Open 710: MKUltra - Foreign Spies Win!

[Viomi]

VOTE COUNT

Not_Mafia (3) - Mumble, Iconeum, Technical Difficulties

Technical Difficulties

(2) - GuyInFreezer, Beefster

GuyInFreezer

(1) - Not_Mafia

Sky_Paladin

(1) - RedFlavor

Sesq

(1) - Hawk

Hawk

(1) - Tatl and Tael

RedFlavor

(1) - Sky_Paladin

Mumble

(1) - skitter30

Not Voting:

Sesq, Kop

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Tick tock... (expired on 2018-02-21 13:25:00)

EDIT: There was an error in the VC, my apologies. It should be fixed now.

[Iconeum]

Fair point.

No, it's not.

[RedFlavor]

VOTE: techinic

50% mathdino seems like a scum excuse

[Hawk]

VOTE: techinic

50% mathdino seems like a scum excuse

This feels like reaching. VOTE: RedFlavor.

Beef if your vote was "not really" serious why did you take the time to give a reasoning for your RVS vote?

I don't understand the self conscious thing? are we not supposed to acknowledge we are in multiball. Both Hydras opened this way so if it's an accurate multiball Scumtell or something then I doubt that's a pair.

Iconeum are you serious about your NM vote and reasoning??

[Iconeum]

Ofcourse. If his claim is real let's have him prove it.
I lied about the cookies though, but don't tell him that.

[Not_Mafia]

Okay guys you got me, I can't handle the pressure anymore, I'm Ice Mafia, you can leash me if you spare my life

VOTE: Not Mafia

Out your scumpartner so we can leash the both of you. Also, your name suggests otherwise and I don't like liars.
I guarantee cookies for complying.

But if I out you we'll lose

[Not_Mafia]

Fuck that was meant for the Scum PT

OHHHHHHHHHHHNOOOOOOOOO

[GuyInFreezer]

VOTE: techinic

50% mathdino seems like a scum excuse

This feels like reaching. VOTE: RedFlavor.

This feels like reaching. VOTE: Hawk.

[Iconeum]

Ice Mafia Goon Role PM wrote:
Welcome, [player name]. You are a Foreign Spy, along with your partner, [player name].

Abilities:
•Factional Communication:

During the night phase you may talk with your partner here

[Private Topic link].
•Factional Kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partner may perform the factional kill.

Win Condition:
You win when the other mafia team is eliminated and you control 50% of the town or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Quoted from OP. Bolded part. You do not fool me. Give us your scumpartner if you want to live.

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh thank you for quoting that cos I didn't know that the scum PT was night only.

Now I can lazytownread Not_Mafia and not care about his posts anymore.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Hawk

[Hawk]

VOTE: techinic

50% mathdino seems like a scum excuse

This feels like reaching. VOTE: RedFlavor.

This feels like reaching. VOTE: Hawk.

How is that reaching?? RedFlavor voted saying that Mathdino saying 50% is a scum excuse. But I don't see how math commenting that he wants the Hydra to be 50% him and 50% impede as scummy? Like why would you make the slot 100% one head of a hydra if that was the case just play your main. Is that a meta read on half a head of a hydra?? I've played one game with Dino and in that game he was terribly productive as town. I would like Tael said rather he not he a backseat in that hydra but if he's got team mafia and it's a pain to long into the Hydra I don't see that statement as AI.

Reds lurk scummy but opportunistic as well.

Iconeum I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not here.

[Beefster]

Okay guys you got me, I can't handle the pressure anymore, I'm Ice Mafia, you can leash me if you spare my life

I hope this is a joke. In my last multiball, I made it to about page 10 before I gave up.

VOTE: Technical Difficulties

I'm on board with this wagon for now. Mathdino seems self-conscious about the multiball situation and Impede's half just looks self-conscious in general. Let's see where this takes us.

Being self-conscious = scummy?

Not necessarily in every case. It needs more context, but I'll say this is good enough for page 3.

[Beefster]

Beef if your vote was "not really" serious why did you take the time to give a reasoning for your RVS vote?

Because that's just what I do. It's intentionally a garbage reason.

[RedFlavor]

UNVOTE:

N_M being a good wagon should be pretty self-explanatory by now. N_M is ALWAYS a good wagon. If Impede wants to switch off to an outright scumread, that's cool too.

Iconeum and Red are pretty clearly newbtown I think. Red could 180 very quickly if he lurks it out because I remember him being obvtown like this in my/Sky's game.

skitter trying to read deeper into things reads genuine attempted scumhunting. Need to watch more interactions here.

RC is being RC. It's whatever. If he tries to use incorrect mechanics advice against us I'll lynch the shit out of him because I know he's capable of doing that, but I also see that as unlikely.

