Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Gamma Emerald]

Votecount 1.7

(4) InfernoBrafin: acryon, BuJaber, Beefster, MathDino
(1) acryon: Sing and Slay
(2) MathDino: TheGoldenParadox, InfernoBrafin
(1) Beefster: Lil Uzi Vert
(1) TheGoldenParadox: the worst
(1) the worst: Iconeum
(1) BuJaber: Momrangal

(2) Not voting: alban, Kthxbye

(expired on 2018-03-07 11:30:00)

BuJaber has limited access until Saturday February 24th

alban has not picked up his role PM and is being replaced.
Update: marshy replaces alban!

[Mathdino]

Beefster-scum doesn't fencesit on a read on me. I think he would either townread me to get me off his back or explicitly go after me in a gambit.

This is based on some unsubstantiated notion of what a player would do after being powerlynched by another player (I got Beefster-scum early D1 in another game).

Regardless, the level of nuance in Beefster's read on me (Hmmm IB is scummy but so is Math, but tbh IB is scummier which probably makes Math town) is unlike scum-him.

[Kthxbye]

alright y'all, ill catch up this weekend. Just buried my mother this week. Sorry for the delay

[marshy]

sup nerds

WOW kthxbye. im so sorry to hear that

i will b here later

[Mathdino]

so early argument I wasn't crazy about the idea of scum!Inferno. it's really easy to see him doing scummy things but I was trying to gauge his actual motivation for getting involved in such a stupid semantic fight with such a confident player so early in the game.

it's actually shit being called scummy / scumread by someone as assertive as Math this early in the game. treat my questions as an attempt to poke and prod Inferno for some semblance of towniness.

tbh though by the end of the argument he feels so... phoney. like, he's clearly realised he's wrong but it feels like he's still going to win some moral high ground or something.

I can whinge about nearly all of his posts if you want. Tbh I'm not sure if I don't like him cause he's scum trying to discredit obvtown reads or don't like him cause his debating skills suck and he's trying to wing it anyway.

I think had I not read TW's scumgame, I'd be locktowning this progression, but as it is I'll call it a townlean. I'll admit reading through his scumgame that there's something markedly different about how he goes about his reads/thought process.

He seems less confident. I think that's a townsign for him.

Edit: I feel dude, take the time you need.

[the worst]

Shit I'm sorry to hear that Kthxbye :/ I hope you and your family are doing okay.

[Mathdino]

While IB did vote for you after Paradox did, I don't see how they're taking advantage of a situation. Paradox's ISO is just politely asking all hydra accounts to make sure all players can know who is posting at all times and playfully responding to votes in RVS. No thoughts or actions taken regarding meaningful content. IB is being wagoned right now. They're also both new to the site so reputation shouldn't be a factor. So the likelihood of a serious wagon forming on you with them leading the charge should've been slim no?

@LUV

: I don't see the relevance of Paradox's ISO? I wasn't voting Paradox for anything that he'd actually posted.

I'm suggesting that scum is often afraid to start voting their scumreads, especially when they're scumreading someone active/confident, until someone else in the game validates that. Paradox voting me in a sense gave IB a pass to start a wagon on me as a counterwagon to themselves. I think they assumed that they would win the semantics debate and people would fall in line.

It doesn't matter how likely *I* thought a wagon on me was. Like if I carry myself with confidence it's because I just don't seem to get D1 lynched when I play the way I do.

What matters is how likely *IB* thought it was that I could get wagoned. And I think they were confident once Paradox voted that they could pull something off.

@All

: Given that LUV is engaging with players and asking fair questions, I feel like I should be townreading him, but I'm really not. A lot of it seems like it could be scum going through the motions. Comfortable with votes on LUV if you don't like the IB push.

Edit: oh hey TW what do you think of LUV

[Mathdino]

Dino, talk to me

How likely is that vote placed out of frustration vs it being placed because of actual opportunistic behavior?

The slot was frustrated with me beforehand, but they didn't vote me, even when I gave them an opening to.

Inferno only chose to vote me after Paradox's vote.

