Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[Almost50]

start with what your take is on me v lld v math?

Not interested. I think I'm better off reading the 3 of you independently. You guys tunneled us in that game. LLD tunneled me in another game (where we both were Town). So, it follows I know both you and LLD could be this tunneled against each other when you're both Town, and -of course- that doesn't take away the chances of either being Scum, or even BOTH having decided to play it out like that. (I'm sure read somewhere that all PTs were unlocked in pre-game, so planning ahead is very much likely.)

My problem is in "tone reading" (Chara always spares me that when we play in the hydra). I go by mechanical/logical analysis. This is why I have no explicit TRs yet. Just Town Leans that could easily have been misreading someone's tone.

[skirt skirt]

but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

I'll probably stop arguing regarding this matter, but ask Chara if they would say they could reliably predict what I'd do had my team rolled a Scum role at all! I mean, having just won as SK I would expect investigative roles to be all over me just in case. This means it'd be suicidal for me to pick a scum role to begin with. I don't want to get into hypothetical claims, so I;m not going to ask anyone to out there target if they were Cop. Just answer it to yourself and decide if it would be wise for me to volunteer to play a Scum role to begin with.

Suffice it to say, if I was Scum and there's a Cop I'm likely caught on N1. It won't be even for anything wrong I'd do. It'd be because many players (including my own hydra p) are promoting me as a good scum player, but neglecting to say I'm also clever enough not to pick a scum role -under the circumstances- if given the choice.

I want to place KeyChain in the Town lean pile for now.

Almost Chara. I correctly towned you until CHEET.. .. .. .. That game Chara said that you were the significantly better one as scum, and that chara everyone thought was good at scum but that had no backing.

irrelevancy aside, we are past rvs so this is an unimportant path to go down. I'm policy copping lld over you if I'm a cop, no offense. you've given very little in your posts. start with what your take is on me v lld v math?

radio update: you've now made 17 posts and produced next to no actual alignment indicative content, on or about anyone.

pedit: 18, you spent the 18th saying almost nothing too in response to a prod for content. I also didn't tunnel you, that was cheet though id barely call that a tunnel, though I lit charas ass up when he called me scum and reversed that back to a tr. Also also, I've been pretty clear I think LLD is town, so it's not a 1v1, just a derptunnel thing that again isn't really even a tunnel from lld's end.

[Almost50]

Vote stands, will justify it if anyone asks but I don't really feel like doing that rn.

Entertain me. Or does MY request for a justification not count?

[Almost50]

radio update: you've now made 17 posts and produced next to no actual alignment indicative content, on or about anyone.

You can count alright, but you don't seem to be able to READ. *Shrug*

[Bulbazak]

Caught up, and Keychain is still kinda nebulous. I'm going to keep an eye there, but not interested in pushing that yet. I thought Elena might be panicking scum trying to squash Math's team analysis (which is actually relevant to Team Mafia). That seems like something I feel scum would do if events were turning against them. But then she did that reversal on LLD after much discussion, and I really can't see Elena-scum doing that, especially when keeping a vote on LLD would be so easy to do at this point in the game, and I really don't think LLD could apply enough pressure to turn the tides on Elena. At best, she'd get a LLD lynch, and at worse, she'd just look like hard headed town. There's really nothing to lose, so her changing her read is a town sign.

As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways.

Vote Skirt skirt

[skirt skirt]

radio update: you've now made 17 posts and produced next to no actual alignment indicative content, on or about anyone.

You can count alright, but you don't seem to be able to READ. *Shrug*

(use a spoiler)
quote me what ai stuff you've said in your iso in your opinion. cause to me, it's a lot of weird spec that has very little relevance.

[skirt skirt]

"As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways."

Where did i call you town? Where did i buddy up to you? On what planet am I tryharding?

[Almost50]

Now excuse me while I go try to scum hunt in 4 other threads as well. (Oh, boy! The only good thing about his is I'm guaranteed not to confuse games because not a single player is playing in two games)

P-edit: Can't do that right now. Suffice it to say I have crumbed my role somewhere. Now go find it.

[skirt skirt]

...but what scumhunting have you done in this game? your vote is rvs and you haven't given a single read or prong.

[Dunkerdoodles]

Caught up, and Keychain is still kinda nebulous. I'm going to keep an eye there, but not interested in pushing that yet. I thought Elena might be panicking scum trying to squash Math's team analysis (which is actually relevant to Team Mafia). That seems like something I feel scum would do if events were turning against them. But then she did that reversal on LLD after much discussion, and I really can't see Elena-scum doing that, especially when keeping a vote on LLD would be so easy to do at this point in the game, and I really don't think LLD could apply enough pressure to turn the tides on Elena. At best, she'd get a LLD lynch, and at worse, she'd just look like hard headed town. There's really nothing to lose, so her changing her read is a town sign.

