Micro 768: Geriatric Grey Flag Nightless - Game Over

[Hopkirk]

I’m still happy with the Ari lynch, but I would like Reckoner’s V/La to end before we end the day.

@Insanity: My dislike of those reads is largely like the first point- how they form the reads. It’s not that they have reads I disagree with, but that they have reads I disagree with that I don’t really buy the thought process for.
What I thought you should have noticed is a pretty minor point. You didn’t comment when I quoted the wrong post, despite it making the post look quite confusing. It seemed slightly odd you didn’t notice if you scumread me substantially- since you’d probably then be reading my posts more closely (and you made the post after it). I can see plenty of town reasons for not mentioning it, but I’d kind of like to know which one it was.

193 from Ari feels like trying to avoid giving associations. His reads still aren’t clear.

TGP is inconsistent in multiple ways as Insanity pointed out, so there’s not much point me repeating it. However, 196 from Ari doesn’t really sound like someone talking to a partner.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Welcome to the game TheGoldenParadox.

I don't believe this hammer should happen yet. From my understanding of the game Ari looks too much like town for this nonsense, which looks slightly like a scum-piled wagon. I'm pretty sure we'll find scum currently on this wagon, because I'm not sure of Ari's guilt.
UNVOTE: Aristophanes
I'm ok with Korts, pretty townie posting from what I can see. Reck looks fine too.
Hopkirk is slightly leaning scum to me.
ASP is null: not enough posts to determine yet.
Jingle looks townie. I like their game progression.
That leaves Keychain.
I'm almost 100% sure scum is within Ari, Key, Hop.
Right now I prefer lynching hopkirk simply because they look more scummy. key+Hop is a viable scumteam.
VOTE: Hopkirk

There's quite a few inconsistencies here.

If you think Aristophanes is 'too much like town', why do you then conclude that you're '100% sure scum is within Ari, Key, Hop'?

What are you finding scummy about Hopkirk? Especially, why do you think he's more worth voting than Aristophanes?

If you believe that this is a scum-piled wagon, why 2/3 of your scumreads off the wagon?

I'll answer this one line at a time;
I conclude that Ari looks too much like town right now for a direct lynch, but I want to hear from him before concluding. I still think based on his posts that there's a very reasonable chance he's scum, but I'm not sold on the wagon.

I am finding Hopkirk scummy because of inconsistencies with town meta and looking like he is trying to look like he is contributing without actually contributing or moving the game forward.

2/3 of my scumreads are off the wagon because I'm still not sold on either Korts or you, and I believe that the proportion of possible scum combined with the level of scumread I have on them makes it more than the same for off of the wagon.
BTW "fine with" doen't mean I'm necessarily TRing them, it just means I don't have a great scumread case against them.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I don't believe this hammer should happen

yet

. From my understanding of the game Ari looks too much like town

for this nonsense

, which looks

slightly

like a scum-piled wagon. I'm

pretty sure

we'll find scum currently on this wagon, because I'm

not sure of Ari's guilt

.
VOTE: Hopkirk

Notice bolded parts.
Also, I plan on playing this geriatric like a normal game, which means I'll make as many posts as I want without giving a crap until my reserve is depleted, in which case I'll just wait a day.

[Hopkirk]

@TGP: You’re still saying you think Ari is town and scum at the same time. Do you mean:

a.) You’re not sure about Ari
b.) Ari is scummy and you think a partner(s) is bussing (this seems like the best match for what I think you’re trying to say)
c.) He’s scummy, but not scummy enough to lynch
d.) You want something else before you can sort him
e.) He’s probably town
f.) He’s probably scum
g.) Something else
Withholding other comments until I can understand what you mean.

@TGP: Which of my town games have you read that you think I’m inconsistent with? Are you saying you’ve metadived me?

[TheGoldenParadox]

@TGP: You’re still saying you think Ari is town and scum at the same time. Do you mean:

a.) You’re not sure about Ari
b.) Ari is scummy and you think a partner(s) is bussing (this seems like the best match for what I think you’re trying to say)
c.) He’s scummy, but not scummy enough to lynch
d.) You want something else before you can sort him
e.) He’s probably town
f.) He’s probably scum
g.) Something else
Withholding other comments until I can understand what you mean.

