Open 710: MKUltra - Foreign Spies Win!

[Not_Mafia]

this is gonna be mostly shoot from the hip
scumhunting in multiball is just as shit as ever
open queue needs more singleball games
anyway

This does read incredibly forced

[Aneninen]

VCs.

(1) Was Not Mafia an RVS wagon?
(2) Was the RedFlavour wagon a counter to Beefster's? (Meanwhile my slot was wagoned too.)
(3) Who was scum here?

Kop

, GuyInFreezer, Not_Mafia, Sesq, Beefster,

Hawk

, Mikan Tsumiki

(2) and (3) looks important, especially because the Beefster-wagon seemed to fade into nothingness.

[Aneninen]

this is gonna be mostly shoot from the hip
scumhunting in multiball is just as shit as ever
open queue needs more singleball games
anyway

This does read incredibly forced

That's terrible indeed. Although, withough knowing its context I don't know whether it's an alignment tell or not.
I can't see why it would be harder to scumhunt in a multiball (assuming there's no SK). Why did he sign up for the game then?
What has his replacement done so far?

[GuyInFreezer]

I have a very reaching tinfoil theory of Sky/Mikan blueteam.
How far should I speculate this?

[GuyInFreezer]

Of course, there is SOME minor reasons to even think of that in the first place.

1. Sky's claiming that RC was obvdoc seemed like being cheeky scum
2. Mikan vs RC was Mikan just being snarky and then now she's back to doing nothing.
3. They both have reasons to kill RC, even though he barely did nothing D1.

[Aneninen]

Fuck that was meant for the Scum PT
OHHHHHHHHHHHNOOOOOOOOO

I know it was a long time ago but I don't think Not_Mafia used to post jokes like this by the time I was active. (I mean his earlier scum-claim too.)

I am NEVER widely townread. I have no clue why. Math’s point is fair because I am typically scumread and Math is typically townread and part of the entire point of this hydra is to fix that. So yeah I’ll probably need his excessive towniness to balance out my bad play.

Was Technical Difficulties a hydra? Regardless of the answer this post is scummy.

hi
skitter is right about everything
except this
VOTE: titi and tael

Another terrible post (as a first post).

I don't know what to think about the fact that you're apologising for voting us. Your voting post seemed pretty sure, backtracking from it feels off. Also hi again!

That was about Sesq too.
In my very first scum game I apologized when I hammered a townie. 102 was just as bad.

VOTE: Iconeum
Like...43 could have been funny and RVSy. But your 51, 54, and 58 are just...unnecessary and fake. Especially 58.
Talk to you Monday, I guess. Wouldn't be surprised to see you pop in soon.

And what if he wanted to find an inactive player whom he could scumread without much danger?

(Until the second VC. I'm not reading everything thoroughly but feel free to point out anything.)

[Aneninen]

First up, even though I've been V/LA, I only went 2 days and 22 hours without a post. Not Mafia has gone 79 hours and, as the saying goes,

'has been active elsewhere on the site'

.

If that really happened that may be a tell.
In that post SkyPaladin voted for Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia gave a naked vote for RedFlavour in the very next post.

VOTE: sky because i want to.

Whut?

As for the 159 VC. My intuition says, Not_Mafia and TechnicalDifficulties are both scum but not with each other.

Was the Beefster-wagon launched by TD, in 167? Sesq and RedFlavour jumped on it on the same page. Than came Iconeum. And Sky Paladin.

Beefster wagon was too fast...not scum, I think.

Hmmmm... soft-defense?

T&T's mumble case is garbage. Mumble is obvtown.

Hmmmm...

Assuming bussing is less common in multiballs and 2-people scumteams have to defend each other more than eg. 3-member teams in a singleball, this was interesting.

Oh My Gods, how many times did TD post "after" replacing out?

Beefster was vote-hopping all the time. (Although that's not an alignment tell in itself.)

Meanwhile a wagon emerged on my slot without too much reasoning. And on Not_Mafia again, as far as I can see.

H-hello!
My name is Mikan Tsumiki. I-I am the ultimate nurse!
My m-master told me to join this game because I had to be punished
Uuuuuu
I-I hate multiball

VOTE: Hawk
I-I'm sorry you're scum, please fry me on a gristle.

Eeeeeeeeew! Was that a joke?

Okay guys you got me, I can't handle the pressure anymore, I'm Ice Mafia, you can leash me if you spare my life

Wow.
I remember replacing into a Newbie where my predecessor joke-claimed scum on Day1 and had terrible posts. As town. I have the same feeling now. (Even if I'll get scumread for saying this. Should I post that "Okay guys you got me..." line too?)