As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways.

Vote Skirt skirt

bit of a reach

[Almost50]

@Eddie: Go read one or two of my Scum games. Maybe then you will notice something different from the way I play here.

P.S. I do NOT know what difference(s) you might find. If I'm aware of a tell of mine I immediately either adopt it as either alignment or work on eliminating it from my play altogether. I consider my Town play to be very similar to my Scum play on level surface.

[Dunkerdoodles]

bulba/skirt probably not svs

[Almost50]

...but what scumhunting have you done in this game? your vote is rvs and you haven't given a single read or prong.

I'm not going to use the "I've got both brothers and their families over" as an excuse, but I certainly have done the most I could have done given the content of the posts so far. Yes, we have over 7 pages of posts, but what's the ratio of "true game-based content" to "irrelevant, void, spam and what not"?

[skirt skirt]

...but what scumhunting have you done in this game? your vote is rvs and you haven't given a single read or prong.

I'm not going to use the "I've got both brothers and their families over" as an excuse, but I certainly have done the most I could have done given the content of the posts so far. Yes, we have over 7 pages of posts, but what's the ratio of "true game-based content" to "irrelevant, void, spam and what not"?

I mean, I can call dunker obv town as fuck, lld misguided town, math probably town, Elena probably town, cdb scum lean from my partner, keychain town from my partner, bulbazak scum lean because burden of being good is you don't get away with stupid ass pushes like that, you get to be null because I do believe this is a playstyle thing however I do also think you're a good wagon rn and being utterly useless, and those reads are not based on picking role pms spec. I used roll pm spec to generate content and get out of rvs, it worked, sue me. There is plenty of content to get reads from.

[Keychain]

Oh look more people!

I'm definitely going to be taking their input onboard because that's part of the fun of the team thing and I also think it'll help with my weaknesses as town. But only to the extent that I agree with it or find it worth pursuing, since I'm the one playing the game.

Why no vote when we already have some information rather than starting from scratch?

Also keen to hear your answer to your question.

What information do we have here? Also why do you feel like (or want) me to vote? It's a RVS vote and it does not acomplish much at all this talk on "Player A prefs (town/scum)" is a huge wifom fest like I could tell you: My mains pref scum but on my tryhard account I pref town but that really does help nothing because it's a huge wifom as I already said
What does voting do for you

As to answer your question (or my own) I will mostly be working solo/not asking for help as I want to be the helper not the help...e? If my team has a strong read I will hear it but mostly I will be doing things myself why did you want my answer over others?

The WIFOM

is

the information. Normally you start a game and town has zero information because everyone has the same chance of being scum. We started this game with just a little bit more. Obviously yes it isn't the be all and end all, but it's a starting point that you ignored and here seem to be arguing against using it at all. I suppose it makes sense since I've heard you'd be likely to pick a scum role if you had the option. Players expected to take scum (and especially who

did

take scum) will presumably always try and deemphasise the whole selection thing.

To me, voting builds game momentum. I guess to me it feels like... it's like we're all sitting in a car talking about where to go but it's only by placing votes that we actually move anywhere. That's just me though.

I wanted your answer because you asked the question but didn't answer it.

VOTE: Elena Fisher

Your icebreaker question was awkward and most of your early content in 66 and onwards was putting the brakes on rather than advancing the game with what you thought we should be doing instead.

I sometimes find it hard to read your posts, my apologies. After 102 are you still scumreading LLD?

[Radja]

@Radja: Nah. Another day.

I also don't want to accidentally bait people tournament-wide into breaking the rules.

Radja if you're here give thoughts on skirt vs LLD.

Edit: lol I seriously doubt Transcend is reading too deeply but I appreciate it

I'm not feeling a skirt scumread right now. I don't really see it and the tone thing I'm not feeling. LLD's entrance felt a bit rehearsed to me, but obv she has to post something like that. I've only played Survivor with LLD, so I'm hoping my teammates can help me sort her, if she really is as good at playing scum as she says she is. I'm curious to know why you have her as town so early.

[Mathdino]

I'll write up a patented lolcase on A50 in a bit.

Bulbazak's entrance is completely and 100% NAI, which is fairly concerning.

Keychain I gut-disagree with you on Elena's motivation there. You're basically suggesting that scum would come into the thread and shit all over the information we have and be like "WELL MY JOB HERE IS DONE" and fuck right off. Makes much more sense coming from town that just complains about shit a lot.