I see a correlation. Now it's possible that's town-opportunism (it happens), but I think it's just more likely to be scum.

VOTE: Bujaber

This is a serious vote, and I think this slot should actually get lynched. It feels like he's decided to just piggy back on the hottest topic atm. Possibly to look like he's being active?

It does feel a bit like that. However, the big paragraph to me pings as town-effort. Not that quantity = town, but I feel like we'd see the effort portrayed differently if he were just trying to get credit for activity.

This is interesting. I found the big paragraph to be NAI. I also found Bujaber commenting on the "hottest topic" to be NAI. It's one of those things where since it's the only thing going on in the thread, you kinda have to comment on it.

I'll admit that if IB is town, Bujaber's probably the scum on the wagon, so I can see Marangal's perspective.

A) When we or any player asks why someone thinks they are behaving scummy, it is a pointed question to out bad scumreads, not a "This is how I should behave" tactic. If that were the case, Inferno would have been much less self conscious a long time ago. He's asking the question in order to scumhunt.
B) The vote against Dino was made in jest as a RVS it seems, but Beef treats it as a real vote? Super sus.

Finger of Suspicion Beef.

A. Wow, it's a good thing

I at no point scumread you guys until the page where I actually voted you

.
B. The fuck? How is not realising that a vote was an RVS vote an alignment indicative thing? Beefster is super town bro.

I can't wait for you to pair me/Beef, I'm so ready

No read on the hydra, feels like they're playing in an

intentionally scummy

way, but whatever.

what about this post makes you think i'm shading you?

do you believe i'm shading your alignment, or your skill/quality as a player?

DUDE. THE SERIOUS FRICK.

The answer to your own question is

literally

in the post you quoted.
Either you're stupid (doubtful) not paying attention (likely) or this is insanely scummy. (Occam's Razor)

ughhhh
do i haaaaave to respond to this

do you understand that saying someone could be playing in a way that is intentionally scummy
DOES NOT MAKE THAT PLAYER SCUM

like, given that literally no one in this entire game actually is approaching this argument the way inferno is
i'd have expected brafin to come along and be like "yo inferno stop with the semantics debate, i see what mathdino's saying"
but the fact that he's apparently in lockstep with his partner is just unbelievable/unrealistic

scumread intensifies

[the worst]

He's pretty good, XO TOUR Llif3 is super catchy.

So far meeehhh. The swinging by asking questions earlier pinged me a little but his reaction to Beef felt legit. I kinda want more to sort him.

[the worst]

Sober me is still 99% sure Inferno either forgot what he was arguing about or realised he was wrong and kept going anyway. James reads fine to me but like, NAI+nice fine, not heaps towny fine :/

[Mathdino]

he was pretty clearly robbed from best new artist tbh

anyway who u gonna vote for boio

[the worst]

UGH so true. That result was dumb.

Good question tbh. I forgot about my vote, should've done this yesterday.
VOTE: Inferno

L-2

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Okay, just caught up and after skimming everything since my last post:

-I'm glad I backed off and allowed some other reads to develop. That was only hurting me.
Worst has me all over the place. Not sure where my read sits on him right now.
Icomeum is obvtown.
Beefster has got to be town by that though, becasue his exchange with Iconeum at his entry olny makes sense as SvS or TvT.
Can't decide whether Bu is scum trying to take advantage of a TvT with me or scumpartners with MathDino in a two pronged attack. Either way, I am reading Bu as scum.
MD could honestly go either way for me as of this post.

Also, I'd like to apologize in advance at how bad we actually are at forum mafia, if our play is as bad as some of you believe. Perhaps our newbie-ness will bring something to the game.

Going to read through again to see what else I can make of all of this.

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Praying for you, Kthxbye.

[the worst]

Icomeum is obvtown.
Beefster has got to be town by that though, becasue his exchange with Iconeum at his entry olny makes sense as SvS or TvT.

Talk me through these points?

[Momrangal]

Mmmmmmmm....

