Mini Normal 1988 (Endgame)

[Leeoon]

based on sheer #'s alone he's more likely to be town, sure. I think its just as equally possible that he's scum that got caught and is using the "BUT IT WAS A GAMBIT!" excuse.

Unlikely, because that's a weak excuse.

[Sephiroth]

pressure lurker vote
VOTE: thegoldenparadox

unvote, vote: thegoldenparadox

[TwoInAMillion]

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

[Prism]

Impressions so far:

-I think Archwing's eagerness/reactivity to RVS was weird. The jokes/lack of serious votes kept flowing with the intent to keep the good times rolling rather than progress the game.
-Don't like Sephiroth's #32. It reads as establishing credibility via discussion of mechanics. Arguably that's game-progressing and just an attempt to get his opinion out there, and this is more of a tone issue. I'm inclined to think it's scummy because I get the same vibe but worse in the following post:

I also don't really like the 'i have a plan, but I can't tell you yet' shenanigans from roy. I usually find this type of behavior to be an attempt at virtue signaling (yes I just appropriated that term for mafia use, come at me). Like if he actually wanted genuine reactions or actually had something that needed to be kept in the dark to be effective, he would't be like "HEY GUYS I HAVE A SECRET THING BUT WE NEED TO WAIT".

I'm hardcalling bullshit here. Nearly every time I have seen this, it's been town. There are more experienced players who do stuff like this as scum. Coming from a newer player it is virtually always town. Newer scum are focused on seeming like they don't have anything to hide, newer town don't yet see the value of having everything out in the open (or at least, not tipping the scum off they have something until they do).

Nero, what do you think of me sheeping you since you think sheeping is dumb?

I don't like this. You explicitly highlight what it is that Nero should be taking an issue with your play and asks what he thinks of it. At a minimum, the correct play seems to be to wait and see what he said first, then highlight it and ask why it didn't faze him if it didn't. This is a straightforward question to answer and seems to be more worried about Nero's read on you rather than what Nero's thinking in general.

While I think the process described above is troubling, it's a common mistake as town too: What I think is wrong with it is the general preemptive attention to your own appearance it represents.

VOTE: Sephiroth

[BuJaber]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

You're over simplifying the Roy issue though. The point isn't about the gambit. Obviously no scum has a reason for a secret gambit. The question here is the intention behind saying it's a secret gambit.
Is it he got caught as scum o he is making an excuse?
Did he get nervous as town so he explained but doesn't want to reveal his plan to scum?
Or is the statement itself a scum gambit to appear town?

Lalendra is scum, vote lalendra. Or it's prism.
Like as much as I like the thought process behind Prism's post I think it's reaching. Reading seph's posts gives me a townie vibe and I find it odd he'd pick seph over anyone else that's questionable.

But a question for you Prism, if you are heavily leaning town for Roy, what do you think of Leon sheeping him?

[Nero Cain]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

not really liking the buddying here. And from earlier I didn't like your 59

@Prism

Roy is an alt.

[Sephiroth]

Impressions so far:

-I think Archwing's eagerness/reactivity to RVS was weird. The jokes/lack of serious votes kept flowing with the intent to keep the good times rolling rather than progress the game.
-Don't like Sephiroth's #32. It reads as establishing credibility via discussion of mechanics. Arguably that's game-progressing and just an attempt to get his opinion out there, and this is more of a tone issue. I'm inclined to think it's scummy because I get the same vibe but worse in the following post:

I also don't really like the 'i have a plan, but I can't tell you yet' shenanigans from roy. I usually find this type of behavior to be an attempt at virtue signaling (yes I just appropriated that term for mafia use, come at me). Like if he actually wanted genuine reactions or actually had something that needed to be kept in the dark to be effective, he would't be like "HEY GUYS I HAVE A SECRET THING BUT WE NEED TO WAIT".

I'm hardcalling bullshit here. Nearly every time I have seen this, it's been town. There are more experienced players who do stuff like this as scum. Coming from a newer player it is virtually always town. Newer scum are focused on seeming like they don't have anything to hide, newer town don't yet see the value of having everything out in the open (or at least, not tipping the scum off they have something until they do).