@TGP: Which of my town games have you read that you think I’m inconsistent with? Are you saying you’ve metadived me?

b, c, and d
Yes, I'm saying I've metadived you.

[insanity018]

TheGoldenParadox feels like he's hedging his bets on Ari

But you're right in that it's really weird that he'd then make that comment in 93 about Jingle being scum but not acting on it. That suggests that the lack of retaliation I townread might be a deliberate choice.

Like despite voicing a scumread, he's not acting on it.

Is that what you mean regarding it not seeming like a town thought process or am I missing your point?

Pretty much the bolded, yes. Ari has not put a serious vote on anyone. The closest he has come to seriously scumreading someone is calling Jingle scum pushing a narrative or that his case his convenient. But, Ari still doesn't vote Jingle or really do anything that might be helpful to sorting Jingle. Really, Ari doesn't seem interested in sorting anyone or finding scum. This doesn't seem consistent with a town thought process to me.

Why do you see Aristophanes' thought process as coming from town?

I@Insanity: My dislike of those reads is largely like the first point- how they form the reads. It’s not that they have reads I disagree with, but that they have reads I disagree with that I don’t really buy the thought process for.
What I thought you should have noticed is a pretty minor point. You didn’t comment when I quoted the wrong post, despite it making the post look quite confusing. It seemed slightly odd you didn’t notice if you scumread me substantially- since you’d probably then be reading my posts more closely (and you made the post after it). I can see plenty of town reasons for not mentioning it, but I’d kind of like to know which one it was.

Okay, your posts just gave the impression that the reads themselves were part of the problem.

It just was pretty obvious to me that you had misquoted. Compared to trying to parse Aristophanes' misquotes and jumbled posts above yours, yours was easy to work out. Unless you're trying to make your posts confusing on purpose? And, screwing up formatting is not alignment indicative so I didn't think it was worth mentioning.

[Korts]

Sorry, I've been a bit busier than I expected the last couple days. I will try to get something constructive in today.

[Jingle]

@mod

- Any news on ASP?

Also looking forward to the return of the Reckoner.

[Hopkirk]

@TGP: You’re still saying you think Ari is town and scum at the same time. Do you mean:

a.) You’re not sure about Ari
b.) Ari is scummy and you think a partner(s) is bussing (this seems like the best match for what I think you’re trying to say)
c.) He’s scummy, but not scummy enough to lynch
d.) You want something else before you can sort him
e.) He’s probably town
f.) He’s probably scum
g.) Something else
Withholding other comments until I can understand what you mean.

@TGP: Which of my town games have you read that you think I’m inconsistent with? Are you saying you’ve metadived me?

b, c, and d
Yes, I'm saying I've metadived you.

Can you give an indication of this and what you learnt?

@Insanity: Posts aren't meant to be confusing. The misquote was a mistake. Your reason is one of the town/NAI responses I was thinking of so I don't have a problem with it.

Reading Insanity as town now. I like her tone over our interactions, and most of the problems I had have been resolved.

[Korts]

f you could go into some kind of depth on your Ari read, I would find that really helpful. Like for/against him being scum.

1. His response (in 48) to Jingle's RVS VT claim was hella manipulative. "Feeling uneasy" and "it just feels wrong" were put forth as the reasons why the obvious joke is a point against Jingle. This was after Jingle's other RVS joke, a scumclaim, had already been taken up as a conversation-starting vehicle - and would have been a stronger argument to push. It's just disingenuous, especially with his refusal to vote along with it and put Jingle to L-1.
2. His stance regarding L-1 caution, by the way, is not consistent with his actions in his latest finished games, and his response to Jingle's observation of this has been lackluster - and can be summed up with his last word in 90: "meh."
3. In fact, in 95, he tries to turn it around on Jingle to say that the metadive is fake scumhunting.
4. In 60, he engages in the old "I would totally do that if I was scum" argument to discredit Jingle's expectation of town behavior.

All of this I find scummier the more I look at it.

I'm reluctant to take his level of activity and contribution as an indicator of alignment, but what little game-relevant material he has posted recently is just about defending himself, which doesn't help at all.

