Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Carrot and Stick]

I've just had bad experiences playing with hydras because they became lynchbait because the heads had conflicting opinions.

Scum points awarded. You admit that in your experience "hydrae/hydras are lynchbait" so you

vote

them???
Subsequent votes on the hydra by BuJaber and the worst are a bit worrying, but I'll accept these were RVS votes with a grain of salt (especially the worst who switched his vote quickly. Only if the hydra actually flips scum will I have another "different" look at this switch)

Annnnnnd I need look no further to know Almost50 is town.

I mean I already was leaning that way on the slot but this alone is enough to know.

[Almost50]

Icon is town btw.

OK, now I

know

we're going to fight each other for most of the game.

What exactly in that one post makes you think this is town!Ivon as opposed to opportunistic scum!Icon? For me it could be either so it's NAI overall.

Alright, so 102 is independently overly scummy. Icon had just voted Inferno (and with reasoning that imply it was s serious vote). how come he's questioning the worst over his scum read of the same slot?? Like, let me borrow your own style and ask: What is the goal of this post?

Subsequent posts from Icon though look like it's a play style problem. His "interrogating" style is more irritating than actually scummy.

@Icon/@Dino: have you guys played each other before? And if YES, can I get a link of the most recent game?

Thank you.

That dino v infernodra was a head ache to read[/quote

Very much agreed.

Also, noticed Uzi had voted Beefster, so..

UNVOTE:

FTR: Braffin's posts are MUCH better than Inferno's

Also also ROTFL @people confusing their games. (And now I'm paranoid of bring jinxed and doing it myself sooner than later)

The bottom 4 posts on page 6 are actually a blatant SCUM CLAIM. They're also borderline on ban-able because the use of that colour looks like a trust tell to me

VOTE: Gamma

^FINALLY found the opportunity to do what I had actually joined the game to do.

(4) InfernoBrafin: acryon, BuJaber, Beefster, MathDino

THIS is such a confusing wagon. Inferno isn't looking good I'd give you that, but neither is acro nor BuJ so far (a the top of page 7). However, Beef is a townie if I learned anything about his play from that Masons & Monks game (That's the one I was reminding Dino of earlier).

Dino is just Dino.. I'll probably trust him (HIM, but NOT his reads) until I see something different (like, maybe trying to play scummy to get lynched as a Jester and me falling for it??)

The fact both acro & BuJ are voting that slot coupled with Braffin's posting force me to up Info a bit on my read list, so back to null (which is ALSO confusing because with all that input I just can't decide whether I like or dislike the slot. I guess I'd have to wait for some flips to decide on that slot.

Beefster-scum doesn't fencesit on a read on me. I think he would either townread me to get me off his back or explicitly go after me in a gambit.

I don't think anyone would understand, but I now regret having subbed in w/o actually reading the game first. I do genuinely get paranoid when I catch up, form a read or an opinion, only to find someone else echoing the same thought at the very same point I would have sated it. I guess I'm well used to being opposed more than agreed with. *Sigh*

alright y'all, ill catch up this weekend. Just buried my mother this week. Sorry for the delay

Please accept my deepest condolences. I'm sorry for your loss.

@All: Given that LUV is engaging with players and asking fair questions, I feel like I should be townreading him, but I'm really not. A lot of it seems like it could be scum going through the motions. Comfortable with votes on LUV if you don't like the IB push.

Edit: oh hey TW what do you think of LUV

I also feel ike I've been forced to play seriously from the get go in this game and never got to do my thing, so I'm taking this opportunity to be the A50 I like to be in my games:

Spoiler:

You don't have to touch it to know

LUV

is everywhere you go
You don't have to touch it to feel

LUV

is every second we steal

LUV

is

LUV

is nothing without you

LUV

is

LUV

is everything you do
Open up your eyes
And you will see

LUV

is

LUV

is everything to me
You don't have to touch it to be
Wrapped up in emotion like me
Everyone must feel how I do, yeah

LUV

is just to be close to you

LUV

is

LUV

is nothing without you

LUV

is

LUV

is everything you do
Open up your eyes
And you will see

LUV

is

LUV

is everything to me
And you know that

LUV

is

LUV

It's written in black and blue
And everything you say
Must bring her closer, closer to you
Ba-ba (ooh), ba-ba (ooh), ba-ba (ooh)

Back to business.. at the end of page 9:

Town: Momrangal / the worst / Beefster / Mathdino
Conditional Town: Iconeum (conditional on MD)

Null: TheGoldenParadox / Assebmlerotws+momo hydra / Kthxbye / Marshy

Genuinely confusing: Brafin+Inferno hydra

Scum Lean: BuJaber

Scum Read: acryon

[Carrot and Stick]

inb4 assembler brought you in because you're better at scum

Actually Assembler started conversing with me specifically because he wanted to learn from my TOWN game, believe it or not. Yes scumastina is known for being a far, far, far, far more competent player than like 98% of scum players on the site, but Assembler wasn't really interested in her skills. The thing which got us talking was my talents as town. He wanted to see the magic in the process working, more or less.