Nero, what do you think of me sheeping you since you think sheeping is dumb?

I don't like this. You explicitly highlight what it is that Nero should be taking an issue with your play and asks what he thinks of it. At a minimum, the correct play seems to be to wait and see what he said first, then highlight it and ask why it didn't faze him if it didn't. This is a straightforward question to answer and seems to be more worried about Nero's read on you rather than what Nero's thinking in general.

While I think the process described above is troubling, it's a common mistake as town too: What I think is wrong with it is the general preemptive attention to your own appearance it represents.

VOTE: Sephiroth

Well, agree to disagree I guess.

[Nero Cain]

based on sheer #'s alone he's more likely to be town, sure. I think its just as equally possible that he's scum that got caught and is using the "BUT IT WAS A GAMBIT!" excuse.

Unlikely, because that's a weak excuse.

I feel like this doesn't make much sense. What other defense does he have?

[BuJaber]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

not really liking the buddying here. And from earlier I didn't like your 59

@Prism

Roy is an alt.

They're different. You're a town read. Prism is currently in my scum pool. If you want compare it with my friendly banter with Roy. I like him also but he's in my scum pool too. A lot of this is banking on Lalendra being scum. My first few games on here have taught me to trust my first instincts a lot more.

[Roy Tagliaferro]

Yeah I'm an alt. It should say in my signature but I forget turning it on.

Bujaber what is there to over simplify. I went into the game wanting to do this little investigation before any accusations or townread came my way. And I told it because I was called eager which is because I wanted everyone to talk so I could get what I was hoping for.

Also Nero about the reads: I'm just really careful with giving out strong reads like 48h into the game.

Seph, Nero, moz Lalendra townlean. Prism has a solid post catching up but I don't agree with scum!seph

[Nero Cain]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

not really liking the buddying here. And from earlier I didn't like your 59

@Prism

Roy is an alt.

They're different. You're a town read. Prism is currently in my scum pool. If you want compare it with my friendly banter with Roy. I like him also but he's in my scum pool too. A lot of this is banking on Lalendra being scum. My first few games on here have taught me to trust my first instincts a lot more.

What does your read on me have to do with anything? And if Prism is in your scum pool why would you call his entrance good? I don't necessarily dislike Prisim since I've had a nagging backburner scum vibe from Seph and the votes on golden stink so bad that I'm strongly considering sitting my vote on TIAM until he's dead and likewise doesn't give me warm fuzzies about Seph.

[BuJaber]

I don't see the problem?

He can have a good entrance and be scum. I like means I literally like. I enjoyed reading it. It's better than "hurr durr I'm here now what's up?"

You said you didn't like that I liked your post and his and I'm saying they're not the same because I liked each post for different reasons.

[Prism]

You're over simplifying the Roy issue though. The point isn't about the gambit. Obviously no scum has a reason for a secret gambit. The question here is the intention behind saying it's a secret gambit.
Is it he got caught as scum o he is making an excuse?
Did he get nervous as town so he explained but doesn't want to reveal his plan to scum?
Or is the statement itself a scum gambit to appear town?

My point was that newer town often think they have a "Gotcha!" that they can't reveal yet...and whatever they do get winds up either being worthless or spoiled because the scum were warned ahead of time. I don't think it's an oversimplification, and I think I directly tackled the intent part. I'm not going to get bogged down in the finer details of the intent without knowing what the plan was. I think it's fair to generalize that the intention, using what is visible, is typically town.

Lalendra is scum, vote lalendra. Or it's prism.

In what sense are you using "or" here? It's clear I'm in your scum pool, but do you think there is a direct link such that Lalendra being town would make me scum beyond a simple odds increase?

Like as much as I like the thought process behind Prism's post I think it's reaching. Reading seph's posts gives me a townie vibe and I find it odd he'd pick seph over anyone else that's questionable.

It's definitely a reach. The reason it's a good entrance is that I'm willing to make that reach, despite a clear lack of solid grounding or proof, and see where it goes. As far as vibes go, I already described getting the opposite and why. You don't get anything in the game without someone making some guesses as to who is what and why they're doing things.

