Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Gamma Emerald]

Votecount 1.13

(3) InfernoBrafin: acryon, BuJaber, the worst
(1) acryon: Carrot and Stick
(2) Beefster: Almost50, Iconeum
(2) BuJaber: Momrangal, InfernoBrafin
(1) Momrangal: Beefster
(2) Not_Mafia: Mathdino, TheGoldenParadox

(2) Not voting: Not_Mafia, Kthxbye

(expired on 2018-03-07 11:30:00)
TheGoldenParadox is V/LA until Tuesday February 27th

[Almost50]

Yes you should read the thread

Why? What is/was so important that needs me to read first hand rather than you tell me about it?

[InfernoBrafin]

Infenrno:

Wow, this post is bad. Let me break it down:

Yes there is a lot to react to and calling out lurkers now now would be an ok think to maybe do but the game had just gotten out of RVS and there was like one maybe two things to react to.

Why is it insane to believe that there are 5 people who hadn't posted in a >48 hr time frame

So me calling out people for not posting is wrong, but it's perfectly fine for people to say I'm not doing anything useful?

First off, lurking and "not doing anything useful" are not the same thing. Lurking is generally NAI, while "not doing anything useful" implies that you are saying stuff that doesn't really give anything to the game, like IIOA. This is a total misrep.

I see

Pot calling the kettle black.

IB of course completely ignored half of my case on them even when they asked me about it and I explained it again. I don't know what I want more. For you to be town and realize that you don't have a clue how to play with fellow townies or for you to be scum so at least it makes sense what you're doing.

This is A) AoP, and B) you're voting us because of my "tone," Which honestly at this point is quite a bit BS. You're not even really considering Brafin in this. You're not even using my 1v1 with Math as part of your read, you're just telling me to shut up. Once I start to call you out on your "read" is when you start to scumread me harder. It's honestly like you're trying to find a weak reason to scumread me and then back it up with more as time goes on. Really scummy behavior.

Can we lynch either IB or Mom? scum have nobody to go after so they're focusing on me. They know they can't go after someone else. I had an early wagon on me and nobody is townreading me strongly so I'm a good scum target.

We are focusing on you because your play is scummy. You've parroted the same thing over and over again about how my "tone" makes this hydra scum, but you're not even considering Brafin. It's quite honestly a BS read.

Frigging hilarious this. I get called out for not scumhunting in the only game where I am clearly the one doing most of the work. You guys realize post count is not an indication of how much a player is contributing right?

You're not doing ANY work. You're just parroting yourself over and over again about my tone. Second post count is not indicative, but post CONTENT is. Which you have very little of regarding town.

It kinda makes sense to soft-defend lurkers if you are scumpartners with one or more of them.
SO I'm pretty confident there are 2 scum in {IB, Mom, NM, LUV, Sing, acryon, (and paradox though less likely since I'm TR'ing him at the moment)}

This is just wild accusations here. You're literally reading all the lurkes as scum. That's incredibly ridiculous. Why do that? because you don't want to deal with town that's going to put up a fight?

If there is a 3rd scum that would be pretty difficult to figure out but if that were the case I'd have to reconsider all my townreads. Though a 3rd scum probably isn't likely because it seems risky to defend a lurking scum partner if you have another one also in the game. Unless of course the game is as easy as it seems and both IB and mom are scum, that leaves one of the lurkers as their final partner. At least that theory would explain why they haven't gone after each other or disagreed. IB agree that mom is confusing, and that asking questions could be scummy but they low-key defend mom early on.

This is just wild accusation here too. I'm seeing a lot of AfR coming around that I don't like.

Can one of you just bus the other one so it's easier?

What kind of scum crap is this? This is just asking for trouble.

All in all, an incredibly incriminating post. VOTE: BuJaber.
Let's lynch this, Mom.

Going to read and respond to everything else that has happened to catch up.

[BuJaber]

Yes you should read the thread

Why? What is/was so important that needs me to read first hand rather than you tell me about it?

Because there is heated conflict and I'm involved and you need to form your own opinion.

But basically I think it's obvious it isn't SvS so it's either TvS or TvT and I for one would appreciate the outsider perspective if I am to learn anything from this game after all alignments are revealed.

[BuJaber]

Basically I think we're in a situation where it's either me or IB or Mom today so it comes down to how people read us.

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

There are responses to posts from Bu, Math, Beef, and Almost in here.

Spoiler: Catch up

Also, I want to point out that #193 is actually bannable.

That's not true at all
Obviously if he's scum he knows I'm town
Go look up how trust tells really work
People say that exact line all the time

Inferno:

"Do not bring outside influences into the game -

this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc.