Beefster either town or purposefully juking me out because of that last scumgame against me.

If I personally were a kingmaker right this second, would decap Not_Mafia all the same. No strong scumreads yet.

Unless anyone wants me, next post will be Impede. Cheers.

- Math

This is Math's town playstyle meta I think. He finds the obvious towns and finds scum by PoE. This seems like it

[RedFlavor]

Also, NM's iso looks very bad, I dont see any town motivitaon in his posts. When he got L-3, he voted with GIF nakedly which looks weird. I would vote NM but it would be L-1 so Ill vote

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

[RedFlavor]

VOTE: techinic

50% mathdino seems like a scum excuse

This feels like reaching. VOTE: RedFlavor.

This feels like reaching. VOTE: Hawk.

Also yeah I was kinda reaching, I did not read everything properly when I voted that

But saying reachy to someone saying reachy to something reachy is really reachy

[GuyInFreezer]

You did it wrong.

You're supposed to post

"This feels like reaching. VOTE: SOMEONE".

[skitter30]

re: Math/TD

(spoilered just cuz I write a lot and I'm trying to make my posts easier for people to read)

@Hawk also because I talk about the hydra thing in the spoiler

Spoiler:

:/

This post kinda boils down to: obvnewbtown on Iconeum + policy on NM + fence-sitty on {me, red, rc, beef}. Like you gave yourself a PL and room to backtrack on like four people.

----

I don't understand the self conscious thing? are we not supposed to acknowledge we are in multiball. Both Hydras opened this way so if it's an accurate multiball Scumtell or something then I doubt that's a pair.

It's not the multiball thing. It's that I feel like math is intentionally planning on lying low, but informed us that if impede is in trouble he'll come and help him out -> it kinda feels like he almost expects this to happen and is forewarning people not to pay attention to what impede does as much because he'll come rescue the slot if necessary.

Yeah it took me a while to figure out how to articulate what's bothering me in with math / the hydra dynamic, and that's it.

I'm not playing Mathdino at all. I'm playing half of me/Impede, and I intend to put in 50% of Mathdino-level content. The extra steps to log into this account is also gonna be a natural barrier to me hyperposting and insta-responding as usual.

And while that hurts people's ability to read my slot

I fully expect that 50% of my usual content and >50% of Impede's usual content will be about equivalent to one of me. If this slot starts running behind on content (or town is doing dumb shit and Impede does nothing about it), I'll step in and start picking up the slack, hard.

Like he's announcing that he's going to lie low because he wants to give impede agency but he's also saying that if impede doesn't provide content or if the slot is hard to read, he'll pick up the slack, which is implicitly informing us that we don't need to worry about impede that much because math is always around as a backup.

So I'm just getting this overall vibe that he's like pre-emptively trying to defend against scumreads on the slot that might happen because of impede's posting by telling us that Math will pick up the slack if impede isn't contributing.

-----

tldr: I feel like Math is being pre-emptively defensive and LAMIST and I think 48 is a :/ post.

VOTE: Technical Difficulties

-----

So I basically agree with Red but I don't really feel like Hawk was reaching when he called out Red, because Hawk doesn't see the hydra thing as being AI.

[Sky_Paladin]

Technical

That said,
@Sky: I experienced Red as lurkscum too in another game. But if you voted Red for that reason, what did you hope to achieve?

'Something different'. Already there's been more activity from the slot. I don't think it's alignment indicative on it's own, but the fact that there are more posts there than before means that later in the game, we can look back and there is some content there.

The fact that his activity was to countervote me made me feel that he resented being poked. Or it could just be rvs. I don't know. I guess I'll see where it develops.

Like this post from red here saying about not wanting to put NM at L-1 and then voting for GiF because GiF 'voted with NM'. Seems overly cautious and wanting to justify the vote early on. Could be meaningful later down the track if we get a scum!NM flip.

Red could 180 very quickly if he lurks it out because I remember him being obvtown like this in my/Sky's game.

He was 'obvtown' to MathDino only iirc ^_~ And then he flipped scum.

Icon

Being self-conscious = scummy?

I kind of thing so, actually. I feel that scum are probably more inclined to be cautious and self-analytical than town, because they have to make sure there's no scum-intent seeping through their words. Whereas town don't have that and are probably more reckless. It's easier just to coast on by and not rock the boat, right? Whereas town are more likely to say the aggressive/reckless/stupid things that scum then want to jump on and push for the mislynch.

[Sky_Paladin]

@Not_Mafia

Can you please explain your vote on Hawk just now?

[Tatl and Tael]

Impede's always self-conscious, I'm hoping to help him with that. You're right on my self-consciousness, but it's with the hydra sitch, not multiball --

I'm mostly afraid that Impede scums it up and gets our slot lynched

because I haven't been here enough to produce readable content.

now that that's done,,,

(bolding mine)
The bolded is very interesting to me. Impede do you get lynched a lot?

