Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[acryon]

I can't believe we're actually taking no lynch seriously

This.

[Mathdino]

SOMEONE UNVOTE OFF THE NO LYNCH WAGON, HAMMERS ARE SCUMCLAIMS

WE ARE NOT DONE WITH TODAY YET, THANK YOU

@Bujaber: The goal of a town protective is to not be super obvious as to who they're protecting, so scum can't predict what they're gonna do.
I'm asking who is less obvious who they would protect, assuming Iconeum is off the table.

[BuJaber]

UNVOTE:

[BuJaber]

Ehhhhh

Gun to my head I'd say you're less predictable.

Difficult question considering we still have no fucking clue how you, mastina, acryon, and Icon actually fit in this game.

[Almost50]

Without elaborating on speculation on reads or night actions, I would like everyone to answer:

Who is more predictable when it comes to their protection night action?
A. Mathdino
B. mastina

Whoever is more predictable should be the one that protects Iconeum. The other does their best elsewhere.

I'd say it's Mathdino, but his claimed choice of protecting Iconeum earlier gives me pause.

Suffice it to say that I would have expected Dino to protect me initially, and I would have never imagined Mastina would pick me for protection.

Also, @Mastina: Check this post for the most recent example of me pegging you (as scum) correctly, although I was wrong about both RC & Anen.

I wanted to respond last night before I went to sleep but the game was still ongoing, so I'm actually lucky to see it's officially over while I'm typing this.

Another incident was in Kuroi's game when we were all scum (all but Chara). However, there wasn't much I could've done about it in thread and I never landed the NK (nor did Peregrine) so I was literally at a disadvantage there.

But sure, you may want to claim you know of all your tells, and -in fact- the weaker one is starting to show in her, but not the "conclusive" one.

As for the lynch, I've decided I'm not voting unless it's to

hammer the No Lynch

. "When in doubt.." ahem.. you know the rest.

[Mathdino]

cough the tournament's not over we officially can't talk about that yet

A50 the idea here is that one of me/mastina will protect iconeum, and one will protect someone else

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

I'm totally glad I made this suggestion.
C&S are scum. If we have a Vig or an SK, shoot them tonight. Trust me SK, you want that slot gone.
Acryon is possible scum.
Mathdino is prob town.

Now, I can't really back up these reads right now, because there is so much content to go through, but I will try to do it as soon as possible!

[BuJaber]

Inferno:

I'm totally glad I made this suggestion.
C&S are scum. If we have a Vig or an SK, shoot them tonight. Trust me SK, you want that slot gone.
Acryon is possible scum.
Mathdino is prob town.

Now, I can't really back up these reads right now, because there is so much content to go through, but I will try to do it as soon as possible!

This is gonna be fun.

Scumreading IB again

[Mathdino]

At least IB and mastina are definitely not scum together, lol.

[InfernoBrafin]

Brafin:

Of course I disagree with my buddy again. I see C&S as town, Acryon as obvScum, and MD as potential scum. Their partner: Either TGP, Beef, or Bujaber, leaning Bu. That neat little gambit that Ico pulled has me thinking he's the scum out of that group.

[Mathdino]

Your read is seriously that acryon-scum gladiated his buddy with the most widely townread player while there was an active wagon on said buddy?

And we're scum with one of the people who's been pushing acryon the hardest?

What?

and wtf gambit did icon pull lol

[Almost50]

Brafin:

Of course I disagree with my buddy again. I see C&S as town, Acryon as obvScum, and MD as potential scum. Their partner: Either TGP, Beef, or Bujaber, leaning Bu. That neat little gambit that Ico pulled has me thinking he's the scum out of that group.

This seems like a total lack of perspective on how to play as scum gladiator! (I would know, because I played as one).

You don't ever EVER gladiate your partner against a global TR (of course, I myself wasn't TRing Icon that hard, but the chances of him winning that gladiate was over 50% by any perspective).

Also, you don't gladiate when your Scum p is being wagoned. Period. Thatb would look suspicious as hell.

Scum Gladiator would be best used when there are THREE competing wagons, and only one (or none) is on Scum. In this case you find a way to oppose the wagon on your partner (while active NOT explicitly TRing them) and pit 2 townies against each other.

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

@BuJaber: Why does this make me scum?

