Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[LicketyQuickety]

I dont believe anyones self meta, especially when its presented in as an attempt to answer an attack on them.

a) I don't think I have written off marquis as null. Or rather, my position on marquis is more nuanced than that. I declared him to be pretty null on the content of his posts alone, specifically in response to the wagon and LLamarble saying he was very scummy. If you read my post about team commentary, I note that Will thinks he's a lean town, whereas I think that is too strong, and I find that his lack of existence today and lack of response to the wagon makes me think the pressure is in a good spot, which makes me null-scum read him. Giving some deference to my teammate who has a lot more experience with him I am not pushing him right now, but I don't want that wagon to go anywhere until he comes back.

Will never gave a read on marqu here:

Heres a braindump of some reck stuff. I'll try to post my teammates commentary in regular and my commentary in italics, but if you have any confusion about what is coming from whom, let me know.

Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.

Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.

He thinks LQs catchup is literally the exact opposite of his opinions and also completely underwhelming and he thinks that he would be voting LQ here. He also notes that LQ is quick (heh) to pump the breaks on marquis when there isn't really any reason too

(wagon deflation? buddying? Genuine town alarm at the growth of the wagon? could be any of these.)

He likes CES calling it out.

He points out that LLamarble is usually more jumpy than this as town. He tends to throw attacks every which way to feel people out and see what sticks, not lock onto one person and tunnel them and then start throwing out potential pairs with them. That tends to happen later.

This is a fair point that I missed, and also squares with my F2F experience with him. Like I mentioned earlier, its not unusual for town marble to throw out hypothetical pairs, but its usually in the context of a more curious day 1. He hasn't seemed very curious this day one. He's seemed content to park on marquis and not try to do much game solving, which is weird. I do tend to agree with his assessment of him not being the lynch today though for exactly the reasons he's stated. Like I don't know if the critiquing thats happening of his comments of being the kill tonight are coming from people who have ever played with him before, but I'll state right now unequivocally that if I were scum in this game I would kill llamarble night 1 100% of the time, and anyone who says otherwise either has never played with him before (and is somehow ignorant of his reputation) or is lying.

I think I want to lynch somewhere in the group of NSG, LQ, Tchill or Gamma Emerald (who I have some thoughts on that I will probably post later today.) and we can add marquis to that pile if he doesn't stop completely ignoring this game/wagon.

My town pile is postie eddie sauce.

Why not?

[Thestatusquo]

Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.
Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.

What do you think this is?

[Thestatusquo]

Will = Reckoner. If that's not clear?

[LicketyQuickety]

Reck thinks Marquis voting north in response to 13 looks town because its exactly what he would be doing at that spot. He solidifies a town read at 33 because "it's just so brazen and bold, I don't think he plays like this as scum here." He agrees with Llamarble on 65 that this is really weird noise to be making here. Pushes him closer to null town than strong town.
Not sure I agree here. As I said, I just don't see anything in any of marquis' contribution to this game and that in and of itself is pretty gross. He's also completely disappeared in response to the pressure which makes me not want to take the pressure off. Willing to sheep reck a little bit here, but growing more null-scum than null on marquis personally. I want to see how he responds to the pressure when he's here.

What do you think this is?

Misread, sorry.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay that's fair on Marquis. I feel like self-meta is a person-to-person thing. With Naomi-Tan, I believe their's since it's consistent. I feel like your "using it to write off an attack is invalid" point is pretty sensible though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually I'm not done on the self-meta thing. TSQ, don't you feel if someone knew the player they could disprove the faulty self-meta, thus making it a substantial risk?

[Thestatusquo]

Actually I'm not done on the self-meta thing. TSQ, don't you feel if someone knew the player they could disprove the faulty self-meta, thus making it a substantial risk?

I mean this is getting more down the path of theory than game relevant stuff, but I think it depends on the meta. Something along the lines of "I wouldn't do this here because of X" is not the same as "I never ever bus as scum."

The comment I had a problem with was of the former, not the latter.