On that note this is an awfully easy way for you to segue into discrediting and/or scumreading me if you don't like what I have to say.

Which, I imagine, you don't!

[Mathdino]

inb4 assembler brought you in because you're better at scum

Actually Assembler started conversing with me specifically because he wanted to learn from my TOWN game, believe it or not. Yes scumastina is known for being a far, far, far, far more competent player than like 98% of scum players on the site, but Assembler wasn't really interested in her skills. The thing which got us talking was my talents as town. He wanted to see the magic in the process working, more or less.

On that note this is an awfully easy way for you to segue into discrediting and/or scumreading me if you don't like what I have to say.

Which, I imagine, you don't!

that was a joke

i am not seriously scumreading you based on the fact that assembler brought you in

i also considered hydraing with you when i got back from hiatus (which you know) to specifically work on my towngame (which i value more than my scumgame)

but then i realised i wasn't as rusty as i thought i'd be and dropped it

[Carrot and Stick]

does mastina also think i'm mathblade

Frick I swore I corrected that. No, I know all too well you're not, it's just that when I type 'Math', my brain autofills it in with 'blade' and it takes an active effort to force it to be 'dino' instead.

Why is Buju town and what do you make of me having two followers on Buju?

The reason BuJaber is town is more or less because what he does has no scum in it and yet has fairly strong indicators of being town. What he says might not sound town, but the push driving it, the motivating factor behind it, undeniably rings town, not scum.

The reason you have two followers on him is. Bluntly. Because this is a town that until the replacements came in was mostly morons.
To be a little less blunt/rude, the following you have comes from players who're town, yet can't recognize the difference between a style they don't like and actual scum motivation. BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people. That's easy for less-experienced/skilled players to misinterpret as scum, but it's quite the opposite.

It's also one of the reasons why I think you're scum, because you're of a sufficient skill level where you should have been able to recognize this and see the very same things I'm indicating here.

Also how do you feel about how Buju engages me back?

His responses have felt like those of an inexperienced, slightly-bullheaded, and yet undeniably town player. He bleeds sincerity in thinking he has locked onto things which are meaningful, and I have felt that when he has posted, he feels he is bringing up good points regardless of whether those were actually good points or not. The drive of sincerity is there, where everything he's done I've thought wasn't faked.

[Carrot and Stick]

Mastina have you read a single town game of mine since I came back from 4 years ago?

Probably?

I wouldn't remember one way or another.

I'm just gonna wait until everyone catches up and is in real time before tearing this apart.
I think mastina thinks I'm someone else and is mixing up my playstyle with someone else.

Nope! Fine way to turn a typo on my part into an attempt to discredit my read though!

[Not_Mafia]

I think mastina night be drunk

[Carrot and Stick]

Town: Momrangal / the worst / Beefster / Mathdino
Scum Read: acryon

Did I mention Almost50 was town?

This would be another fine item demonstrating the why.

Where his reads are rats-ass backwards from mine save for one which he will inevitably back out of when he sees that I actually support him on it.

[Mathdino]

Nope! Fine way to turn a typo on my part into an attempt to discredit my read though!

wat

If, from my perspective, it was actually a typo, then that doesn't work at all to discredit your read.

If it wasn't a typo, and you actually thought I was Mathblade, then it would've been useless for me to try to respond to your apparently half-meta-based read on me before you fully caught up and realised your mistake.

Like obviously I disagree with your read given that it's incorrect. But I'm trying to figure out if you're wrong due to incorrect assumptions or just wrong because you're D1 mastina.

I'm also pretty peeved that I can't use you or A50 to help me sort acryon given that your reads on him are apparently "WELL I'M CALLING THE D1 SCUMTEAM AS MATHDINO/ACRYON" which I obviously can't do anything with.

