Open 710: MKUltra - Foreign Spies Win!

[GuyInFreezer]

not quite sure about Hawk tbh

[Sesq]

if anyone read my posts my motivations would be clear:

i was unsatisfied with the game state, willing to vote almost anyone, but didnt have any strong scumreads - waiting for a purpose.

then comes along a beef read that makes sense. i vote it

his defense is unconvincing

nobody on the wagon really pings me yet

but i still think sky is scum

[Beefster]

@Beefster

Your reaction to the vote from TD seems strange.

I was wrong about TD and heavily misread - They're probably town.

This needs qualification. A player voting you should not be an intuitive "Oh that player is town", it should be "You are wrong!!!" because you know you are town...right?

There really isn't any other way to react when he's absolutely on the money about how I have been acting in the game thus far. I concede that I legitimately look scummy. I took it as a call for me to actually put real effort into the game.

I want to see your justification for this town read, particularly as you have given out some justification for your other reads in that post.

Upon further inspection of my perception of their self consciousness, I noticed that it was well within reason how they were acting. Logic followed in a town way that didn't appear deceptive. I'm lynchbait for sure, but town is wrong all the time.

Your vote on Hawk surprises me. If you seriously thought there was a Hawk/Red scumteam, wouldn't you vote for RedFlavor? There's a couple of votes there already. And then uh your list of reads has Hawk in the middle so I'm ???

I could have voted for either one. I think I picked Hawk based on gut feel and I did think about voting RedFlavor. I'm not really sure why I placed my vote where I did tbh.

Your activity in the last few posts looks like a knee-jerk reaction to unexpected pressure. I'd like to see some deeper thoughts about why you ranked certain players where you did/why you're voting where you did/even if it's just you don't like the avatar.

Maybe so. At any rate, I need to put actual attention into the game. Sometimes I forget that decent cases exist this early on in D1.

[Beefster]

TD started the wagon with reasoning behind why. Sesq jumping on with essentially no reasoning doesn't really ping me. Both Red and Iconeum joined in positioning that doesn't really call any attention to them (middle of the wagon) and both had poor reasoning behind their vote. Whereas skitter questioned the reads list in a way that felt genuine,

it feels like Iconeum used it as a reason to hop on, essentially asking him to explain something that he already said he couldn't explain

. Paladin has some solid reasoning behind his vote, so I'm not really concerned there.

Of course, nothing really has changed from my early game opinion of Iconeum, so Iconuem -> Red. Maybe both.

QFT, bolded for emphasis.

My intuition may be wrong on this, but my sense is that asking for reasons against you specifically comes from scum more often than from town. When it's in defense of someone else maybe it's more likely to be town?

[Beefster]

To everyone else: I really don't think Beef is scum. Not mafia is fine ish, also happy with wagoning mumble because he's doing fuck all..I'll message keychain when she's on and we'll discuss the vote.

I think I might be reading in between the lines here, but it seems that you're more okay with a Mumble wagon than a Not_Mafia wagon even though Mumble contributed an actual case on Iconeum? It's fine if you disagree with that case, but your reasoning doesn't line up with Mumble's actual posts before this one.

Care to clarify/elaborate?

[Tatl and Tael]

Beefster wagon was too fast...not scum, I think.

@Tael

: You didn't really care about your question to me, did you?

I do care: but I don't have time to press you for it right now. I will certainly not be happy when I have time to play the game hard if you don't answer it.
I've mulled it over long enough and Tael feels reasonably confident in GIF scum based off of numerous meta factors but doesn't actually have the time to case it right now.

*shrug*

@Beef in terms of likeliness to flip scum? I think that Mumble is a better bet right now.
I am perfectly fine lynching Not_Mafia in terms of an I don't think he's going to contribute enough to be worth keeping around.

[Mumble]

Beefster wagon was too fast...not scum, I think.

@Tael

: You didn't really care about your question to me, did you?

I do care: but I don't have time to press you for it right now. I will certainly not be happy when I have time to play the game hard if you don't answer it.
I've mulled it over long enough and Tael feels reasonably confident in GIF scum based off of numerous meta factors but doesn't actually have the time to case it right now.

*shrug*

@Beef in terms of likeliness to flip scum? I think that Mumble is a better bet right now.
I am perfectly fine lynching Not_Mafia in terms of an I don't think he's going to contribute enough to be worth keeping around.

I already answered...

Are you not paying attention at all? That's the reason I said it feels like you don't actually care about the question you asked me.

