Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

[humaneatingmonkey]

Still stand by the Seph lynch. No regrets.

[Mathdino]

how the fuck did you hammer scum and actually think we still lost

like i'm hoping you voted N_M cuz you legit agreed he was scum xD

[Katyusha]

guys i havent done my homework this entire time

pedit: I DID THINK HES SCUM IM JUST REALLY NERVOUS MAN dsflak;djfkaldsjf;kla;;;

[Katyusha]

usually in lylos i make sure that i can have someone reliably tell me if i made the right call just to avoid this

see my game with nsg

[Firebringer]

I’m killing u tonight katy

[humaneatingmonkey]

the lack of Sephiroth spamming monkey memes post-game makes me think we are still in-game.

[Katyusha]

is he online

[Mathdino]

lol i woke up from a nap at like midnight and saw you were online and i was like HOLY SHIT NEED TO GET HER VOTE BEFORE SHEEP/HOPKIRK GET OFF THE WAGON

[Mathdino]

idk guys in your position i'd like to think i'd be a lot more sure than you guys are

cuz evidence is obvious and shit

but then again i don't think i've ever decided a close lylo

[humaneatingmonkey]

if you're really town PM me your credit card info

[Firebringer]

Do homework Giga.
U nerd u

[Firebringer]

if you're really town PM me your credit card info

I’m scum so I stole ur credit card

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fire can still be scum here

[Katyusha]

i cant stop thinking about if i was wrong though fire

in all my serious games (i have to remove ginngie's game from my wiki lol) i have a perfect win rate so maybe i want to keep that up UwU

Fire can still be scum here

.......... over hop............................

[Firebringer]

Team is me, human, Katy

We trolled Dino good

[Katyusha]

please dont deviate it's just hop/sheep

Team is me, human, Katy

We trolled Dino good

that team would have powerfucked this town LMFOA

[humaneatingmonkey]

i have become enlightened

[Mathdino]

but like

we're still lynching the less likely scum first right?

cuz sheep in 3p is lolworthy

you guys are gonna fucking hate me when i no lynch on d5 instead of lynching sheep

[Katyusha]

chakras: blitzed
energies: equalized

my third eye spontaneously opens and sees all

< ( IT'S SHEEP/HOP ) >

^ third eye

pedit: omfg no never please do that - though how do you know you're going to be alive for that

[Mathdino]

because the fact that i just said it means sheep is of course going to keep me alive so he can troll longer

[Katyusha]

also vvv this is relevant please dont forget vvv

I was under the assumption that UCV rvs'd but then said we should try to get out of rvs as soon as possible which seems like a normal progression to me

though i guess that vote could have been serious - if it is UCV i'd actually like to hear what you think the scum motivation for that vote is

Why do we need solid scum motivation at this point? You sound like you're pushing against it trying to look townie.
The issue is inconsistency.
Plus we get out of RVS like he wanted.

What first made me consider scum!Hop this game was this post - specifically the second sentence.

Why is Hop shading me here? It was a weird line considering I was voting on the UCV wagon which meant that I was considering him as possible scum - obviously I'm not going to be pushing back against my own push, I would unvote if that were the case.

Since Hop seems like he's responding to my first sentence (UCV's progression seems normal) but is using context from the second sentence, the response feels like a non-sequitur and is ignoring the point being made. Obviously at this point I thought he could just be town misunderstanding me, but the consistency in how he continued to not see what I was talking about seems to me that there was some intention of pushing this point to an agenda, and backtracking yourself to be accountable to your mistakes would have hurt the push's potency. Obviously once it was clear that I wasn't getting lynched or scumread this game he backed off.

If he were just trying to sort me, I think he'd approach it in a more inquisitive manner. "You sound like you're pushing against it trying to look townie" is very different from "Why are you pushing against your own vote?". The latter, again, doesn't really make sense but it's at least clear in that case he's misunderstanding my intentions and can be cleared up easily.

---

I definitely agree with HEM that the Flubber read seemed out of place and white-knighty. I would think a town!Hopkirk would approach the read considering why Flubber was being pushed in the first place:

scumreads n_m for inaccurate meta and his UCV read is weird in light of the game’s context

Maybe Hop doesn't have the meta or context to disagree with the n_m read, which is fine, but if he felt he was town then Hop would have an explanation as to why Flubber wasn't considering sheep's meta or had a reason to disagree with sheep. "The wagon is bad" is also a perfectly fine reason to disagree with the Flubber scumreads, but as I pointed out the wagon composition at that time consisted of mostly townreads of Hop's so it's hard to give credibility to that reasoning.

The meta Hop gave is also kind of lazy. There's more to Flubber's entrance than voting onto a large wagon, and plenty of people do the same when they enter games. It's a very NAI thing to attribute to meta as well. I don't know how strong Hop's meta skills are but it still doesn't seem like a read I would use to defend against a Flubber wagon when there's more to the push to dismantle.

With a confident enough read to just write "Flubber is town.", town!Hop would probably try to explain his perspective better rather than just state it as he caught up.

---

I thought you'd be more interested in HEM town.

Something about this line also felt kind of manufactured to me. I don't really think it'd be surprising if he read HEM one way or the other and from Hop's posting it's clear he didn't intend to push on him as well, so townreading HEM there seems reasonable. Yet, why would Hop thinks this deserves special attention? I would think it's more likely that scum!Hop put HEM in his townreads so that he wouldn't look overly defensive and wanted to make that clear, and that I would assume that if town!Hop felt the interaction was TvT&T he wouldn't be surprised about me finding the read normal because HEM would seem clearly town to both of us.

I also question the read's genuineness considering Hop was happy to discard it once pressure came towards HEM's way. I think that, besides basically everything Bu has pushed, this is definitely one of the more opportunistic changes in reads.

I think this and the Flubber townread are both weak points in his reads that show that they're disingenuous. Hop's townread of Flubber should have further addressed the points being given better, and his HEM read seems to reflect more on the gamestate than what someone in Hopkirk's shoes would actually feel.

---

I think without going in depth about the argument that was had earlier, these are the most important points that lead me to feeling confident about scum!Hop.

Essentially, we can see that he's reading the thread from a different perspective that isn't inquisitive, provided a poor defense for Flubber when he was first being wagonned, and has reads that seem unnatural.

Kat, my current understanding of your hopkirk scumread is a whiteknight of me and his egregious misunderstandings. I think both points are kinda blah.

If explaining why they're scum motivated better doesn't help clear that up or make the points better, then could you give your reasoning for listing him as your 3rd scumread?

After a short break I'm going to break down why HEM is town.

[Mathdino]

meh d1 cases are unconvincing sorry

i'm sticking with my "why the fuck did sheep never give a shit about sorting hopkirk" case

[humaneatingmonkey]

There's no reaching. I've become enlightened.

my favorite game quote tbh

[Katyusha]

yeah but it's spot on lol

he never bothered sorting me, he just threw shade and went with it and had cheeky read changes

none of that has really changed past D1. this game has really felt like an extended D1 tbh

[humaneatingmonkey]

UGH LET THIS DAY END