Going to start to explain my reads.
To put it simply, in scum!acyron world, scum!MD just doesn't make sense. Imo, Ico has been townread quite a bit more than MD, so why would scum!acyron put his scumbuddy in this position? I just don't see that happening.
This is not to say that acryon is town. I am having a very hard time justifying town!acryon right now. But scum!MD doesn't make sense in a scum!acryon world.
This combined with what I'm getting from MD's responses, makes me think that there is a fair possibility that he is town.

Acryon's play just does not seem to come from town. It could be possible, but I sincerly doubt it. I'm giving the benefit of doubt right now becasue of C&S, because i can't see them as partners.

But C&S is defintely scum. Here's the first things I notice about the ISO:
C&S gives us a readlist, but there's no specifications on where anyone stands on it. It's all very general.
They take out MD's towncred without actually attacking the reads themselves, hiding behind a "long term interactions" wall.
Here's something interesting: The order of the posts is making me heavily think that this is a case of AbN (Assumption Before Narrative). They form a read and say very little about how they get to those reads, and then begin to force the reads. Seems... informed.
A lot of what C&S walls wit halso seems rather piddly.
Post #547: Is there not such a thing as idiotic scum? Now granted, I don't think my play was that bad, but I know that such a thing exists.
C&S's responses to Ico consistently seem to come from buddying. I don't like that.
This gunsmith guilty thing is really pinging me. Because what kind of setup would have that as a day ability? And we haven't had a N0. So this softclaim seems very weak.
In #866, C&S says he's scumreading Ico. But in post #790, the slot claims that Ico is one of it's strongest townreads? Where did this changes so fast?
And yet he's all for protecting Ico?

One thing is for sure, and that is that C&S+Dino is not a thing, nor will ever be a thing this game.

p-edit: Here's a thought: could Ico+Acryon be a thing?

[Almost50]

p-edit: Here's a thought: could Ico+Acryon be a thing?

Theoretically, yes. However, when Scum activate a gladiator while being close to lynch themselves it's most likely on 2 townies, because whichever of them flips green people are going to automatically suspect the other wasn't lynched because Scum didn't want them to.

[InfernoBrafin]

Brafin:

@Math No, It's not C&S, Acyron, and you, in my opinion. It's Acryon, BU, and you. And Almost50 makes a good point in the next post; if Acryon is scum, you are most likely town. The chances of anyone bussing like that are slim.

That being said, anyone who tried to force a Ico lynch is reading scummy to me. With two reads that were unlikely to be lynched, anyone who does a complete 180 after there is no-lynch possibility is probably not playing in town interest. That includes TGP, who wasn't even reading Ico, and Bu, who not only does a complete 180, but then tries to quick-end d1 with an L-1 no-lynch when he realizes he's not going to get away with it. Super scum-indicative play, imo.

P-edit: which means at this point, we have several pretty much confirmed town and one confirmed scum. That's awsome.

[Almost50]

P-edit: which means at this point, we have several pretty much confirmed town and one confirmed scum. That's awsome.

I have yet to parse the whole situation, because -regardless of acryon's true alignment- the use of the gladiator shot was sub-optimal, but he was literally forced to.

In all honesty I don't even know how to use it as town, as I generally consider it an anti-town ability (but not necessarily a "scum" ability. It's anti-town in the sense of Miller, a bad Vig ..etc.)

However, I know well that I would have tried to form 3 wagons all on Town and then force the gladiator between two of them, and whenever I flip I'm probably guaranteed a mislynch if not two to follow (why would I spare X? Why was Y lynched and not Z??).

So, yes.. if acryon flips Scum both Icon & Math are very likely Town. If he flips Town though it doesn't make either of them look scummier in my view, because Town are uninformed anyway and he didn't have the info to go by... just his own reads.

I agree on BuJaber looking scummier by the minute though, which -unfortunately- is something we cannot deal with today (unless there is a Vig, but then again we need acryon's flip more to sort Dino/Icon, so...).

[Kthxbye]

Without elaborating on speculation on reads or night actions, I would like everyone to answer:

Who is more predictable when it comes to their protection night action?
A. Mathdino
B. mastina

Whoever is more predictable should be the one that protects Iconeum. The other does their best elsewhere.

neither. I don't know either of you or your play styles.

[Kthxbye]

This is such a frustrating game. Effort is NAI, yet it's apparent that's what I'm being nailed on, and I wouldn't have signed up for this game if I knew that would be an issue (it hasn't in my previous mini's).