Using knowledge from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another."

From the site rules.

no one actually leaves the site over this
some of the most experienced players here say this shit all the time
what's the purpose of pointing this out dude

This was a passing note more than anything. The fact that he did it has been stored away incase something else comes up in my read on him.

Regarding Not_Mafia: I say wait until he makes a few posts. I think I'm starting to get a feel for his low-content style. Though tbf, I haven't seen him flip. He just doesn't give you much to work with.

I've actually seen him flip scum as his shit-post style. I honestly think it's NAI.

Regarding IB: Like you asked the question of why I found you scummy, and then Dino is the one that responds not you. You obviously will argue that your neutral tone at start isn't AI and that would be fine, we'll argue back and forth. It's not even hard evidence so I am actually open to changing my mind contrary to what you seem to think. However you didn't do that. You just up and ignored it and went back to frantic and nervous. Which btw you can totally be both. A person can be nervous about getting caught so they frantically try to come up with a way to explain themselves out of a jam.

Actually, I can understand how a robotic tone could be looked at as scum. It would make sense for a robotic tone to sound scummy if it played out over a long period. The thing is you made that statement after only a couple of posts, completely ignored Brafin in doing so, and have just been using it as an excuse to scumread half of a hydra all game.

What is AoE?

What is there to answer about your question? I think it's insane that 5 townies would miss 48hours of the game after confirming. You clearly don't think it's insane. It's a matter of opinion.

Your other points are just your pov vs my pov. We are both attacking each other so we both hate each other in the game. It's cool. I didn't do any misrepresentation. If you think I did, then please can you explain what the difference is? Because I don't see it.

This is very much blow-offy. It smells suspiciously of the Relativist Fallacy. Don't like it.

IB saying I'm reactive is clearly bullshit as I have started a wagon all by myself and declared my reads without prompting.

A) Your reads are awful and B) when did I say you were reactive. Or was that James? Either way, what you are doing is being incredibly opportunistic by "stating a wagon all by myself" and giving weak reads without prompting.

Okay I just washed my face. I'll try to keep emotion out of this one.

Momrangel: Your latest posts, especially 281 show me that you are interpreting literally everything I'm doing and saying as scummy.

No player does everything scummy. It is pretty much impossible. So I can only assume that you are finding everything scummy because this is a case of confirmation bias.

There has been lots of discussion surrounding this point in the thread, and I think there are plenty that would disagree with you.

Therefore I really can't see what I can gain by continuing to appeal to you.

Answer me this question though, because I think it's a good one, Why is being reactive even AI? Why wouldn't a townie also play reactively?

For the sake of my own amusement, I'm going to call the scumteam as Momrangal/IB/(Paradox or Iconeum)

I'm probably wrong on at least one.

Definitely at least one. I'm thinking it could be all three. But I enjoy the cattleprodding.

I'm here!

Anything worth reading/knowing yet??

Hey, Almost! Can I see some reads on you regarding:
BuJaber
Iconeum+TheWorst
MathDino vs. InfernoBrafin

And any other things you've noticed?

[InfernoBrafin]

Yes you should read the thread

Why? What is/was so important that needs me to read first hand rather than you tell me about it?

Because there is heated conflict and I'm involved and you need to form your own opinion.

But basically I think it's obvious it isn't SvS so it's either TvS or TvT and I for one would appreciate the outsider perspective if I am to learn anything from this game after all alignments are revealed.

Inferno:

I'm getting a definite "help me scumpartner, I'm having a really hard time getting these two lynched and I want a backup opinion to help solidify" vibe from this.
There's not enough from Almost yet to be confident in a read yet though, so I'm going to file this away with post #193 for later use.

[InfernoBrafin]

Spoiler: Beefster's 180

Yeah. Mathdino's pinging me too. Let's see how this progresses.

Beef!!

How are you reading Math so far?

Leaning scum. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish.

I otherwise seem to like your posts, but this ends up feeling like convenient hedging for you:
1. "Leaning scum [on Mathdino]. His posts feel kinda IIOA-ish"
2. "[Math vs. Inferno is] probably not SvS, so I'm likely wrong on at least one of them. I need to wait and see how things develop.
3. "If anything IB is the more likely scum."

So are you more or less saying here you think Mathdino is likely town?

If you want to take it that way, sure.

It's too early to tell.

Inferno:

I would define them as "not very good at playing mafia."

@Beefster: Which part of this is self-conscious?

After some more in-depth thought, while it's probably normal for hydras to be self-conscious about playstyle, it's another thing entirely to be self-conscious about others' reads on you.

I might be falling prey to confirmation bias here...