[Mathdino]

Anyway point is your take on my play (especially my D1 play) being like a calculator is really not accurate as of me coming back (which is why I figured you thought I was Mathblade). Like, yeah I turn into a calculator when the playercount goes down (you should see me in micros) but D1 of minis I mostly play off gut.

I've also gotten a lot more confident lately (which is helped by a few towngames where I was basically right for all of D1), and either people are around to rein me in, or they're not.

When I push early wagons, I expect that others will weigh in. I'm glad you disagree on the IB read, because we can actually talk about it (instead of me and IB shouting at each other for pages on end). I can easily get locked in tunnels in "sub-par towns".

I'm not glad that you chose to just call IB obvtown and base your read on me around that, though. So it would be pretty nice if you explained why IB is obvtown.

[Carrot and Stick]

I think mastina night be drunk

Nope! Am as sober as I get.

I'll crash a few hours from now but I'm rather awake.

Mathdino is scum; your read there is right.
acryon is scum; Almost50's read there is right.
Momrangal is scum; my read there is...well, most likely right but let's not elevate it to the level of your reads since if I were wrong on a scumread it'd be most likely to be her.

Final readslist is:
Lil Uzi Vert/Almost50
alban/marshy/Not_Mafia
Iconeum
BuJaber
TheGoldenParadox
InfernoBrafin

(notable gap)

The Worst
Beefster

(small gap)

Kthxbye

(big gaping canyon of a gap)

Momrangal
acryon
Mathdino

Mathdino is in his scum meta. I know the difference between him and Mathblade, but trying to imply I think he's them when it was clearly a typo on my part is the latest in the reasons why he's scum. (I might mentally type 'Mathblade' when I mean 'Mathdino', but I would never confuse the two as players. Not least of all because Mathblade is a close friend of mine that I have interactions with outside of mafiascum whereas Mathdino is more of a close associate.)

[Mathdino]

mastina haven't you literally gone on record saying that you can't meta players when you only know one side of their meta? Or was that someone else?

I'm at the point where I literally think all your scumreads are likely town (Marangal is currently unsortable by me granted) and half your townreads are scum.

[Carrot and Stick]

Nope! Fine way to turn a typo on my part into an attempt to discredit my read though!

wat
If, from my perspective, it was actually a typo, then that doesn't work at all to discredit your read.

My point is:
You turned what was clearly a typo (given I had multiple times typed your name as Mathdino prior to accidentally once typing it as Mathblade) into a multi-post series of trying to frame the narrative that I thought you were Mathblade. (I don't.) It was taking advantage of what was a very unambiguous mistake on my part and making the most out of it.

I'm also pretty peeved that I can't use you or A50 to help me sort acryon given that your reads on him are apparently "WELL I'M CALLING THE D1 SCUMTEAM AS MATHDINO/ACRYON" which I obviously can't do anything with.

What happened to your own townread on him? You should have him sorted off of reasoning of your own, given you stated he was town in no less than five places.

Which magically upon the entrance of Almost50 an influential player scumreading him went to best to sort on a different day.

Which bullshit narrative would you like to stick with? Your original "acryon is town" read, your "acryon is best sorted after D1" read, or your newest as of this post "I can't sort acryon without help" read?

[Carrot and Stick]

Anyway point is your take on my play (especially my D1 play) being like a calculator is really not accurate as of me coming back (which is why I figured you thought I was Mathblade). Like, yeah I turn into a calculator when the playercount goes down (you should see me in micros) but D1 of minis I mostly play off gut.

Well then you'd just be scum then outright if you don't do the calculator thing as town.

Because that was my point.

The calculator thing comes from scum.

It'd be POSSIBLE to come from a town you doing the calculator thing.
But it's undeniable.
This game you've done the calculator thing.
The calculator thing comes from scum.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by stating that it was at least a possibility you'd do the calculator thing as town...

...But sure, if you say you wouldn't do the calculator thing as town, I'm fine with that because that means you're outright admitting it came from scum.

[Momrangal]

I missed his first post and thought bujus second post was his first and made my push based off that.

Now he's less piggy backy but I still feel odd about that big post.

I don't like that it took him a second time to just straight up say "yes people should have more posts after 48 hrs" and his first reaction was to just Shade me and fluff himself up.

The whole "I'm important and I'm being productive" is an argument I feel is more scum and admittedly something I feel like I do more of as scum.

As far as his reactivity goes, I am not a fan that he brought up the fact that he made a read list.

