Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[acryon]

Mathdino is town. I will literally quit mafiascum if math is scum here.
Effortpost tommorrow, too tired today.

I MISSED THIS
It feels like the probability of town saying this so confidently is pretty low. Other than that though I like Paradox so treat this as a FOS

This is a good point, though scum usually tries to avoid confident town reads like this for that very reason.

"Scum usually". I think it's just as likely scum recognizes Math as very "townie" and would like to kill him for towncred.

I've just had bad experiences playing with hydras because they became lynchbait because the heads had conflicting opinions.

Scum points awarded. You admit that in your experience "hydrae/hydras are lynchbait" so you

vote

them???

Subsequent votes on the hydra by BuJaber and the worst are a bit worrying, but I'll accept these were RVS votes with a grain of salt (especially the worst who switched his vote quickly. Only if the hydra actually flips scum will I have another "different" look at this switch)

Interesting. So my vote on 16 isn't accepted as RVS, but others are? I would argue mine is better, because it created more discussion and pushed us out of RVS quicker. The only purpose of RVS is to get out of RVS, so I'm not going to apologize for what I do to get us out of it.

BuJaber
Beefster

The Worst

Iconeum
alban
Kthxbye

InfernoBrafin
Momrangal
TheGoldenParadox
Lil Uzi Vert
Mathdino
acryon

I think I'm somewhere around here as of bottom of 3.

I have a vested interest in this, but this readlist requires explanation. You're townreading Beefster and BuJaber, who have both gotten heat. You're scumreading half the player list with no explanation. Help me understand.

Also I'm basically down to policy lynch brafin at this point

This alone is a scumclaim from Mathdino.

Is scum!Dino this blatant about a PL, especially on someone that he would know is town?

The reason I'd finger acryon and MathDino specifically is a combination of a few things.
-Slightly Burden of Proficiency, in that while I don't have the highest expectations of BuJaber and certainly have low ones of the worst I hold acryon and MathDino to a higher standard.
-The reasons stated for staying on the wagon/joining in the first place. I vaguely buy The Worst, as town who has a sub-par playstyle (no offense meant but it's literally in your name that you're the worst ), believes what he does and would join.
BuJaber in his push feels like wrong town in that I can understand why he has gone where he has but I don't think his vote is right.

Yet with acryon and Mathdino, that's absent.
For those two, their reasons for being on the wagon are questionable, at best. They don't resonate with me at all.

And when you pair that with the first, that amplifies things.
NOT ONLY do I expect them to have a higher standard of play, BUT ALSO they have less reasons than the lower-standard-of-play players for staying on that wagon. It's a double-whammy of reasons why they're suspicious-as-fuck.

I understand why you would lump us together to an extent, but I also think we've played pretty different games from each other, and my reason for jumping on InfernoBrafin in the first place was RVS. I stayed on because it's produced some good pressure and content I think.

Just like quickly caught up. Still processing everything a little but gut says
VOTE: Carrot and Stick

Replacing in like 9-10 days out from deadline, attempting to sweepingly discredit nearly the entire player list for being "morons" then War and Peace-casing the fuck out of the player who has BY FAR been the most proactive pre-replacements is nuts.

This feels like a ploy to win towncred/town leader position and not an active scumhunt.

Just need to decide for myself whether this play is too poor for scum!C&S honestly


P.S. my duck cuz is reading town to me. Still liking inferno less but this slot is more nullish/nulltown I think.

Was about to summarize saying I liked IB a good bit more after the weekend, and then was going to vote Carrot and Stick, but the worst has done the work for me.

VOTE: Carrot and Stick

Also Almost50 is town, although wrong.

[Mathdino]

Adding acryon to the growing list of players who won't tell me why IB is town

[BuJaber]

@acryon - why did you comment on carrot's first readlist (the one he claims is correct up to page 3), but not the second?

[acryon]

@acryon - why did you comment on carrot's first readlist (the one he claims is correct up to page 3), but not the second?

Because I was quoting as I went through, and the initial one was posted for a reason. I was interested in his reasoning for that one, not his toned-down version a few posts later. His second one was a whole 15 minutes later (clearly a good chunk of those minutes spent on posts in-between), so I'm not giving them much credit for an abundance of critical analysis happening between the two.

Adding acryon to the growing list of players who won't tell me why IB is town

The thought process doesn't feel scum-motivated. 302 and 315 are prime examples of this I think. I'm not saying the slot is a firm lock for town, but I'm also not comfortable leaving my vote there given how town some of their posts have looked.

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno and brafin.. right now are you both scumreading mathdino?