I think Mathdino is town because my gut is telling me that the worst is town and that Math and tw are the same alignment.

Momrangal confuses me.

Alright Beefster, what happened that you did a 180 on your MD read?

I changed my mind.

Inferno:

You "changed your mind?"
No, you need to elaborate on this. WHY did you change your mind?

Inferno:

You still haven't responded to this either, Beef.

[Mathdino]

So I'm at the point where I'd be willing to policy lynch half the playerlist

So I should probably tone that down

That said

Not_Mafia tho

[Mathdino]

it's at the very least a policy wagon

i'm not sure if i'd be willing to straight up lynch him right away

i'd say it's 40% policy 40% reaction/pressure 20% memes

lmao
VOTE: Not_Mafia
Dino this is the reason I'm townreading you so hard:
It's a little something called

irony

.
Don't take it seriously.
Also,

@mod, will be V/LA until Tuesday

noted.

How have you done nothing all game

Are you actually town reading me or not

What even

[Inferno390]

So I'm at the point where I'd be willing to policy lynch half the playerlist

So I should probably tone that down

That said

Not_Mafia tho

N_M is... well, he's something. I just don't know what it is.
I can't help but look at you and gut townread you, Math. I'm starting to feel like our 1v1 was just two intense players being intense.

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

God dammit!

Also, how do I add pictures to my posts?

[Momrangal]

MASTIIIINNNNN

[Almost50]

I've just had bad experiences playing with hydras because they became lynchbait because the heads had conflicting opinions.

Scum points awarded. You admit that in your experience "hydrae/hydras are lynchbait" so you

vote

them???

Subsequent votes on the hydra by BuJaber and the worst are a bit worrying, but I'll accept these were RVS votes with a grain of salt (especially the worst who switched his vote quickly. Only if the hydra actually flips scum will I have another "different" look at this switch)

the worst is town

Dammit, Dino! Can we like, have a conflict in our views sometime? (And I mean while we're both still alive in the game)

Real talk I am already not a fan of acronym

Hmmm.. Dino agrees the worst looks townie and mom agrees acronym is sus. Now I'm starting to worry MY reads will be bad bc I'm not used to being agreed with much.

acryon is probtown until someone finds me evidence that they open scumgames like this.

Went back a step to find something to fight you about.

But seriously, you don't find it awkward for acro to vote a slot he admits to be a lynchbait in his own experience? I'd say that is either bad distancing or bad posturing (i.e. both are scum or acro is scum who tried to look genuine but failed).

This is one of those things that people so commonly see as scummy (even though it's not actually scummy) that's wrapped around to the point where scum just don't do stuff like this.

The "too scummy to be scum" fallacy". Go it

Like, obviously scum-acryon should know that he's not gonna get any votes on these guys just for being a hydra, and should also know that an action like this isn't gonna get him any towncred because it's not actually scumhunting.

The question is: wouldn't scum!acronym also know it's likely to be seen that way and thus doing it on purpose to be TR'd by someone like you? I mean, acro is no newbie, so things are not as simple and very much WIFOMy at this stage.

In fact, doing this actually hurts scum-acryon because it ends RVS early over some stupid shit that he could easily get lynched for.

How the hell could he "easily get lynched" for something you're calling him TOWN for???

Math: Either you're scum with this guy or this is you from the that game and acro is replacing Jay. Now which is it?

For starters, your acryon push is bad and OMGUSy.

Hmmm... I guess I should go straight into your scum pile then??

OK.. I'm seeing lots of action between Dino and Inferno but I haven't yet seen anything worthy about BuJaber. (Which is what I'm reading the thread for)!!

Also, and if I may say this.. both Dino and Inferno are being ridiculous. It's NAI for me 9as I can't decide if either would have the guts to do what they're doing if they're actually scum. I know Dino IS ballsy, but this is really really stupid and if it leads to a

mislynch

it would immediately backfire on him.

Spoiler: For those who need reading guidance:

P.S. Yes, I said MISLYNCH referring to a slot I NULL READ. What I'm saying is if the hydra flips red then Dino would look GOOD, but Town!him wouldn't know the slot IS scum before it flips. On the other hand, Scum!Dino would know Inferno is town and thus won't be doing this because he will take the heat for it when the flip is revealed. That leaves me with a TvT or SvS and I don't know which is more likely. It could be that Dino genuinely suspects Inferno, or it could be that this is somehow a pre-planned scum theatre.

EoPage 3

[Momrangal]

How about we just bus each other like was suggested and get town cred off of that, IB?