[ActionDan]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 1.7

Marquis(3)

~ Dunnstral, Llamarble, wgeurts

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Thestatusquo, EddieFenix, ActionDan

Llamarble(2)

~ northsidegal, Cogito Ergo Sum

Cogito Ergo Sum(2)

~ Lycanfire, Sauce

Thestatusquo(1)

~ Gamma Emerald

Tchill13(1)

~ LicketyQuickety

Postie(1)

~ Tchill13

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Postie


Not Voting (0):

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

IDK, man. I think you are Town, but TvS conversations are really fucking hard to identify.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what". As for LQ's post, I guess that's a reasonable expectation, but there's also the fact that it was a common thread in the post, so I kinda didn't think anything was up with that one in particular.
As for the sauce read, I hadn't really seen much of him yet in that first post. By the time I posted 231 I had gotten to see what he was like more.
Why are you getting a townread from TSQ in the 1v1?

[wgeurts]

Sorry I've been fairly absent, I've got exams this week. Final one is on thursday, so I'll be active once they're all out of the way. Tomorrow I've got some time to catch-up, 'll make sure to provide some input then.

[LicketyQuickety]

Sorry I've been fairly absent, I've got exams this week. Final one is on thursday, so I'll be active once they're all out of the way. Tomorrow I've got some time to catch-up, 'll make sure to provide some input then.

Going to hold you to that.

[Thestatusquo]

LQ you've dropped off the conversation we were having. Is there anything else you want to follow up on about it or are satisfied for now?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what"

Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ you've dropped off the conversation we were having. Is there anything else you want to follow up on about it or are satisfied for now?

What is there to discuss?

I made a play and now Town has to react to it.

[Thestatusquo]

You didn't respond to my last response. I thought you might.

[LicketyQuickety]

You didn't respond to my last response. I thought you might.

What are you even talking about?

What did you say that I really need to comment on?

[Thestatusquo]

I am so confused. You said you had a problem with me and said you thought I was shifting the goal posts and then I wrote a response to that to try to explain where my head was at. I would have thought you to at the very least be interested in that response? Idk. I have a hard time figuring out what you're doing most of the time so fuckin' just ignore me I guess I'll be over in this corner babbling like an idiot.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what"

Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.

Why didn't you take issue with this before?

[LicketyQuickety]

I am so confused. You said you had a problem with me and said you thought I was shifting the goal posts and then I wrote a response to that to try to explain where my head was at. I would have thought you to at the very least be interested in that response? Idk. I have a hard time figuring out what you're doing most of the time so fuckin' just ignore me I guess I'll be over in this corner babbling like an idiot.

Well, I mean, where would the conversation stop? It has to stop at some point, right? Otherwise you could have a conversation that would never end. I chose to end the conversation at that point and see what other people have to say about it.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I find post 125 incongruous with the Dunnstral evaluation before and after. I also would have expected in post 232 that LQ's acknowledgement of Dunntral's naked vote to be taken as a cue to look back and see why LQ would have said that, instead of making something of it.

Similarly, but much more importantly, there is disparity present between posts 105 and 231 with regard to the read on Sauce. Although 231 doesn't endorse a town read of Sauce there, it is a statement that is a far cry from the feelings expressed in 105.

I don't find anything nearly as scummy in the TSQ/Gamma back and forth as the above, but I will say that I got a strong townread of TSQ out of it.

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what"

Full stop right here. There is pretty much NOTHING that says you can use to conclude that was a bus vote. It's a gut read and a stretch at that. There are reasons to Scum read you if you say stuff like this.

Why didn't you take issue with this before?

Because I wasn't focussed on you at the time, I was focussed on other things/people.

[EddieFenix]

Marble, just about how sold on the idea are you after all of this back and forth that LQ has been apart of that they're scum still?

[Llamarble]

i didn't believe that he really found something, hence my saying that his entrance was forced (kind of like how your questions feel).

I like the way NSG questions the sincerity of the one questioning her, in the form of an aside. She repeats it again later and it feels good there too.
Overall I'm developing a townread on her. It's harder to construct an internal representation of scum-her that writes her posts.
NSG, if you were scum, how do you think that post of yours would have been different? (ended after 'entrance was forced?' or another thought to make it a more complete post? Or simply the same?)

[Llamarble]

I'm taking this a lot slower now Eddie, starting from the beginning. I'll get back to LQ eventually.
It takes me a lot of effort to get good reads and I'm going to put that effort in instead of just hoping that everything will magically become clear to me because I am Llamarble.