Inferno:

I'm actually rethinking my read on him. Tbh, his play has a lot of the same intensity that I feel like I have this game, and I'm thinking that our bagnning exchange was just TvT that was really hardcore. I need to ISO him, and read back through the C&S posts.

[InfernoBrafin]

But I am town!

Why is Buju town and what do you make of me having two followers on Buju?

Also how do you feel about how Buju engages me back?

Inferno:

So far, this is what stuck out. I'm having a hard time sorting the last few pages, so I'm probably going to reread... and reread... and reread.
I just want to point out that this is a really weird way to phrase this question. It looks like scum laying a trap.

Also, I would also like to know why all these people are calling this slot obvtown, becasue I can tell where the scumreads on me are coming from. So I don't understand what part of my play is making me obvtown.

[Beefster]

Just like quickly caught up. Still processing everything a little but gut says
VOTE: Carrot and Stick

Replacing in like 9-10 days out from deadline, attempting to sweepingly discredit nearly the entire player list for being "morons" then War and Peace-casing the fuck out of the player who has BY FAR been the most proactive pre-replacements is nuts.

This feels like a ploy to win towncred/town leader position and not an active scumhunt.

Just need to decide for myself whether this play is too poor for scum!C&S honestly


P.S. my duck cuz is reading town to me. Still liking inferno less but this slot is more nullish/nulltown I think.

Chainsaw defense?

[Mathdino]

Objectively, yeah it was

But considering I never made indication that I wanted to wagon/lynch mastina today, I don't really see the scum benefit here

Would be much easier to suck up to me by talking about me being town than to counterwagon me on someone I don't even really support

[Beefster]

acryon's vote looks opportunistic.

[Beefster]

Why would I suck up to you? The fact remains that I find your posts uncanny and C&S essentially explained why my intuition is pinged by you. I'm not 100% certain that makes you scum, but I'll say it's enough to go on for now.

[Mathdino]

Agree on that

Too many hypothetical scenarios about the gamestate tbh

Seems like he could convince himself to vote anyone really

Edit: the fuck? I'm talking about the worsr

[Beefster]

pedit: the acryon post got ninja'd by yours. I posted it before I saw your response to my chainsaw defense comment.

I'd settle for an acryon lynch.

[Beefster]

Though that would pretty much be based on the one post, so...

[Beefster]

Anyway... Gotta go to work now.

[acryon]

acryon's vote looks opportunistic.

I think opportunism being scummy requires some amount of trying to look like it's something it's not. I was pretty up-front in my sheeping. I suppose you're welcome to not believe that I actually felt what I felt, but calling it opportunistic when I was so open about it seems

opportunistic

.

[Mathdino]

I disagree that self awareness nullifies the scumminess of actions

[InfernoBrafin]

Brafin:

It's interactions like these that makes feel like Beef and Math not compatible as scumteam. They are too natural and real to be from SvS.

Acron is striking me as scum. His vote seems kind of out there and OMGUS-y. Not much explanation on the vote.

Math, if we explained to you why your play was scummy, it would be detrimental to town, wouldn't it?
See, this is another example of lack of consistency. He expects the meta rules he puts out there to only apply to him (he can call people scummy without scumreading, he's not allowed to explain his reads on others but others should explain reads on him, etc.) It strikes me as a very un-townie way to play. I'm still not prepared to say scum, but it's just can't find justification for it as town.

[Momrangal]

BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people.

What. The fuck. Are you reading?

Outside of his first post and his pushes back on me and his pushes on IB he's very much a cheerleader

[Momrangal]

Well, I guess not a cheerleader but he's like...

Not what you said.

[BuJaber]

But I am town!

Why is Buju town and what do you make of me having two followers on Buju?

Also how do you feel about how Buju engages me back?

Inferno:

So far, this is what stuck out. I'm having a hard time sorting the last few pages, so I'm probably going to reread... and reread... and reread.
I just want to point out that this is a really weird way to phrase this question. It looks like scum laying a trap.

Also, I would also like to know why all these people are calling this slot obvtown, becasue I can tell where the scumreads on me are coming from. So I don't understand what part of my play is making me obvtown.

This is enough for me to switch my vote to Mom. If you're willing to throw shade at Mom now (with no real pressure on mom), that makes my theory that you two are scum partners a lot weaker. If you are now distancing yourself after you and mom were buddying the whole game then you've outdone yourself and it would be excellent scum play but I just don't think scum would do that.

Plus I've been rereading your slot's posts and I think it would be really weird for the two heads of the hydra to play so differently consistently if you are scum. You're doing way too much weird shit and being all over the place. Scum would probably be more self-conscious about it.

VOTE: Mom


Mom if I flip town who would you scumread?

