Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[Bins]

The thing is I'm bugged by the fact he seems to want to get rid of me when I'm town. Now that he's seen that I'm flipping on him, he wants me out.

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Math
FINALLY

[T-Bone]

Please wait before you choo-choo, I'm waiting for something. Extremely important.

[Mathdino]

I'm semi-joking rn and was more just happy I would have a scum game to talk about, but I really did think you were town that game (even said so in the dead thread that I pitied you). I was just giving you a free day 1 pass because that game looked like Switch and this game look like that game and Switch so yeah

See I'm not sure if you're being lazy here or if you're just not doing the meta in good faith.

I admit that my scumgame probably looks like my towngame to people who just dole out a townread for me tryharding.

But Switch was absolutely NOTHING like either of those games, and I have no idea how you could think that I'd play the same with a N0 guilty as I would with no info whatsoever. If anything, the Switch game was more me in a scummy mindset because I had extra information and a goal to get you in particular lynched. If you have some meta-theory of Mathdino, go ahead, but that's a pretty major thing to overlook.

Elli hasn't responded yet but the mods don't want me literally copy pasting from my PT, so here's a summary.

Last Friday evening I said something along the lines of the following:
"I feel like I should reverse-pocket Bins. As in, experienced scum that I mutually townread usually leave me alive for D2 [current note: Wisdomscum pocketed me once and I got him lynched D2]. Since I'm becoming a plausible NK target, I'm thinking if I hard-defend Bins she'll leave me alive.
Problem is hard-defending her might look scummy as shit, idk. Bins is probably the ideal flip right now but I think I could get her to bus or lynch whoever I want since our reads align. And I'm definitely not getting Bins lynched D1 with like 10 players inactive."

In the PT I said similarly with an added "If I act like I'm pocketed then she probably won't NK me"

Yesterday morning I was like:
"oshit bins really is scum
wtf do i do to get bins lynched
plus regardless of what i do idk if bins-scum would NK me anyway
if i had assurance that she wouldn't kill me, i could just lynch LLD now and bins tomorrow"

And after KMD caught up in full, Bins ended up his 2nd or 3rd strongest scumread, to which I was like "nah it's okay I can get her to bus probably" and he was like "kk dude".

Reason I'm dumping all this now is because the "mutual townread" idea doesn't really apply anymore so there's no additional utility in keeping that read hidden.
VOTE: Bins
Willing to push this now. Lynch is also extremely high-info imo. Will go over my/KMD's points shortly.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Mathdino

The thing about Scum!Math (after having skimmed through that game and read the Scum PT) is that he votes most everyone (i.e. hops a lot from one target to another), while in his Town games he is much more focused and votes 2 people a game day at most.

I think Math made the most of the opportunity skirt inadvertently gave him by bringing up team composition and player preferences to try and force TRs on his buddies and put the spotlights elsewhere. Otherwise, that was a pretty dumb issue to dwell on, and I know for a fact Dino isn't even close to being dumb.

P.S. Sorry I broke my oath to stick to you forever, Bins. I wish you the best with another stalker.

heyoooo just read this

Voting all over the place is a symptom of not having strong reads. Obviously when I'm scum, other people are objectively less scummy (cuz they're town) so it's harder for me to get a lock.

Here, it's hard to get a lock because of the weird start, inactive players, and general quality of play.

See recent post on why I was flip flopping on Bins. I intended to join you on that from early on.

[Bins]

hmm, i’m not sure what i’m supposed to respond to because you’ve given 0 reasons

[Mathdino]

You could at least respond to the "why are you metaing me based off me as a N0-guilty-cop and how could you possibly think that's close to my towngame".

[Bins]

because there were other days to that game that i followed minus day 1?
because you still tried to scum hunt other people other than me?

idk how this is weird
ofc i’m not looking at how you pushed me in that game

[Almost50]

OK... this dude is BRILLIANT and I have every intention to nominate him for something or another.

Like, you made a CHESS move there (I think I better let Chesskid handle this one?) and I'm literally puzzled.

But here's a little issue: You now have gone the "Jay route" of "survival as an additional win con", of you know what I mean. Why does your survival take priority over lynching a scum read?

[Almost50]

because there were other days to that game that i followed minus day 1?
because you still tried to scum hunt other people other than me?

OH, SHOT!

VOTE: Bins

You tricky sneaky little witch!

What other game days, when he was NK'd on N1???

[Bins]

oh yeh that’s true

he posted a lot more so when i ISO’d i had assumed

that isn’t a reason to vote me, you realize that
you either scumread math or me

[Bins]

i also don’t understand
i said i was using switch to townread you in the game that ended and i was using that game

[Bins]

meh i’m not this careless just hop off

[Bins]

my point is you didn’t just tunnel me d1

you made a point of that
and when i was confirmed scum in the game d1 still continued on

[Mathdino]

I mean, either way, you're trying to meta me based on a scumgame and a game where I 100% knew you were scum and was basically trying to play the scumteam into outing.

