not like I've shown any particular control over him that I'm aware of, so...?

someone define scum!EP

plz

Opportunistic voter who is lurking.
I would challenge you to point out any original thought he has offered or stance he stated before anyone else - and would be willing to wager a reasonable amount of money that you couldn't which makes me think I'm correct in thinking he hasn't.
That reads as scum to me.
Why do you not scum read him?

1. Scum is primarily lurking, with a potential scum or two in Thor/HWS avoiding obvious lynch option Beefster while also not talking it down.

I have openly defended Beefster multiple times, and even acted proud about it once - what are you talking about?

Where I'm at right now is that if Flubber is scum, several of the people I think might be scum are probably town

I could see me and maaaaaybe Money (who you claim to already town read).
So what are you talking about?

errant's a low info lynch, i'd rather spend the lynch on someone who will provide lots of info.

No info lynches are an illusion.
Or maybe info lynches are illusions.
Same difference.
Also, if you agree he's a "low info" lynch then you're already halfway to agreeing with my case on him.

[Flubbernugget]

Beefster's reevaluation doesn't look natural

What re-evaluation?

Yeah, I have time to talk about this now.

First, we can dissect all the lamist bullshit in 632. I misread it as a re-evaluation as opposed to a flat-out submission, but my issue in it lies elsewhere. First, "saying lynch me for info" doesn't solve the game. It absolves you from having to take responsibility for your actions, and it flat-out

does not

assist town. It gives you a free pass to do nothing, which is actually creating

less

information for town.

Lets look at this compared to the rest of your ISO. There's no frustration. There's no considerations or evaluations that your reads may actually be wrong. There's just this "gut" thing being thrown out to look good.

But...very interestingly...your scum reads got called out for the entirety of the page before 632. You got caught, and cracked under the pressure.

My town read on you stemmed from you being self-aware, but I now see that it was just a sign of you needing to leave your reads open to hide from suspicion.

[Flubbernugget]

like i'm pretty sure he realized that at some point if he seemed derpy enough he could push scum wincon like a legendary motherfucker

To be completely honest, I'm reading moz as town for being reactionary and gut reading what they see in a similar manner to how I am seeing your play.

[Flubbernugget]

I have never indicated in any way shape or form that I agreed with your meta read.
I have repeatedly indicated I thought your reads were made up and asked you to back them up.
I agree it's a small thing - which is why your inability/refusal to provide it is a big thing.

Please prove you weren't lying to try to call me scum in a scummy way.
Any century now?

This is a lie.

You did not ask me to back my reads up. You asked me to back my meta read of you up (apparently...I still think you used wishy washy language to give yourself breathing room for a push). I had a whole wall of town reads you have made no mention of, yet you still have evidence that I'm faking my reads? hahaha no.

You never actually commented on why I thought tex was scum. You voted me on some other fake grounds as to how I'm reading you.

You voting for me over texcat and then backpedaling to explain why I am scum shows preferential treatment of one player to another. That is scum motivated.

You pushing me to be attentive to the game at a higher standard than other players shows preferential treatment of one player to another. That is scum motivated.

[Flubbernugget]

i have to actually remember why i tr max because that vote was pretty ass just now

Yeah, my town read of them eroded a while ago.

[HeWhoSwims]

Flubber, TC; if Flubber is town then why don't you defend the arguments against him?

I too think we should hear more from EP but obviously life emergency gets priority yada yada.

[Flubbernugget]

I like that question because it means if you can't get a lynch on me you can turn on transcend for either A) being on a bad wagon, or B) whiteknighting a bad wagon

[HeWhoSwims]

Not what I was going for. There are suspicions against you. If TC seems sure you're town, why? How should I turn on TC, he's practically conftown. Being wrong in a read doesn't make you scum. Today's wagon is gonna be 7 people, and if it's a mislynch, then certainly not all 7 are scum no?

[Flubbernugget]

Yeah,I had a mental lapse about TC's claim. But that actually makes you questioning TC's play even more strange. This might pan out to be interesting.

[texcat]

Who is TC? Do you mean RC?

[texcat]

like i'm pretty sure he realized that at some point if he seemed derpy enough he could push scum wincon like a legendary motherfucker

To be completely honest, I'm reading moz as town for being reactionary and gut reading what they see in a similar manner to how I am seeing your play.

LOL This is a pet peeve of mine and usually a pretty good scum tell. Does this mean that you haven't been completely honest in your other posts?

[Flubbernugget]

It's been well established that moz is a tough town read to actually explain. Are you arguing they're scum?

[HeWhoSwims]

I'm not doubting TC (meaning Transcend @tex) alignment or claim, I've mentioned my thoughts on that before. I just want him to talk since he's conftown and discussion is good.

[Klick]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

I think I'm wrong about one of my townreads on the Beef wagon, and I think this is by far the most likely. I've put together that originally my gut townread of Flubber was essentially based on this idea: Flubber looks "traditionally" scummy, but a lot of that is largely due to his play style, therefore he's town being misunderstood. But there's a flaw in that; he should have been a null read, not a townread. My gut was screaming because the suspicions in him seemed unfounded, not because he was doing towny things.

I do realize that this essentially leaves me voting a null read still, and I do still think the primary reasons for suspecting Flubber are silly. Thor's case in particular feels very weak, and nothing else is compelling me. But I have exactly zero compelling scumreads at the moment, and this is a wagon I'm merely satisfied with. Transcend claiming vig really shot my reads in the foot.

[mozamis]

VOTE: Errantparabola

may as well put my vote somewhere

god this is bad.
i'm still up for money, but anyone up for maxous? coasting scum.

@ RC - Errant has consistently been in my "happy to lynch pile" for a while. He's not my fav. choice though as i feel its a lurker lynch. Whereas Money, Max and Hewho i think are more scummy. Errants a bit of a lucky dip.
As for the flubber thing, that was a long time ago, i cant remember it, and i've changed my read on him since.
Why would Flubberscum! consistently attack one of the most Townie read players in the game, Thor?!

[mozamis]

and max voting Errant makes me less keen on Errant lynch.

[mozamis]

@ kilck - you didnt give one single reason for voting flubber.