I agree, anyone who claims scum is scum

Ummmmmmmmmmm...

I am Mikan Tsumiki!
I am the Ultimate Nurse!

This page is full of quality posts.

Actually I'm quite aware of that.
I'm just trolling.
Seriously trolling.
Because I'm always serious.

Okay, now I give up and jump ahead a bit.
I simply don't know what was going on here. (Yeah, I should have read everything thoroughly but it's late here.)

u-uh I'm sorry.
P-Please forgive me and make me your pet if you must!
aaaaaaaaah
VOTE: Hawk

I'm not sure whether that hammer was ballsy scum or town. Only time will tell, I suppose.

And that was not a hammer.
Which means, TD/Mikan Tsumiki is not scum? As far as I can remember, I haven't seen scum performing that fake-hammer trick before.

So, the RedFlavour wagon. GiF's vote may be okay (I haven't read everything, remember), Not_Mafia's vote naked, Sesq seemed to be willing to jump anywhere, Mikan's one empty. Beefter's one empty.

First off you're scum
Second off I've survived the first night of my presence in game one game this year and it's also my only win
Gif is scum trying to bait the doc off me to kill me
If I am dead 1) doc is a moron and 2) speedlynch gif

And he got Nightkilled, didn't he?

If doc doesn't target me they don't deserve my reads.

???
Don't tell me you're Mikan and you slipped!

Mikan is scum, GIF probable partner

Then no. Then who? Tatl?

Who else is alt?

________

Going on with Day2 tomorrow.

[GuyInFreezer]

????????

[skitter30]

I haven't read the entirety of day 1 but I don't like much the mikan votes.

Why? I think they're rather scummy.

A)The speed of the Beefster wagon makes me think the RF lynch wasn't scumpiling;

I don't understand the connection between the first half of this quote and the second half.

B)Kop's iso reads as low key no content: with susp on mikan and tatl , but not enough that it looks like defensive NK. -> I guess the NK was targetting a possible low poster flying under the radar doc.
C)The Taetl iso looks like a bunch a crap I'm hard pressed to see the rhyme to that kill so won't speculated there.

Did you get to Tatl's twilight posts? Wasn't such a huge jump from those posts to the fact that he might be the doc.

Man TD rep-out post still bothers me.

+1

(also mathblade and mathdino are different people)

VCs.

(1) Was Not Mafia an RVS wagon?
(2) Was the RedFlavour wagon a counter to Beefster's? (Meanwhile my slot was wagoned too.)
(3) Who was scum here?

Kop

, GuyInFreezer, Not_Mafia, Sesq, Beefster,

Hawk

, Mikan Tsumiki

(2) and (3) looks important, especially because the Beefster-wagon seemed to fade into nothingness.

1. iirc, yes. At least, I don't think that any reason was given for it beyond lol!NM.

2. Kinda? Beef happened, collapsed, there was a bunch of scattered votes, Hawk happened somewhere, and then GIF got Red to happen. I don't recall offhand if Red was a signifcant wagon between Beef the lynch. Beef consistently had a few votes throughout the whole day phase I think.

3. Unknown. I think Beef = Mikan > Gif > NM > Sesq, although I don't understand NM or Sesq and Sesq was voting someone she thought was town. I think the wagon is gross but this premise is meeting resistance. I'm in middle of trying to get sky to explain to me why he's objecting to me trying to analyze wagon but he hasn't responded in a few days, so yeah.

What has his replacement done so far?

Roleplay, causing Mumble to replace out.

I have a very reaching tinfoil theory of Sky/Mikan blueteam.
How far should I speculate this?

I'd be very interested in hearing about this theory.

Was Technical Difficulties a hydra? Regardless of the answer this post is scummy.

Yes a hydra, yes like all of their posts were scummy since the very beginning.

Was the Beefster-wagon launched by TD, in 167? Sesq and RedFlavour jumped on it on the same page. Than came Iconeum. And Sky Paladin.

Yes, TD started it. I picked it apart 195

In post 405, Tatl and Tael wrote:
First off you're scum
Second off I've survived the first night of my presence in game one game this year and it's also my only win
Gif is scum trying to bait the doc off me to kill me
If I am dead 1) doc is a moron and 2) speedlynch gif

And he got Nightkilled, didn't he?