Do you disagree that his question directed at Nero was focused on his own appearance? If you do agree, why do you not find it scummy?

But a question for you Prism, if you are heavily leaning town for Roy, what do you think of Leon sheeping him?

Not very indicative. Town has a strong incentive to break out of RVS and get motion going. If I had no read, I would have likely done the same.

[Prism]

Often, my initial reads turn out to be wrong. That's okay, I've got plenty of time to fix them and plenty of information coming in to help me.

Sometimes, they're exactly right and were worth following.

Always, they're little more than a first-pass guess.

With what I have, I would bet on Sephiroth. I don't like his tone or the interaction with Roy, but more importantly, I hate that question to Nero.

[TwoInAMillion]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

not really liking the buddying here. And from earlier I didn't like your 59

@Prism

Roy is an alt.

They're different. You're a town read. Prism is currently in my scum pool. If you want compare it with my friendly banter with Roy. I like him also but he's in my scum pool too. A lot of this is banking on Lalendra being scum. My first few games on here have taught me to trust my first instincts a lot more.

What does your read on me have to do with anything? And if Prism is in your scum pool why would you call his entrance good? I don't necessarily dislike Prisim since I've had a nagging backburner scum vibe from Seph and the votes on golden stink so bad that I'm strongly considering sitting my vote on TIAM until he's dead and likewise doesn't give me warm fuzzies about Seph.

What's your problem with me? That came out of nowhere.

[TwoInAMillion]

Oh, you don't like TGP votes. What do you like so much about TGP?

[BuJaber]

I'm on the phone so excuse me for not using quotes.

About Seph: Sure I see it but I don't think that is AI, particularly from Seph. Though obviously if I'm wrong and neither Lalendra or you are scum that makes my read of the game state really lopsided.

As for my read on you: apart from the scum vibe I got from her first post and your first post, I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon. I am inducing that one of you/lalendra is scum and if so one of Roy/Leon is scum.

However that is not to say that if you are in fact town and Lalendra is somehow town that that automatically means Roy/Leon are inno obviously. I could be way off on the associatives.

[Nero Cain]

Oh, you don't like TGP votes. What do you like so much about TGP?

nothing. Its just a no resistance "safe" vote and I could see scum laying a vote down there. You also avoided my question about Roy.

[Prism]

As for my read on you: apart from the scum vibe I got from her first post and your first post, I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon. I am inducing that one of you/lalendra is scum and if so one of Roy/Leon is scum.

Me and Lalendra haven't associated at all. I don't know what associatives you're getting from us here, other than a complete absence: in which case the same could be said of say, me and TwoInAMillion.

I'm mainly just looking for it to be explicit whether these are completely independent scumreads or you think there's a link between them. The way you're phrasing it it seems like if Lalendra is scum, I'm probably town, and that seems nonsensical given what we have so far.

I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon

I mean, Roy, sure, but you directly asked me about Leon and I stated that I haven't found his only meaningful/action indicative, and that there's a clear incentive for him to make them as town. (I think the scum motive is pretty obvious). I'm not sure what reaction

other

than scumreading Leon wouldn't meet this qualification. It seems to run into the same problem if you had asked me about literally anyone else that I didn't scumread.

[Nero Cain]

vote:TIAM

[BuJaber]

As for my read on you: apart from the scum vibe I got from her first post and your first post, I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon. I am inducing that one of you/lalendra is scum and if so one of Roy/Leon is scum.

Me and Lalendra haven't associated at all. I don't know what associatives you're getting from us here, other than a complete absence: in which case the same could be said of say, me and TwoInAMillion.

I'm mainly just looking for it to be explicit whether these are completely independent scumreads or you think there's a link between them. The way you're phrasing it it seems like if Lalendra is scum, I'm probably town, and that seems nonsensical given what we have so far.

I am also getting low-key defense of Roy & Leon

I mean, Roy, sure, but you directly asked me about Leon and I stated that I haven't found his only meaningful/action indicative, and that there's a clear incentive for him to make them as town. (I think the scum motive is pretty obvious). I'm not sure what reaction

other

than scumreading Leon wouldn't meet this qualification. It seems to run into the same problem if you had asked me about literally anyone else that I didn't scumread.