[Mumble]

Assuming that was Tatl trying to answer for Tael.

[Tatl and Tael]

I did not see the response: sorry.

I'm kind of distant from this game, like I've said. (this was in fact Tael)

[Beefster]

T&T's mumble case is garbage. Mumble is obvtown.

[Tatl and Tael]

My mumble progression in this game is noticing that his opener felt like a copy of a previous game and not remembering any of his posts.
I'm sorry if it's underwhelming that I stuck with that but I have said I'm on pseudo V/LA.
If you want to wagon me for it nothing will change until I get more free time.

[Iconeum]

T&T's mumble case is garbage. Mumble is obvtown.

Explain this. Unless it's also something you can't really explain.
I'm having trouble accepting that Beefster still reads me as nr 1 scum, without being able to clarify, while having other scumreads he CAN explain.
On top of that, he managed to vote

6

different players. And not one of those votes was on his nr 1 scum read.

If Beefster is town here, and he reads player x as his top scum, I'd expect him to put pressure on that target and at least try to verify the read...

[Iconeum]

There's 5 hours between this post and the general read list in 177, yet both hawk and red move from suspected scum to null? 6 players become more scummy then his 'possibly a scumteam' read.

Is it unlikely for that to happen?

I'm not sure if unlikely is the word I wanna use here. It doesn't make any sense. Nothing changed in that timeframe. And 'upon rereading' making a full 180? So yes, unlikely. It feels more like backtracking under pressure.

[Beefster]

Sure, I guess I can whip out Mumble's ISO and defend him.

[Beefster]

First 3 posts are just playstyle posts for the lulz. Nothing AI here.

106 is a reasonable case against Iconeum. Nothing out of place here.

191 brings up a good point about how quickly the wagon on me gained momentum.

198 screams town to me. Good points on my wagon.

At worst, you can extrapolate a null read on Mumble. Any scum reads on him are a stretch. I'll admit it's a bit of a stretch to say obvtown based

solely

on this evidence, which is to say my town read is mostly gut.

---

Iconeum seems to like reasons more than most. Scum always needs reasons. Town can often live without.
VOTE: Iconeum

[Iconeum]

7

[Iconeum]

I do like questioning my scumreads

[Iconeum]

Which is your reason for voting me

[Beefster]

^ could be faking to look town

Just saying.

[RedFlavor]

UNVOTE:
I think Beefster's reason for putting me and hawk to null seems ok. And I don't think anything is wrong with changing reads and not going with only momential intuition after reading ISO's. Beefster's 188 and some other posts also gave me real towny vibes.

I don't understand Not_Mafia's reason to vote me, and he is probably copying the read of Beefster that said "We (me and hawk) both reached so we both must be scum".
After he got some votes on him, he is trying to act relaxed imo. But I don't see any town motivation at his "reaching" reason.

I don't agree with 212. It's not like Beefster townread us, he just saw that me and hawk "reaching" at the same point does not make us scumteam. Putting to null after ISO read makes sense. I don't think it is impossible for someone to change reads when there were no posts between the reads, but Iconeum showed it like that. I don't like this at all. Plus, in 211 he asked for Beefster's reasons for Beefster TR'ing Mumble, and said nothing about that after that about Mumble read even after Beefster posted his reasons. I think Iconeum is trying to strawman Beefster and mislynch him.

VOTE: Iconeum

[Iconeum]

Lol

[GuyInFreezer]

There's 5 hours between this post and the general read list in 177, yet both hawk and red move from suspected scum to null? 6 players become more scummy then his 'possibly a scumteam' read.

Is it unlikely for that to happen?

I'm not sure if unlikely is the word I wanna use here. It doesn't make any sense. Nothing changed in that timeframe. And 'upon rereading' making a full 180? So yes, unlikely. It feels more like backtracking under pressure.

I said unlikely because it can indeed happen. I've changed my reads (not in this game because I'm kinda :lazy:ing rn) within 30 minutes of posting my readlists while rereading before.

[GuyInFreezer]

HOWEVER, #219 is a very terrible (scummy terrible) and ppl should put some more votes on that dude.

[Technical Difficulties]

@Mod:

Replace us out. Impede got swamped with real life recently and basically haven't been following this game. Hydrae are weird.

Gonna do some ISOs and a reads list for the benefit of my replacement in the meantime.

UNVOTE:

[Technical Difficulties]

EBWOP: I basically haven't been following this game