Yes, and flipped doc too. (RC is Tael or Tatl or whichever head of that hydra he is; Alisae is Mikan)

[skitter30]

@mod: v/la till Friday

[Beefster]

VOTE: Sesq

I don't like her sheeping and admiration of GIF.

I also saw a vote on one of my scum reads, so...

I'm wandering and being lazy. Sue me.

[Sesq]

oh my god ane make a FUCKING point JESUS

i dont remember where my vote was UNVOTE:

beef seems appetizing but i do want to hold back

his vote on me is stupid but that's obvious

readlist?

town: gif, sky, skitter
null: nm, beef, ane, ico, springlullaby
scum: non

i need to eat

[Sky_Paladin]

@Skitter re 553

a -

a) Why you have a problem with me voting Beef even though I'm criticizing the wagon. One of the major reasons I'm scumreading him - and therefore voting him - is because of how he interacted with it. Specifically because he let GIF talk him into voting pretty easily, like without really evaluating it for himself, but then blamed him for it today. Like yesterday he was happy to go along with whatever was being pushed (this is one of those complacency votes I was talking about before) but today he tried to duck responsibility for being on a townflip by blaming GIF.

Why can't you 'abide' my Beef vote exactly? Like I don't really get why you're treating 'voting Beef' and 'criticizing the wagon and not really pushing any other angle' as being like contradictory or mutually exclusive notions.

I have an issue because you're saying players x/y/z are bad for voting player w, but you are also voting w. You are also hedging your bets by simultaneously wanting to back a GiF lynch, but I don't see you really trying to engineer this despite most of your posts being about why GiF is scum (until you voted Beef), and even after voting Beef, you're still making posts about why we should lynch GiF instead.

b) why you don't like my criticism of the wagon in general? Like I strongly believe that there's very likely scum on that wagon given that it was a townflip in multiball and someone on it already flipped green. Is this a premise you disagree with?

I don't have a problem with you criticising the wagon. I have a problem with you criticising the wagon

and then getting on it

.

To my knowledge, the wagon you had an issue with was the RF wagon, as stated in your 541:

No, because I don't like the Red wagon, neither yesterday nor how GIF is fine with its lackadaisical composition despite Red flipping town.

OK fine. So the argument of where did the Red wagon come from is a valid direction and it is fair to look at those votes. I have no issue with that.

Your conclusion was that

Beefster is scum because of that wagon

and the votes that were for RF comprised of one-or-more scum teams.

Not a problem! I can see where you are coming from.

In your 544 you highlight:

It's a town wagon in multiball. Kop flipped green. Are you really trying to discredit the notion that amongst {Gif/NM/Sesq/Beef/Hawk/Mikan} there's likely to be scum?

But the only players you looked at from that wagon are

Beefster and GiF

. It only makes sense for GiF to bail Beefster out if they are buddies together.

Do you think that's what happened? I personally think that's not plausible, in the same vein that I don't think it makes sense for a player to kill Kop after coming in to ask about him, and any player who sits down for more than a few seconds to think about it would come to the same conclusion. So my thought is, I don't think Skitter is really pushing this seriously because if she was thinking about it, she would come to the same conclusion I did, and, therefore look at the other players on the wagon since she believes those votes were bad. That's any of NM, Sesq, Hawk or Mikan (to be fair, Hawk was away, and NM is 'difficult', but Mikan/Sesq are present and could be engaged) and this of course assumes that scum were even on the wagon.

You didn't consider this but it seems obvious to me. And then I wonder, if you're not pushing it seriously...what are you really doing, then?

c) how you think this differs from my towngame?

I feel that town Skitter is direct and confrontational and engages with more players. That said we've only actually had one game together so my sample size of one may be inaccurate~

I feel that you are restricting your perspective to only the players who have chosen to interact with you or are the main topics of today (Beef/GiF). These players already had a lot of players posting about/with/to/for them. You haven't expanded your horizons past what everybody else is interested in. But there are four scum players in this game. You seem to only be looking for two. That's an alarm bell.

[Sky_Paladin]

I have a very reaching tinfoil theory of Sky/Mikan blueteam.
How far should I speculate this?

As much as you like, because content > no content, and if there is scum!Mikan I want to know about it.

1. Sky's claiming that RC was obvdoc seemed like being cheeky scum
2. Mikan vs RC was Mikan just being snarky and then now she's back to doing nothing.
3. They both have reasons to kill RC, even though he barely did nothing D1.

but
GiF
475

You have no idea
how much I tried to fix this
by softing doc myself

2 - Is legit. I was happy with her entry and she has improved the TD slot significantly. But then she just vanished. Would like more content/existence please.
3 - What reasons?