When I don't have a lot of time for a game, gut is going to play a larger role than other times.

I am Captain Strong, town 1-shot gladiator.

Gladiate: MathDino and Iconeum

Dino because I don't think town!Dino gives into peer pressure and builds this bad case. Iconeum because I think he is scum that got wind of people townreading him and decided he could ride on that, which shows his clear change in play from the early part of the day to the later part.

I have been going over this post in particular and I'm 99.9% sure this is a scum post with the .1% uncertainty being there only because people aren't machines and are flawed.

Here's my thoughts looking at this role/power as if I had it in this game:

If I'm town 1-shot gladiator and under pressure (not L-1 pressure mind you), I might want to avoid my mislynch. This is understandable. The HUGE problem with how this went down however, is in the same post he claims gladiator, he shoots his load WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION. D1 is the day when there is the best town to scum ratio. If I have a provable power like this and feel I need to claim over getting mislynched and not being able to use it, I claim and ASK THE THREAD for a pair that puts us in the best position for information and/or to hit scum. I DO NOT claim and blow my load in the same post. He wasn't in danger of a next post vote to lynch and even if he was, if someone hammered after this claim without proper discussion, they would have just outed themselves as scum anyway. There is absolutely ZERO reason to claim and use the power in the same post AS TOWN.

As Scum however, I'm going to totally do exactly what he did and try and pass it off as town as best as I can. I would solidify a town mislynch over a scum lynch on D1 by doing this. I would also put myself in the best chance to dig myself out of the hole that was dug (whether the hole was my fault or not). As scum, the above post is the ONLY move. If left to the masses, and the masses of town get lucky and pit a scumbuddy against a town or worse, a scum buddy against another scum buddy....yeah...not a great way to start.

It is for this reason I lean that our 2 options for lynch today are both town. It is also for this reason, that acryon should be vig'ed tonight or solidified as tomorrow's lynch. His flip (especially if in fact flips scum), gives SOOOO much information. Not only does it damn near confirm dino and Icon as town, we can also look back and see who was the next in line in acryon somehow got out of the D1 wagon.

tldr; No Lynch is the way to go and acryon should be vig'ed N1 or lynched D2. Day vig'ed D1 would be best if the option is available somewhere.

Side Note: This isn't the even the standard gladiator role mind you. Gladiator is a powerful town role as it pits the town player against 1 other. THIS is even MORE powerful than that as the player gets a get out of lynch free card. It just makes more sense as a scum modified role than a town modified role when balance is concerned. My 2 cents.

[Almost50]

^I'm liking this guy for town

[InfernoBrafin]

Brafin:

Same. Agreed on all points above, Almost50 is probTown.

[Beefster]

Let us ask then.

@MOD

can we go to a no lynch today?

I'll allow it if majority votes for it. However since I am doing this if no votes are cast for either player gladiated and no majority is achieved for no lynch then a coin shall be flipped to determine which is lynched.

No lynch goes to a coin flip I think.

@mod: am I correct in this statement? Or is the no lynch coin flip only if we time out D1?

@mod: can you please answer this?

[Beefster]

@gamma: ^^

[Beefster]

The number of protectives in this game is too damn high.

[Kthxbye]

Let us ask then.

@MOD

can we go to a no lynch today?

I'll allow it if majority votes for it. However since I am doing this if no votes are cast for either player gladiated and no majority is achieved for no lynch then a coin shall be flipped to determine which is lynched.

No lynch goes to a coin flip I think.

@mod: am I correct in this statement? Or is the no lynch coin flip only if we time out D1?

@mod: can you please answer this?

...Dude.....come on man.....learn to English

1: No Lynch is allowed if voted upon to do so
2: If we do not majority vote (just like a majority vote for a lynch) to No Lynch AND the 2 gladiated players have NO VOTES, then the coin flip happens
3: This would mean (from simple deduction) that if we don't majority vote a No Lynch, the player in the gladiator arena with the most votes is lynched

[Kthxbye]

To add to my 664:

Keep in mind that acron likely didn't know voting to No Lynch would be possible. This was something asked and answered in thread. IF he didn't clarify this with the mod in a PM, then the move makes even MORE sense as scum motivated over town motivated. If he was town AND in fact DID clarify with the MOD via PM, then he would have added that information when explaining his role. If he was scum and clarified, he would certainly omit the information. So, either way, SCUM SCUM SCUMITY SCUM.