Elli just gave me clearance to copy paste from Discord:
"I'm considering pocketing Bins.
If I hard-defend her and she's scum she won't kill me
idk how scummy that'll look
like honestly the ideal flip right now would be bins
but i think i can get her to lynch whoever i want
Help Scum Bus, right?"
- from last friday night

KMD's argument on Bins centres mostly around her horribad reactions to pressure. Response to initial wagon was a repeated equivalent of "why me??" Later on Transcend scumread her, Bins was like "no don't", Transcend clarified that it was a scumlean, and Bins said nothing.

Basically, Bins cares about people's reads on her seemingly only when it actually puts her in threat. She's at no point questioned me stonewalling her wagon because it helps her.

My argument on her is based on the idea that she's buddied me more than anyone else in the game; we share the EXACT SAME READS. Whether I'm a pawn in lynching her scumreads or whether she's sharing my reads to give the impression of a townbloc, don't really care. She's gone after people that went after me. Chainsaw defending instead of letting the me vs them arguments play out. She hasn't taken initiative in her pushes. She's let me do the work.

Then finally I'm like "Okay guys Titus isn't the scum here, we're lynching LLD" Bins shorts out and is like "idk wtf to do now". I didn't case LLD and it wasn't clear whether town would actually be willing to do that.

And now that I flip scum in a game that she was in no less, Bins has an out to start scumreading me. Pushing me (potentially with her buddies, I haven't worked this out yet) earlier would've looked horrible because of how much I was contributing. But now she has the "HEY GUYS MATH BEING A TRYHARD IS NAI" argument and I can be removed from the equation.

Edit: I haven't read the recent stream of posts

[Bins]

meh my read on you was super natural

but i may be inclined to believe this isn’t fake still
sad

[Bins]

you’re just so weird

if you’ve meta’d me you’d know i’m super defensive as town aaaaaaah
like i’m playing super not my scum meta right now idk how you’re overlooking this

also i’m sort of thrown off
i must look into something

[Mathdino]

But here's a little issue: You now have gone the "Jay route" of "survival as an additional win con", of you know what I mean. Why does your survival take priority over lynching a scum read?

I treat mafia a lot more politically than I let on sometimes.

Bins was not going to be lynched without a flip if it was just you and me pushing her all day. You have 0 cred in this town and I'd have 0 cred pushing Bins on weird-ass reasons.

Same thing goes with LLD actually (who I still lowkey think is scum with Bins despite Bins's self meta). Those 2 as a scumteam would be near impossible to go after while maintaining town cohesion.

LLD being gone and my whole "reverse pocket Bins" thing no longer working AND activity hopefully going back up, I'm perfectly comfortable lynching the two of them.

It has little to do with my survival; more with the feasibility of getting power-scum lynched today as opposed to watching Bins bus (cuz I know she likes bussing), making her think I'd do whatever she wanted, and torpedoing her tomorrow.

[Mathdino]

Now that we're having this conversation more openly (instead of just me and my teammates) I do wanna get more into the details of Bins's ISO. I'm not super familiar with Bins meta but I'm obviously not gonna listen to her self-meta all day (we all know how that goes).

I'm open to reconsidering this and lynching LLD slot instead; GL is yelling at me in chat for fucking up and he stilllll thinks Bins is town. But yeah this isn't a convo that can be put off anymore.

[Bins]

nah idk of all teams i sort of believe his teammates to be following

but my team isn’t following so i just like
lol
always doubt people are like
“WOW MY TEAM IS SO INVOLVED”

[Mathdino]

OK... this dude is BRILLIANT and I have every intention to nominate him for something or another.

final note

don't nom me if i'm wrong bro xD

i actually had other "chess moves" planned with this situation but there's no utility in outing those lol

but yeah this is all a distraction if we're wrong on bins so hold yo horses

[Dunkerdoodles]

bins's tone is wayyy better then dino's

also i agree, my team isn't super involved either so idk

[Bins]

you’re wrong on bins -.-

[Dunkerdoodles]

if i was scum i'd be using the rest of my team as a way to back my reads too

using "we" instead of "i" makes it sound a lot better like math is doing

[Mathdino]

bins's tone is wayyy better then dino's

You don't like my playstyle.

Earlier in this game I told you you don't know how to read me and this was literally while you were actively scumreading/pushing me in the other game.

Recall that you thought I was scum solely because I was hard-fucking-defending someone that you were 95% certain was scum.

I do think I have a scum-meta (not that I've figured out what it is yet); I'm not one of those PLAY EXACTLY THE SAME AS BOTH ALIGNMENTS people.

But I don't at all think you can tell the difference. Your reasons in both games for scumreading me is that me taking over the town looks like manipulating to you.

and lol tonereading