[Sky_Paladin]

Pigeon

If that really happened that may be a tell.
In that post SkyPaladin voted for Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia gave a naked vote for RedFlavour in the very next post.

Yes, this is a thing. Not_Mafia from my experience is a fairly passive-aggressive player and doesn't do anything unless forced (prod dodges so far have simply been revoting the same player) or to push through a lynch.
Unfortunately he appears to do this as town as well so I'm struggling to find a way to really sort him. At the moment I have him as town because of his early response this phase to the RF flip being a vote on Beefster being affirmative rather than reactive action.
But I admit it is a flimsy read.

I also have issues with Sesq 554 as it purely shits on effort for no reason except to push for the Skitter wagon to end. But at least he is expressing a position and opinion, even if I hate it.

Sesq

^_~

fite me

[Sky_Paladin]

@Spring

reads on all players of the game please.

Do you have reads Spring? Please share.

[GuyInFreezer]

but
GiF
475

And?

[Iconeum]

sesq why are you holding back on beefster? Especially seeing how you have 0 scumreads. Not much effort from you in hunting at all.
Noting this for D3, after Beef is lynched and flips scum.

I very much wanna see a Beefster lynch today

[Iconeum]

VCs.

(1) Was Not Mafia an RVS wagon?
(2) Was the RedFlavour wagon a counter to Beefster's? (Meanwhile my slot was wagoned too.)
(3) Who was scum here?

Kop

, GuyInFreezer, Not_Mafia, Sesq, Beefster,

Hawk

, Mikan Tsumiki

(2) and (3) looks important, especially because the Beefster-wagon seemed to fade into nothingness.

1) Started in RVS, continued for various reasons because of playstyle I suppose
2)I consider RF wagon a compromise wagon for getting a lynch. There was definitely something there to warrant the lynch
3)In retrospect, I'd say Sesq, Beefster are scum on that wagon. Lynching Beefster for flip would fortify my read, and if that happens I would maybe look at Mikan as well.

[Aneninen]

So, here's the end of my catchup.
Please, don't point it out that I'm vague because I know I've missed a lot of things. Point out things I should pay attention to instead.
Also, during the day I had some time to read the game on my mobile but I was only able to make notes on a piece of paper.

(1) The Day was started with two naked votes, from Not_Mafia and Iconeum. Can you explain those?

(2) Scitter has too many scumreads and too few townreads. (Which one was it? 458? Or also another one?) I can see a paranoid town moveset here. Especially considering it's a multiball.

(3) SkyPaladin must be town. (Example post is 468.) There

are

read progressions, explanations and they look genuine.

(4) GuyInFreezer, why did you say in 470 that you had been inactive? I don't think it was (and is) true.

(5) Beefster's jump on GIF in the next post was terrible.

(6) (I can't find the post I'm answering this to) Pushing a mislynch is not alignemnt indicative in itself. A town could do that because of misreading someone and a scum could do that intentionally. In a multiball, even scum are scumhunting, so it's also possible that a scum is misreading a townie and getting surprised by the flip. Beefster used the same reasoning for conf-biasing. (Reference needed! I only wrote this without anything else on the paper. It may have been against GIF.)

(7) I don't get the whole Skitter-wagon at all.

(8) Springlullaby's 567 was flat-out terrible. Not liking the Mikan-votes? Whut? There was enough reasoning there which shows that he

had actually read

the game. Or is he scum with Beefster, according to

"The speed of the Beefster wagon makes me think the RF lynch wasn't scumpiling"

? Point (B) there is speculative. I don't get (C) at all. The vote is bad, too, he was just throwing it to someone who appeared and appears to be an easy lynch. But about Sesq I'll talk later.
Something else here. He's had three posts so far and I guess he's trying to stay under the radar. Even I have tried harder and I replaced in later than he did!

(9) Back to this, GIF. 571.

"1. Sky_Paladin is not a Red Mafia (Assuming that needle = red and KGB = blue)"

Where did it come from? As for your 578, why are you scumreading SkyPaladin and why do you think he's

blue

scum with Mikan? Why can't they be

red

scum? Why is it important which team a scum belongs to if we manage to lynch

scum

? There hasn't been a scum-flip yet!!!

And now, the recents:

(10) Wait, that's strange. I asked three questions.
The first one was:

"Was Not Mafia an RVS wagon?"

Skitter answered in 583:

"irc, yes. At least, I don't think that any reason was given for it beyond lol!NM.

