Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Carrot and Stick]

Entertain this though. Icon claims himself that he has an unimportant role. Can't we afford to lynch him for the confirmation that acryon is scum?

Sure in theory we can afford to lynch him.

We can also afford to NOT lynch him and do the scum's work for them.

Are you really that confident in your acryon read?

Yes.

This move never comes from town.
Never.

There are ten, twenty different ways you can approach it. Different reasons, difference explanations. They all hold true.

Every reason for "acryon could do something else as scum" has multiple flaws in it, among them of course being that the possibility of doing something different doesn't nullify what he actually did and that there are multiple driving factors for why he as scum could would and did choose this course of action.

There's no real reason for "acryon could be town doing this thing".

There's not really much in the way of Iconeum reasons for being scum and yet a BUNDLELOAD of reasons for Iconeum to be town in numerous different ways.

[Carrot and Stick]

If A50 is down to vote NL we do have the votes.

Still.
This is not something scum could have predicted prior to using the gladiate.

They had no way of knowing we'd be raising so many strong points in favor of the no-lynch.

So while it might be possible in THIS GAME.

In GENERAL. The principle behind what I said remains true. Given the battle against mechanics, reads, and theory (as all three exist in force plenty to avert the no-lynch), a no-lynch is next-to-impossible to achieve which is why it'll be a miracle if we manage the feat this game.

Also as mentioned it's quite possible scum didn't know the no-lynch was an option and even might have thought it was explicitly not an option.
Say acryon DID ask the mod about the role.
Say the mod told acryon something like "if nobody voted, a coin would be flipped between the gladiated players" or the like. (You know, basically, acryon having asked a question, but having asked the wrong question which indicated something other than the actuality.)

That would leave a scum-acryon under the false impression that no-lynch wouldn't be possible.

But even if acryon did know it was possible, I still maintain my stance that it makes no difference. A no-lynch is STILL better than a scum lynch on D1, yes? Do you disagree? So using it to save his life is better than not using it no matter what if he's scum.

[Beefster]

If he did know that no lynch is possible why waste his gladiate on 2 people unlikely to get lynched who he in fact did not strongly scumread?

Because it didn't matter what he did--no matter what, it was a scumclaim. No matter what, he wasn't walking out of this. No matter what, he was only buying time. So if escaping death is impossible, instead, maximize utility while alive. The maximum utility is not to gladiate players who could be mislynched without the gladiate.

Maximum utility for a scum gladiator is to gladiate players who can

only

be mislynched WITH the gladiate

.

And that's EXACTLY what he did.

What happened to your Mathdino wagon?

[Beefster]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Momrangal]

Why didn't you make note of reads similarities to me? As town, you would know my scumread on you would be wrong...and you would attempt a reach-out to me. You would try to get me to work with you.

And as scum I'm just gonna keep on letting you push me knowing that eventually you'll get me lynched.

You're not someone a person can work with while you are scum reading them. I am not going to dissuade your read on me knowing that time will do that on its own. There is nothing productive that will come out doing that.

Also, yes I'm leaning towards lynching Ico. His confidence in not getting lynched and the getting all the votes and his reaction to it did not sit well with me.

I also think that, if there was a OMGUS factor of Acrayon scum putting another buddy in the pits with town, the buddy would be Ico.

I mean, at that point you were hammering at Dino and every one knows that you can singlehandedly strongman a lynch. He needed to redirect it and hey, if the buddy did get lynched its instant town cred. I don't think that's the case here and I still hate the fact that I got my vote choices limited and I honestly have zero desire to focus on just two players and leave every one else up in the air.


Also I am not commenting on the similarity because my individual scum-reads aren't working well together and hey if you're wrong about me who knows who else you could be wrong about

[Momrangal]

Pedit: oh hey a hammer

[Mathdino]

I've thought about it, and I think it's mechanically better to do it this way.

I am bodyguarding Iconeum tonight.

mastina can go elsewhere.

I'm not wading through the past few pages to argue with mastina. I [*vomits*] trust (AGHHH) Not_Mafia on this acryon read. Don't lynch him tomorrow IMO.

I was gonna say that by PoE I was starting to get seriously paranoid of Iconeum but if we're no lynching anyway, fuck it, we'll do this.

Your lynchpool shakes out to be (removing Kthx)
{Carrot, IB, A50, Marangal}
If you lynch outside of this group I'm going to be extremely sad in the dead thread, and may start repeatedly naked quoting posts that I think are obvtown.

[Kthxbye]

(That having been said: kthx's 942 is much, much, much better. It's not outside of his scumrange unfortunately but it's enough to give hesitance to the scumread there if nothing else.)

time out. who is this? how do you know me? I've been out the game for over a year...

[Iconeum]

I consider no lynch the best option here. Or at least, the one with the smallest amount of damage done to town.
Seeing how I am promised to be protected, I could be a good target for someone to give me stuff.

[Mathdino]

Wait, I read 942 in full and none of it seems particularly supertown. I'm pretty sure mastina is just irrationally calling it town because he agrees with her.