[Mathdino]

Math, if we explained to you why your play was scummy, it would be detrimental to town, wouldn't it?
See, this is another example of lack of consistency. He expects the meta rules he puts out there to only apply to him (he can call people scummy without scumreading, he's not allowed to explain his reads on others but others should explain reads on him, etc.) It strikes me as a very un-townie way to play. I'm still not prepared to say scum, but it's just can't find justification for it as town.

Brafin, you need to step back for a second and realise that basically every interpretation you've made of my play has rested on bad assumptions or misunderstandings.

Really. Get that into your head.

No other player in this game, including the people scumreading me, is having these same issues with me that you are. The reason I stopped engaging with you is because you were impossible to deal with in that sense. I explain things to you, and you come back with the exact same misunderstanding.

I'll lay it all out for you. Again.

1. "Scummy" =/= "scum-indicative". This is the way I use the words. Get over it. Everyone has seen me use words like that before.

2. I thought your hydra's play on page 1 was scummy. I thought to myself, "huh, maybe they're deliberately trying to be scummy to get reactions". Then I thought "or maybe they're just a combination of players that's naturally scummy together". Neither of those things helps me get a read. I was nullreading you.

3. You asked me what about your play was scummy, indicating that you weren't being deliberate about it. I thought to myself, "well, I'm not actually scumreading them; to tell them how they're scummy would be giving them a road map on how to get townreads easier, or could end up modifying their play". Because I didn't know whether or not you were scum, I decided that explaining that would serve no positive purpose (other than, perhaps, getting you to townread me, which I don't really care about).

4. Later on, when I started actually scumreading you, you'll see that I explained the specific parts that were scum indicative. This had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with:
- Your early game
- The way you interact with your partner
- The words discussion that you can't seem to understand
- You getting in a prolonged fight with me

I'll leave it to you to go find the post where I actually explain why I voted you. You'll also notice that I specifically said it had nothing to do with your scummy early game (which I believe was NAI).

I always explain my scumreads. I don't explain to people how they're just generally acting scummy unless they're explicitly acting anti-town.

[Momrangal]

But I am town!

Why is Buju town and what do you make of me having two followers on Buju?

Also how do you feel about how Buju engages me back?

Inferno:

So far, this is what stuck out. I'm having a hard time sorting the last few pages, so I'm probably going to reread... and reread... and reread.
I just want to point out that this is a really weird way to phrase this question. It looks like scum laying a trap.

Also, I would also like to know why all these people are calling this slot obvtown, becasue I can tell where the scumreads on me are coming from. So I don't understand what part of my play is making me obvtown.

This is less laying a trap and see how much attention she's really paying in her catch up.

Mastin can easily get stuck in her thoughts and mindset as much as I can and the fact that she's missed the facts that

Her associatives are off. I started the game off trying to pull dino towards me despite his continued desire of avoidance. There is no distancing at all, at least where I stand on the dino slot

She also failed to realize that only one of those who is backing me on Buju is in her town reads. The other is my supposed scum buddy.

I also want to see where she stands on Bujus interaction back to me because I am not gonna see my targets as objectively as I would want and her opinions have merit

The fact that two people saw something in that same wall post, and one of those two saw genuineness and

mastin

sees that as well is more than enough to get me to back off for a little moment.

[acryon]

I disagree that self awareness nullifies the scumminess of actions

To go back to the discussion earlier, I think that the self-awareness is what separates between a "scummy" action and and scummy action coming from scum, although I don't get to be the jury on myself.

Brafin:

Acron is striking me as scum. His vote seems kind of out there and OMGUS-y. Not much explanation on the vote.

I thought I was clear on this with my sheep of the worst's post, which explained things well on a base level, but I can elaborate.

327 starts with garbage. Saying 4 of the 5 people are scummy as of post 20. This should be the first red flag.
330 I have already commented on, but has fully half the game in scum category. If this isn't building up a massive lynch pool, then I don't know what is.
335 feels like theater, as if they hadn't reviewed the posts of their slot first. Are we really believing that?
342 don't get me started on. the worst already mentioned this, but this is absurd "bow to me, your mafia king" pontificating lacking little real content for the sake of scumhunting other than to tell everyone that they should trust them because "everyone in this game sucks, but thankfully I was able to immediately adjust and I nailed it anyway".

I'll stop here, but especially if they think the overall playerbase in this game is as "sub-par" as they say, their ISO

reeks

of attempts to manipulate through appeals to authority.

[acryon]

I would've loved to have been the first to vote C&S, but unfortunately they were active during times when I don't play.

[Momrangal]

Ok that's enough with that shit

Pedit: reallt