Iconeum answered in 593:

"Started in RVS, continued for various reasons because of playstyle I suppose"

Even I have found that "various reasons"! So, it's clear that it was NOT an RVS-wagon.

(11) SkyPaladin, 589.

"At the moment I have him as town because of his early response this phase to the RF flip being a vote on Beefster being affirmative rather than reactive action."

Do you mean his early-Day2 vote or something else? Is there any other reason why you townread Not_Mafia?

Readlist comes next.

[GuyInFreezer]

(9) Back to this, GIF. 571. "1. Sky_Paladin is not a Red Mafia (Assuming that needle = red and KGB = blue)" Where did it come from? As for your 578, why are you scumreading SkyPaladin and why do you think he's blue scum with Mikan? Why can't they be red scum? Why is it important which team a scum belongs to if we manage to lynch scum? There hasn't been a scum-flip yet!!!

I did say it was a tinfoil theory.
And the reason for them being blue scum is listed very nicely in those 3 points.

[Aneninen]

Not_Mafia

– As I said, in the past he didn't have jokes like the "scumclaim" here. There were other disturbing bits, too, like his Day2 starter vote. In fact I didn't like his 570 either. I mean, what if he tried to get a joke out of me so that he could launch a wagon on a player who had been wagoned earlier (and without letting me catch up)? Because my memories about him might be wrong as well, he's

lean scum

now.

Sky_Paladin

– Altough I haven't read all his long posts thorougly, the ones I've checked look town with genuine effort.

Probably town

.

Beefster

– There have been plenty of scummy things, see my earlier posts.

Probably scum

.

Sesq

– Plenty of WTF posts. The latest one (586) tells everything. I don't get the part which was about me. He didn't remember his own vote. Aaaand the cherry on the pie is the readlist which is one of the worst ever seen.
STILL, I strongly think he's

probably town

. Not because of his posts are good. They aren't. I think he's a lynchbait where both scumteams could jump on without getting FoS-ed. Also, behind those posts I can't see a scum agenda. They're simply pointless.

Mikan Tsumiki

– I really appreciate your role-playing! And I have an idea which will give you a delightful excitement. We could make you wear a kind of french-maid uniform and tie you to a wheel. Then we'll spin you and start throwing mud at you. Like it? Aaaaaah, isn't it? But wait, I must tell you something else! This is a kind of scum test. Shut your eyes and ask for more, more, more! And in the end we'll check you. If your clothes are still clean, you're town. However, if you've got dirty, you're scum.
BUUUUUUUUUT, my problem is that you're Alisae! I haven't had a game with you yet but I know that you're one of the mods of the Team Mafia. Which means, you're a pretty experienced player! So, you MUST know that all the roleplaying you're doing is making your posts un-readable! Also, your predecessor looked scummy, as far as I can remember. The only caveat I found for my read was that fake-hammer (explained earlier). Put everything together:

Lean scum

.

Iconeum

– This may be biased by his latest, because you had been "under the radar" while I'd been reading the chat. But your answer for my questions were very town. Everything together:

Lean town

.

Skitter

– As I said, I don't understand the scumreads on him. What have I missed? The only thing I found were his answers for my questions. Those prevent me hard-townreading him.

Lean town

.

GuyInFreezer

– Reflecting to your recent post the most important thing which disturbed me has been cleared. Otherwise, I found nothing particularly scummy but I wouldn't say that my read is firm.

Lean town

.

Springlullaby

– I seriously disliked the only contentful post he's made. And I found his predecessor scummy too. Remember eg. that Beefster–Mumble interaction I pointed out in my 581? (Yes, I can tinfoil too, I know, but) he must be scum with either Beefster or Mikan.

Porbably scum

.

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Beefster

Springlullaby would be a better idea but I don't know whether we'd have time for that.

[Viomi]

VOTE COUNT

Beefster

(5) - Not_Mafia, Mikan Tsumiki, Sky_Paladin, Iconeum, Aneninen

(L-1)

Sesq

(2) - springlullaby, Beefster

Mikan Tsumiki

(1) - GuyInFreezer

Not Voting:

skitter30, Sesq


With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Tick tock... (expired on 2018-03-09 00:00:00)

[springlullaby]

A)The speed of the Beefster wagon makes me think the RF lynch wasn't scumpiling;

What connects these?

I read Beefster as townish, and the speed of his wagon today doesn't change my mind about that.
As IIRC Beefster was vocal in the RF lynch, it makes me conclude that the proponents of that lynch was not a big scum manipulation.

GIF why are you voting mikan?