Idk how to respond to the fact that I'm syncing with what Sun is saying

With all my experiences with hydrae though, I'm not sure the lock-stepping with partner is NAI largely, and I would have to see more coming out of it butttt

Now that I am thinking on it, scum hydrae are Iess likely to have hydra-diss

Also regarding that slot, Dino I can see why you see the opportunism there but I'm not sure I agree with your theory of scum being scared of making the first vote on their own scum-read but from the outside it looks like a pride Battle of sorts and I'm pretty sure IB knows he's fallacious and I don't think its unlikely both heads wanting to back each other up seems more like town-hydra move

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Inferno: RUDE! I'm just approaching the game objectively! Skipping RVS like this and calling half of a hydra scummy is really dumb.
VOTE: BuJaber

Arguably dumb but how is it scummy?

This was closer to an OMGUS RVS vote, LUV.

@Worst:
Wel, Iconeum is obvtown imo because his reactions and conversing does not feel fabricated at all. His responses don't ever seem forced, and he's doing a good job with his reading, too good for it too be scum.
But then, if you look at Iconeum's enterance and how he interacts with Beefster, it doesn't work as a TvS interaction. The back and forth is too strong for a TvS to make sense. So it'd either be TvT or SvS. And if Iconeum is obvtown, Beefster also has to be town.

Do you have any other thoughts on my reads?

[the worst]

Give me a read that will rock my world

[Beefster]

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

@Beefster: Which part of this is self-conscious?

After some more in-depth thought, while it's probably normal for hydras to be self-conscious about playstyle, it's another thing entirely to be self-conscious about others' reads on you.

I might be falling prey to confirmation bias here...

I think Mathdino is town because my gut is telling me that the worst is town and that Math and tw are the same alignment.

Momrangal confuses me.

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Interesting read there Beefster. What about both Worst and MD comes off as town?

I do agree with you on Momrangal.

[the worst]

Yeah tbh I'm nervous Inferno feels alignment informed. It's like he's trying to assign weak reasoning to why the obvious townreads are town and doesn't wanna focus on anyone else.

The argument structure is probably NAI but on reflection I'm feeling stronger about this. I can easily see the two heads' play (Inferno playing confident, James rolling with him while trying to appear towny) as coming from scum.

I'm not liking Bu either but coming out with that "Bu and Math scumteam" theory just rubs me the wrong way.

Mostly gut here BUT I think one of Inferno & Bu are scum.

[the worst]

Give me a read that will rock my world

Infernoooooooooooo

[Beefster]

Inferno:

Interesting read there Beefster. What about both Worst and MD comes off as town?

I do agree with you on Momrangal.

the worst is being totally goofy, but in a genuine way. I would expect him to be somewhat more serious or more self conscious as scum. He doesn't seem to give two shits about what other players think of him.

I'm not sure I can put my finger on exactly what makes me think tw and Math are the same alignment. It probably is meaningless since they're friends outside the game I think.

Maybe it's just that I'm starting to see Math!Town in other ways and that's just how my gut interpreted it.

[Iconeum]

Spoiler: Beefster's 180

Yeah. Mathdino's pinging me too. Let's see how this progresses.

Beef!!

How are you reading Math so far?

Leaning scum. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish.

I otherwise seem to like your posts, but this ends up feeling like convenient hedging for you:
1. "Leaning scum [on Mathdino]. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish"
2. "[Math vs. Inferno is] probably not SvS, so I'm likely wrong on at least one of them. I need to wait and see how things develop.
3. "If anything IB is the more likely scum."

So are you more or less saying here you think Mathdino is likely town?

If you want to take it that way, sure.

It's too early to tell.

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

@Beefster: Which part of this is self-conscious?

After some more in-depth thought, while it's probably normal for hydras to be self-conscious about playstyle, it's another thing entirely to be self-conscious about others' reads on you.

I might be falling prey to confirmation bias here...

I think Mathdino is town because my gut is telling me that the worst is town and that Math and tw are the same alignment.

Momrangal confuses me.

Alright Beefster, what happened that you did a 180 on your MD read?

[the worst]

Who do you think is most likely to be scum and why Ico?