Seriously though, I missed where Dino took "scummy" veered towards his direction as meaning scum-motivated

[InfernoBrafin]

Brafin:

Agreed on Not_Maf. At the moment, he feels town.
Math has gone completely silent toward us, which I don't feel like is a good thing. I feel like town would at least have something to say instead of just flat-out ignoring other player's scumreads. But he's still comong off as townie in other areas. Why does he have to be so hard to read?
Bu seems to be trying really hard to "shade the corn" and put mom and us on a scumteam together.
TGP bothers me. It feels like they aren't really contributing, just lurking and barely keeping up.
Is it just me, or is it odd that Beef/BU have the EXACT same readlist? And Beef seems to be soft-defending Bu? And Bu is super flippant about his readlist and lynches?

Right now, I'm leaning toward a Bu/Beef/??? scumteam. Whoever #3 is, they are hiding it really well. It's not mathdino, the dynamic just isn't right for him to be scum with them. Leaning toward TGP or one of those who haven't posted much yet (Not because they're lurking, but because everyone else is striking me as super townie [except math, but that's a whole 'nother story] atm tbh. So if everyone else is town, it follows that the scum is somewhere in the lurkers.)

[InfernoBrafin]

EWBOP Brafin: *coming off as. Not comong off as.

[Momrangal]

Answer me this question though, because I think it's a good one, Why is being reactive even AI? Why wouldn't a townie also play reactively?

I'll indulge on this, actually.

Being reactive to what's going on around you makes it super easy to look like you are doing something without actually doing something.

When people are playing reactively, the two most likely scenarios are they are being targeted by a person and they want to fight back or get them off their back and two

They aren't scum or town hunting and just looking for things to latch on to so that it looks like you're doing something productive in a game.

It shouldn't be to hard to figure out why its more likely a scum driven move based off these two scenarios.


ALSO

I am as calm and cool as a cucumber stuck in a freezer

[Momrangal]

IB I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU

[Momrangal]

Paradox to me reads as pulling strings and trolling for the lulz and recactions

[InfernoBrafin]

Brafin:

Inferno:

Mathdino, the fact that you are saying that Brafin and I are scummy without actually explaining why is scummy in itself. I sound like you're trying to scumread us without actually providing a read.
Plus, we didn't really even push acroyn. We're pushing BuJaber.

@BuJaber, mind if we call you BJ for simplification?
@Worst, I'm glad that someone appreciates my failures at life.

Whether or not you scumread me isn't really my concern. Your playstyle is naturally scummy, and if you're scum, explaining why is literally anti town for me to do.

Why would I provide reads on everyone else but you in this situation?

Regardless, I generally don't have strong reads on naturally scummy players. The scumminess masks the alignment indicative stuff.

Inferno:

Okay, but this leads me right back to the point of you won't explain what you find about our play that is scummy, leaving me to only guess about what you could possibly be calling out. Right now it just looks like you are using the fact that we're a hydra to call us scummy.

I think that you're throwing accusations at Paradox of scummy play really early, which is odd. I also think that a flash wagon this early can be interpreted as "hunting for PRs," which makes me trust you less. Not knowing your scum or town meta, I don't know what It means for you yet. But I will.

but again

it was of no benefit for me to start telling everyone exactly how you're scummy

because
1. I don't want people to start using my reasons as bad reasons to scumread you.
2. I don't want to give you a road map to getting a townread from me. I want you to play how you naturally play and we'll see what happens.

what you're not understanding is the fact that i wasn't paragraphposting about what made you scummy was actively an effort to not start riling people up about you

and yeah, paradox has been mislynched in 2 different games, once mislynched while i was hard-defending him the entire game
so i believe i have the right to call paradox scummy
it's like you're actively ignoring the idea that a player can be scummy in every game they're in
jaydragonking and momo are obvious examples

In these posts, Math either A) uses our use of the word scummy to assume we scumread him, or B) assumes that when he calls us scummy, people will scumread us even though he admits that most know that's not how he uses the word. It's not consistent, and strikes me as odd.

[InfernoBrafin]

Both: What up, mom?

[Momrangal]

Hmm.

Ok.

When A50 comes around I want to have a three way convo about Buju. I don't think buju, if scum wouldn't blatantly call to a scum buddy like that in thread.

I am interested in what A50 would have to say though

Pedit: you already answered it never mind

[Momrangal]

And on a note of irrelevance I'm really loving my new name

[Carrot and Stick]

Yo.

Fair warning: Assemblerotws and I don't have a line of communication yet so I'll need to set that up sooner rather than later, and furthermore, he brought me in frankly at a time I consider too early (one of the reasons he wanted to hydra with me is because he thinks I can be awesome sometimes, but the times I can be awesome are often after D1), so he'll probably end up disappointed in me, but oh well, I did agree.