Okay 1. Sure maybe from your pov it's nonsensical. But to lay it down more clearly: Right now I think there is a strong possibility of finding scum between Roy & Leon, but not both. I could vote for one then the other but a) the first lynch would be a coin flip. And b) if I'm wrong about both I'm basing ny entire scumhunting approach on this theory which means I'm probably missing other evidence and I could end up going after two townies. To mitigate this I want to look elsewhere first and see if it still makes sense for one of them to be scum.

Lalentra and your posts stood out. If one of you is scum I would be even more convinced that one of Roy/Leon is. But again I can't imagine a scumteam would have a pretty similar reaction to Roy/Leon so I'm ruling out that you both are scum.

However your reaction to my question about Leon plus the above quote shows me you are not going after easy targets (I think it's easy for scum to jump early on leon as a lynch here). So you're back to a nullread for me. At the very least it shows me you're not a noob scum.

[Lalendra]

Luca has 2 posts only towards Lalendra which I don't quite like, moz vote didn't seem to be RVS.

I never said her vote was RVS; she voted Moz for an RVS vote, which is at odds with her suspicion of people who acquired reads during RVS.

Catching up but addressing things in order.

It didn't look RVS to me, because at that point we had started content discussion which, as was already pointed out, he sidestepped to place his random vote, which was out of place at that time due to the fact that actual conversation was starting to ramp up.

[Lalendra]

Impressions so far:

-I think Archwing's eagerness/reactivity to RVS was weird. The jokes/lack of serious votes kept flowing with the intent to keep the good times rolling rather than progress the game.
-Don't like Sephiroth's #32. It reads as establishing credibility via discussion of mechanics. Arguably that's game-progressing and just an attempt to get his opinion out there, and this is more of a tone issue. I'm inclined to think it's scummy because I get the same vibe but worse in the following post:

I also don't really like the 'i have a plan, but I can't tell you yet' shenanigans from roy. I usually find this type of behavior to be an attempt at virtue signaling (yes I just appropriated that term for mafia use, come at me). Like if he actually wanted genuine reactions or actually had something that needed to be kept in the dark to be effective, he would't be like "HEY GUYS I HAVE A SECRET THING BUT WE NEED TO WAIT".

I'm hardcalling bullshit here. Nearly every time I have seen this, it's been town. There are more experienced players who do stuff like this as scum. Coming from a newer player it is virtually always town. Newer scum are focused on seeming like they don't have anything to hide, newer town don't yet see the value of having everything out in the open (or at least, not tipping the scum off they have something until they do).

Nero, what do you think of me sheeping you since you think sheeping is dumb?

I don't like this. You explicitly highlight what it is that Nero should be taking an issue with your play and asks what he thinks of it. At a minimum, the correct play seems to be to wait and see what he said first, then highlight it and ask why it didn't faze him if it didn't. This is a straightforward question to answer and seems to be more worried about Nero's read on you rather than what Nero's thinking in general.

While I think the process described above is troubling, it's a common mistake as town too: What I think is wrong with it is the general preemptive attention to your own appearance it represents.

VOTE: Sephiroth

Based on what I know of Seph's meta, his posting so far this game doesn't ping me at all.

[Lalendra]

Best entrance I've seen on MS, Prism. Thanks.

not really liking the buddying here. And from earlier I didn't like your 59

@Prism

Roy is an alt.

They're different. You're a town read. Prism is currently in my scum pool. If you want compare it with my friendly banter with Roy. I like him also but he's in my scum pool too. A lot of this is banking on Lalendra being scum. My first few games on here have taught me to trust my first instincts a lot more.

Start re-evaluating now because if I get mislynched you're going to have to do it anyway

[Lalendra]

In post 104, BuJaber wrote:
Lalendra is scum, vote lalendra. Or it's prism.
In what sense are you using "or" here? It's clear I'm in your scum pool, but do you think there is a direct link such that Lalendra being town would make me scum beyond a simple odds increase?

Yeah I'm not seeing the connection here either, given that his entire first post was about Seph.