Granted it was more well thought out than the usual but still jus t that and his first post are his two most notable contributions.

[Carrot and Stick]

mastina haven't you literally gone on record saying that you can't meta players when you only know one side of their meta? Or was that someone else?

My stance on meta cannot be succinctly described that way, no.

[Mathdino]

mastina if you're not planning on engaging me at all outside of just repeatedly calling me scum for every post, then I'm not gonna stick around until other players come back. Like do you actually want to get anything out of this interaction?

You call me a competent town player but don't seem to care about my reads in the case that I actually am town.

[Momrangal]

This is going real fast gosh

[Carrot and Stick]

I don't like that it took him a second time to just straight up say "yes people should have more posts after 48 hrs" and his first reaction was to just Shade me and fluff himself up.
The whole "I'm important and I'm being productive" is an argument I feel is more scum and admittedly something I feel like I do more of as scum.
As far as his reactivity goes, I am not a fan that he brought up the fact that he made a read list.

None of what you are saying here (but these parts especially) resonates on any level--in fact, the opposite, these feel like absolutely hollow arguments with no actual critical thought applied to them.

[Carrot and Stick]

You call me a competent town player but don't seem to care about my reads in the case that I actually am town.

Well that's because simply put you aren't town. And honestly given the stark contrast between your reads and mine, I'm not going to trust them even if you flipped town. I'd reconsider come D3 and use your corpse plus the lynch of D2 and bodies of N1 and N2 to scumhunt. Not a moment sooner.

To put it simply: I think you are scum. I am lynching you today.
If you are not scum, then my scumread was incorrect. I will reconsider reads D2, but given that most of my reads I still feel good about regardless of your alignment, I doubt there'd be much in the way of change.
If my reads prove incorrect a second time, then come D3 yes I will go back and think of what you said.

No sooner.

So yes. I don't care about your reads right now. I will in the future if you flip town, but that requires you to actually flip town, something I do not believe will happen.

[Mathdino]

You turned what was clearly a typo (given I had multiple times typed your name as Mathdino prior to accidentally once typing it as Mathblade) into a multi-post series of trying to frame the narrative that I thought you were Mathblade. (I don't.) It was taking advantage of what was a very unambiguous mistake on my part and making the most out of it.

You're not understanding. FMPOV, either

1. You actually thought I was Mathblade, and it was thus useless to respond to your posts when you thought I was someone else,
or
2. You didn't actually think I was Mathblade, in which case you were gonna come back and correct your error anyway.

It seems like you're assuming that I, as scum, would somehow know that you made an error there and specifically tried to discredit your case based around that error... when you were just gonna tell me "NOPE FUCK YOUR DISCREDIT" the moment you caught up. How does that help me?

I'm also pretty peeved that I can't use you or A50 to help me sort acryon given that your reads on him are apparently "WELL I'M CALLING THE D1 SCUMTEAM AS MATHDINO/ACRYON" which I obviously can't do anything with.

What happened to your own townread on him? You should have him sorted off of reasoning of your own, given you stated he was town in no less than five places.

Which magically upon the entrance of Almost50 an influential player scumreading him went to best to sort on a different day.

Which bullshit narrative would you like to stick with? Your original "acryon is town" read, your "acryon is best sorted after D1" read, or your newest as of this post "I can't sort acryon without help" read?

1. Yeah, I gutread him as town based on page 1. Anyone who disagreed with me had a pretty shitty argument. So I stuck to my own reasoning.

2. aaaand when A50 comes in and says "Hey Mathdino most of your reads seem right but this one seems off-base" then yeah, I'm gonna listen. That said, acryon is a good player (definitely better than you're describing but idk if you've played with him) and I have little confidence in my ability to catch scum-him on D1. He can be caught on associations. I've played with scum-him.

3. A50's argument is fair. So I'm not calling acryon "locktown" but I am putting him in the "let's townbin him for now since he's not a good D1 lynch and reevaluate upon D2". That's actually the bin I usually reserve for players like A50. There are certain people I just don't like to lynch on D1.

It'd be POSSIBLE to come from a town you doing the calculator thing.
But it's undeniable.
This game you've done the calculator thing.
The calculator thing comes from scum.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by stating that it was at least a possibility you'd do the calculator thing as town...

...But sure, if you say you wouldn't do the calculator thing as town, I'm fine with that because that means you're outright admitting it came from scum.