[Keychain]

That is only really arguing in favour of him being scum, which isn't quite the pro/con thing I was looking for, but thank you anyway.

Why do you see Aristophanes' thought process as coming from town?

While in 90 he gives way, in 91 he actually still acknowledges that to some extent he may have been wrong but says that he believes his story was consistent. If he was scum being inconsistent I think he would have tried to draw attention away from the inconsistency.

From 93 he carries this through and expresses suspicion against Jingle. This makes more sense to me from town who believes they are in the right.

However the more he stalls and evades the thread, the more twitchy I get about this townread.


I've got a long weekend! So I'm going to be away for a wee while. I'm hoping when I get back there'll be content from Reck, Ari and the ASP slot to work with maybe.

@Mod: V/LA for three days.

[Aristophanes]

I've got a long weekend! So I'm going to be away for a wee while. I'm hoping when I get back there'll be content from Reck, Ari and the ASP slot to work with maybe.

Me too

[Lord Gurgi]

V/LA registered. Search for ASP replacement is in progress.

[insanity018]

@Mod, can we get a prod on xRECKONERx?

@Keychain, thanks for your response. I still disagree with you that those things make Ari more likely to be town. I notice that you're still voting CultofAthena/Hopkirk. Do you have any thoughts on Hopkirk's play since replacing into the slot?

[Aristophanes]

Don't let this influence the votes, but Imma replace out N1 if I live through today. I will at least make it to then, but I'm pulling the game dowb and I know it.

Really sorry all!

[Hopkirk]

I asked you to elaborate on your reads a week ago. You've given no clear indication of who you read, how you read them, or why. That really doesn't seem like a pro-town response to being wagoned in this situation.

[Aristophanes]

I know

[Aristophanes]

I didn't mean to submit, sorry.

I kniw. I have set time aside for this on 4 separate days and each time sit down then get up. I have no will to play this game in particular and it's unfair to you all.

I have no intention of dying or replacing without giving those thoughts and I am sorry for the empty promises. I know I am the thing stalling the game thus I will not continue after D1.

I made a commitment to the game though and I will fulfill it!

[TheGoldenParadox]

Ari-
That happens to all of us, and honestly the thing that I would do is just replace out.
Honestly it's just a game. If you don't wish to play it, let someone else take your spot.

[Lord Gurgi]

BlackVoid replaces A Simple Plan. xRECKONERx has been prodded.

[xRECKONERx]

TheGoldenParadox feels like he's hedging his bets on Ari

You said this as I thought it.

Also hi, I'm back, and exhausted. I plan to stick around and I read the last couple pages. If anyone has anything specific they want me to address, can you point it out? Otherwise I would be fine with Ari now, I think. Also, Insanity continues to be my top townread

[BlackVoid]

Hi. I'll be catching up over the next few days. As a heads up, I'm usually online in the mornings and after midnight.

[Jingle]

Ari, on the off chance you are actually town, I'm sorry for sapping your want to play this game, I really would appreciate a readslist, even if its just a list from town to scum with gut listed by all of them.

If you're scum, I'm still sorry for sapping your want to play this game, but this is how I play mafia. I know that it can lead to people not having fun around me, and I'm sorry, but I have never been as successful when I try to be less prickly. Just know, whatever your alignment, that I still like you as a person and hope you can say the same about me.

With that said, I intend to vote Ari in the next day or two. I see no problem with a hammer at this point, although I think BlackVoid should get about 24 hours to catch up and share any earth shattering conclusions before then.

If I'm right, I should be the only possible vengekill option, particularly since my schedule should open up significantly now that I'm not actively involved with half a dozen other things on site that I can't talk about publicly.

If I'm wrong, Ari is the only person whose opinion cannot be heard post flip. I'm not seeing a lot forthcoming there either way. A replacement really can't argue down what is scummy about his play. He's been the lynch consensus for more than half of the game at this point. Taking more time is just a waste of ours.

[Jingle]

Actually

VOTE: Aristophanes

Puts him back to L-1, which I have no problem with.

Apparently the Ray replace switched to Hopkirk.

[xRECKONERx]

I really want to hammer that.