Radja, I have LLD as town right now because her posts seem town-motivated and she seems to think her reads are an objective thing that people will pick up on (they're not but whatever). We're probably gonna have to PR-clear her or paranoia-lynch her at some point, but it's a bad D1 lynch.

[ChannelDelibird]

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game

Dunker hadn't yet posted by the time that you made this post. Why did you already believe that he is town?

I would be surprised if CDB comes back and goes scum after however many years (or has he been playing recently?).

Forgive me if I've forgotten, but have we played together before?

[Mathdino]

1. CDB, have you not yet read the meta-arguments for people choosing their side, or do you just disagree with that logic?

2. We haven't but I'm pretty sure you're the most famous scummer from

that

side of the pond. You've shown up in more than a few older reads. You come off as someone who would be more comfortable with town unless practiced.

give us reads o english one

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm interested in your Elena nullread, I'm leaning more scum there.

I'm trying really hard to imagine someone actually being interested in the nature of someone's page-one null read, and I can't.

[Radja]

I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game, Radja I guess I agree. Bins from what I remember hates scum so yea that's fine too. Don't know CDB or T-Bone play-wise at all so no comment.

UCV... I guess. No clue for bulba. LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

There are others in the string of posts that are kind of in the same offensive vein, but this is the post that is most damning to me.

Can you walk me through what's wrong with this? I am seriously not feeling it(and I feel like it's keeping me from getting involved in the game)

[Mathdino]

You could also just not tone-read and have a much easier life that way

Waffling is not a scumtell no matter how much LLD's generation of scummers think it is. I waffle as town naturally and then I just learned to not do that shit and then I stopped getting lynched.

If experienced scum is doing that, it's either a towntell or it's something intentional.

I need reads on Bulbazak.

[skirt skirt]

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game

Dunker hadn't yet posted by the time that you made this post. Why did you already believe that he is town?

I would be surprised if CDB comes back and goes scum after however many years (or has he been playing recently?).

Forgive me if I've forgotten, but have we played together before?

pre game role pm bullshit, though now I do actually hard town read dunker off of play and my teammates who have lots of keychain experience towned her too

[Radja]

Happy to reiterate.

As explained earlier, the difference that startled me between Mathdino and SkirtSkirt is CONVICTION. You can tell that whether Mathdino puts much stock in these early game meta reads or not, this is what he believes and he stands behind it. This is what I expect town to do in this position, in this game, with that post.

SkirtSkirt does NOT hold that same tonal conviction. He doesn't show that same kind of presentation of his reads, he won't live or die by them and that's reasonable given they're early meta reads but it strikes me that despite being "Reasonable" this is how I would expect scum to handle that particular position. They would play safer, and not get locked down in those meta reads. It gives them something to point back to, to say "I have a progression of reads, starting with some early suspicion here" but not actually commiting anything.

Whether anyone would actually call them out for commiting to something they felt was wrong is irrelevant here. It is whether scum would be concerned this would happen. Scum are far more paranoid than town with this kind of action, especially early.

That's the problem. That'[s why Math is town and Skirt isn't, in my mind.

Okay I found this post now so scratch that last question. Where do you see the difference in conviction here? Skirt skirt's "I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game" seems pretty lock-town to me? I mean, he's going to have a tough time backtracking from reads like that? Or am I missing something here?

[ChannelDelibird]

1. CDB, have you not yet read the meta-arguments for people choosing their side, or do you just disagree with that logic?

This seems to be implying that I poo-pooed an argument of this kind of somewhere, which I don't remember doing. I've skimmed most of the thread already before this proper read, so technically I have read some of the meta talk, and generally I'm in favour. I mean, I'm literally voting for LLD right now because I think that, if her team got at least one scum PM, she took one. But it's harder for me to connect to some of those meta-reads w/r/t people I don't know, which unfortunately covers most of the players in this game. The fact that most of those meta-reads will be being made by people I also don't know makes it harder for me to put blind faith in them. So I'm probably going to be nice and hypocritical about it, pushing on my own meta reads while mostly ignoring other people's.

2. We haven't but I'm pretty sure you're the most famous scummer from

that

side of the pond. You've shown up in more than a few older reads. You come off as someone who would be more comfortable with town unless practiced.

Apologies to my fellow Brits, I suppose, but you're correct that I would prefer being town in this scenario. I would have been willing to play scum to protect other members of my team if needs be, but luckily that wasn't necessary.

give us reads o english one

This is me working on that right now. I was gonna read up, take notes, and do a big post but it looks like it's shaping up to be more updates-as-I-go.