UNVOTE:

N_M being a good wagon should be pretty self-explanatory by now. N_M is ALWAYS a good wagon. If Impede wants to switch off to an outright scumread, that's cool too.

Iconeum and Red are pretty clearly newbtown I think. Red could 180 very quickly if he lurks it out because I remember him being obvtown like this in my/Sky's game.

skitter trying to read deeper into things reads genuine attempted scumhunting. Need to watch more interactions here.

RC is being RC. It's whatever. If he tries to use incorrect mechanics advice against us I'll lynch the shit out of him because I know he's capable of doing that, but I also see that as unlikely.

Beefster either town or purposefully juking me out because of that last scumgame against me.

If I personally were a kingmaker right this second, would decap Not_Mafia all the same. No strong scumreads yet.

Unless anyone wants me, next post will be Impede. Cheers.

- Math

This is Math's town playstyle meta I think. He finds the obvious towns and finds scum by PoE. This seems like it

Eek, trying to townread someone for meta at this stage in the game.

VOTE: techinic

50% mathdino seems like a scum excuse

This feels like reaching. VOTE: RedFlavor.

This feels like reaching. VOTE: Hawk.

Also yeah I was kinda reaching, I did not read everything properly when I voted that

But saying reachy to someone saying reachy to something reachy is really reachy

Eek

this reaction, "I did not read everything properly" sounds too defensive for town. However props to voting someone who's voting the player who voted you, odd move for scum.


@skitter 68: spoilers make it more likely that people will just skip your content whether deliberately or accidentally - like they're pretty hard for me to spot on mobile.


(also ftr since I think Tael said something along these lines - I do not hate multiball I think it's plenty fun)


Hey a ladybug just landed on me!

[Sky_Paladin]

I will be V/LA for the next 72 or so hours.

[Hawk]

Ooooh

So I get where Skitters coming from. The early cases being weak (fence sitty, policy, ect. ect.) I think is fine as it's early. Though I can definitely see how you would see them as contrived. I still don't know how I feel about the Hydra comments being AI... Is this the first game for that Hydra?? Math made it sound like it was a new hydra.

I'm still cautious of Red here.

Sky doesn't GiF voting first then NM following up onto me make GiF look better if Red was scumleaning NM? I don't follow the logic of Red moving his vote then and even mentioning it's to move off of NM. how would Reds vote have put NM to l-1?? NM had to my count 3 votes on them with Red being 4... it takes 7 to lynch? I was so confused by this statement.

[Technical Difficulties]

idk where the fuck impede is so i'm here responding to shit regarding me
i want impede to give reads next so i don't dominate or drown out what's basically his game

It's not the multiball thing. It's that I feel like math is intentionally planning on lying low, but informed us that if impede is in trouble he'll come and help him out -> it kinda feels like he almost expects this to happen and is forewarning people not to pay attention to what impede does as much because he'll come rescue the slot if necessary.

This is... literally exactly my strategy, yeah. I get that you feel weird about it.

Impede requested to hydra with me after he and I finished a game together where I dom'd the town, correctly townread him, but town lolhammered/mislynched him anyway and I had to gamesolve the LyLo. To me personally, he's obvtown as town. To everyone else, people scumread him for some dumb shit reasons. When we played together in JK9++, half of my progression toward him was derailing the shit reads on him.

@Everyone scumreading my opening:

What do you think town-Math does in that situation? More specifically...
1. Do you think town-Math even tries to lie low? (if no, this implies I'm lying about the nature of this hydra)
2. Assuming town-Math DOES lie low, how does town-Math do it differently in the opening?

Like he's announcing that he's going to lie low because he wants to give impede agency but he's also saying that if impede doesn't provide content or if the slot is hard to read, he'll pick up the slack, which is implicitly informing us that we don't need to worry about impede that much because math is always around as a backup.

So I'm just getting this overall vibe that he's like pre-emptively trying to defend against scumreads on the slot that might happen because of impede's posting by telling us that Math will pick up the slack if impede isn't contributing.

You're correct that I'm preemptively defending against people who expect too much of me. sheepsaysmeep would literally read me by "If Math isn't obvtown by page 5, he's scum". I'm saying, don't expect me to dance around and obvtown for you guys, or defend myself in real-time, because while most of you know me more than Impede, this slot isn't the Mathdino Show.

What scum motivation do you see in implicitly discrediting my hydra partner, or in warning that I'm here to back him up? To clarify, if Impede doesn't provide content, I'm literally just gonna tell him to provide content. If he's just flakey/low-activity or isn't around when important things are happening, that's when I start taking over.