My interpretation of "the calculator thing" is that when D3 rolls around I start coming up with VCA, NKA, associatives all over the place, and more specifically, lynch orders (which is 100% what you saw in my scumgame).

Yet D1 of that scumgame was spent tunneling Gamma, complaining about the game, and soft-defending Creature. All basically gut/emotional plays.

So you're gonna have to explain what you mean by "that calculator thing".

[Momrangal]

No?

I mean he was being defensive which was the point I was trying to make and really I didn't see a reason for him to feel as such as town.

In that huge post of mostly AtE he really did nothing but try to call me a noobtown who was playing against the town better interest.

He straight up said I was either scum or playing against towns win on and didn't know how to play well with town, even though I have showed the desire to sort out at least one other person as well as work with them

I don't see a reason to shade a person like that as town

I definitely don't like how he plays the victim afterward. I don't like how he's went from trying to fight me to trying to appease me when it looked like the fight was going to go against his favod

[Momrangal]

Like, I isoed both him and beef to make sure I was attributing posts to the right person when I realized it the first time around and was about ready to admit a few mistakes but that turnaround is jarring

[Almost50]

i guess i'm obvjester

which is funny cuz i just beat james brafin in a game where i was jester and got myself lynched lol

OK, this is the 2nd time you mention this. Are Brafin & Vax the same person??

Re: TGP's confidence in Math's alignment; I've done such silly gambits before myself. It's NAI. I would bet the game on someone being Scum/Town and be stubborn about it too at times.

hey can we get a prod on the Assembler/momo hydra

That seems like the worst combination

I'm surprised momo didn't post even once. Did he flake site?

VOTE: Momrangal

And my town bloc starts the imploding process.

And Gamma's doing it again. THIS MOD IS SCUM, I tell you!

marshy has requested replacement.
Edit: Not_Mafia replaces marshy.

*ROTFL*

Oh, my!

@Mod: Would you please update the players list in the opening post accordingly? It would be nice to know whom I'm playing with beforehand, as well as making it easier to ISO a certain slot later into the game (I'm that 50 y.o. fart with the bad memory, yo!)

Z

VOTE: Not_Mafia

i'm so salty

Don't tell me! You're the Jester, he's the Doctor, and we're toast!!

i'd say it's 40% policy 40% reaction/pressure 20% memes

Umm.. so am I allowed to drive or not after having that??

@Math: Did you include Gamma deliberately in your reads? Hmmm.. probably not. I hadn't even joined the game by then so it can't be that you are baiting me.

But still, man.. you know THAT is why I SR'd srceen in the game you were modding, so excuse me if I'm starting to really be wary of you.

fuck i mixed up my games lol

GDI! And same excuse too. Now why would you confuse ONLY ONE SLOT and not any other(s)??

Almost50 replaces Lil Uzi Vert

Heil myself!

Anything worth reading/knowing yet??

Not really, but it didn't hurt, did it?

Also
Carrot and Stick (hydra of Assebmlerotws and mastina) replaces Sing and Slay

Here come the hotstepper

Basically I think we're in a situation where it's either me or IB or Mom today so it comes down to how people read us.

Let's leave mom out of this, shall we?? In fact, let's keep both our parents out of it.

Inferno:

Hey, Almost! Can I see some reads on you regarding:
BuJaber
Iconeum+TheWorst
MathDino vs. InfernoBrafin

And any other things you've noticed?

BuJaber is likely the opposite alignment of yours. The problem is I can't decide which if you is Town here.

I don't know why you paired Iconeum with TW, when I'm more leaning he and Dino are of the same alignment.

TW is obv!town to me, and so are mom and Beef.

MathDino vs. InfernoBrafin (i.e. your slot) I think Math is Town here, but I'm having second thoughts..

Your slot is very likely the opposite alignment of BuJaber's so I think our best option is to lynch between the two of you, but I want to see more to decide WHICH of you I want to lynch more.

I'm getting a definite "help me scumpartner, I'm having a really hard time getting these two lynched and I want a backup opinion to help solidify" vibe from this.

You're not doing yourself (or your partner) any favours saying that before I even got anything out. I could easily see this as a "Don't side by him or I'll come after you" kind of subtle threat.

My advice is to get Brafin to talk to me, bc -seriously- you're making me want to lynch you every time you post.

So I'm at the point where I'd be willing to policy lynch half the playerlist

And on a note of irrelevance I'm really loving my new name

What was the old one, if I may ask?

EoPage 13

[Momrangal]

Ms Marangal