Like I fundamentally disagree with the use of a wall to make the simple premise of "acryon did an anti-town thing and therefore is scum, because I would do this anti-town thing as scum". Like, if I were scum in acryon's position, I would 100% poll the town on that choice, and just pick either 2 townies that town wanted to lynch, or 2 lurkers (and lurkerlynches happen a lot less than mastina makes it out to be, given that she was trying to strongarm a lynch on the most active player in the game).

Kthx back in the lynchpool.

I agree that Iconeum would be good for things like masonisers, vendors, etc.

[BuJaber]

The thing with mastina's case on acryon is it at least does have a full explanation on why the lynch went the way it did, why the gladiate was used in such a way, why the 2 targets were chosen. It also shows a scum doing the best possible thing he could for his team given the situation. I'm glad you explained it. It doesn't change the situation much no lynch was gonna happen but I feel better about it.

The only plausible explanation of why town!acryon did it is that he got frustrated, impulsively used his ability, chose icon because of a weakish suspicion and chose MD for spite/revenge/OMGUS.

[BuJaber]

(The 2nd explanation being much less likely than the first)

[TheGoldenParadox]

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[acryon]

I considered trying to begin to reply to you C&S, but I don't think a drawn-out defense is at all fruitful for town.

AKA, "I can't respond to the valid points she raised against me because they were in fact valid".

Surprisingly I'm not the only one to question the fruitfulness of a back and forth walling with you. I think you've derailed the town enough with it already.

This shouldn't be ignored just because someone doesn't like my play, which I think is probably fair (like I said, first time with this role and first time in a role madness game). Like I said, even if someone thinks I have colossally screwed up, making another objectively bad decision (NL) doesn't fix that.

We don't dislike your play or think you screwed up.
We fucking think you're scum.

I think that you think that. I'm not sure the others do.

So did acryon, who easily could've gladiators 2 town lurkers

Why gladiate players who can be mislynched without the gladiate?

Answer me that question.

Why would you, if you were scum, gladiate players who you know can be lynched without using the gladiate on them?

That is wasting the gladiate. Because players who can be mislynched without the gladiate...can be mislynched without using the gladiate. And thus should be left for later.

Also, point of fact; BuJaber commented on how the lurkers likely contained scum and he is not likely wrong there. If the lurkers contain scum, then the pool of "town lurkers" would in fact be rather small, so.

There's just a shitload of reasons why acryon has reason to do what he did as scum, and no reason to do anything else as scum.

Except that the ability of town to alternatively vote for a NL makes most of this invalid. And the number of people supporting a NL

in the face of the theory and possible scumreads you mentioned

is evidence that the rest of your argument along this line is nonsense.

Actually I'd like acryon, Icon, and Mastina also to say who they'd lynch day 2. Doesn't look like all 4 are gonna live to see D2.

Surprising that you need to ask. acryon if he lives to see D2, Momra otherwise.

Your game would be improved by 20% if you just stopped scumreading Iconeum.

Only 20?

I can't believe we're actually taking no lynch seriously

I can't believe we're actually taking a guaranteed mislynch seriously.

I think we need to talk about what you think the word 'guaranteed' means.

To add to my 664: Keep in mind that acron likely didn't know voting to No Lynch would be possible. This was something asked and answered in thread. IF he didn't clarify this with the mod in a PM, then the move makes even MORE sense as scum motivated over town motivated. If he was town AND in fact DID clarify with the MOD via PM, then he would have added that information when explaining his role. If he was scum and clarified, he would certainly omit the information. So, either way, SCUM SCUM SCUMITY SCUM.

This is both a valid point and something off of my own role PM I can vouch for--role PMs this game are incredibly ambiguous if mine is anything to go by. I know what my role does, but the specifics of the role are not detailed in the PM.

Surely C&S is better than to support this wild speculation. Especially considering the fact that I have never played as a gladiator before, you don't think I would make clear how it works?

If A50 is down to vote NL we do have the votes.

Still.
This is not something scum could have predicted prior to using the gladiate.

They had no way of knowing we'd be raising so many strong points in favor of the no-lynch.

So while it might be possible in THIS GAME.

In GENERAL. The principle behind what I said remains true. Given the battle against mechanics, reads, and theory (as all three exist in force plenty to avert the no-lynch), a no-lynch is next-to-impossible to achieve which is why it'll be a miracle if we manage the feat this game.

Also as mentioned it's quite possible scum didn't know the no-lynch was an option and even might have thought it was explicitly not an option.
Say acryon DID ask the mod about the role.
Say the mod told acryon something like "if nobody voted, a coin would be flipped between the gladiated players" or the like. (You know, basically, acryon having asked a question, but having asked the wrong question which indicated something other than the actuality.)

That would leave a scum-acryon under the false impression that no-lynch wouldn't be possible.

But even if acryon did know it was possible, I still maintain my stance that it makes no difference. A no-lynch is STILL better than a scum lynch on D1, yes? Do you disagree? So using it to save his life is better than not using it no matter what if he's scum.

If you recognize that this line of thinking is flawed, why are you entertaining it?

[TheGoldenParadox]

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