Mini 805 - Betrayal House - over!


Forum rules
User avatar
Herodotus
Herodotus
Black Ops
User avatar
User avatar
Herodotus
Black Ops
Black Ops
Posts: 2758
Joined: December 14, 2008

Post Post #100 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:26 am

Post by Herodotus »

@Slicey: Are you accusing Kast of posting but not taking a stance on anything, or enabling a scumbuddy to do so?

@Banana: Would there be any need to pressure someone if they are not at least a little scummy?

@Sniper: I hope you aren't expecting some "Due to that topic, the obvscum are ____." I asked when I did for 3 reasons:
1. Someone might have come up with a good reason for us to reveal names right away. I wasn't certain how I felt at first.
2. Considering it could be more effective than a random wagon at creating groupings.
3. In some other games (both Polygamist Mafia games) people started revealing how they were paired before a consensus was reached on whether it was a good idea. So I wanted people to not start doing so until we decided whether it was advantageous.
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #101 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:52 am

Post by farside22 »

vote count:


PsychoSniper (3) Oman, AshMC1984, claus
banana 563 (2) Grandi, Herodotus
Grandi (1) banana 563
Slicey (2) Kast, Namttam
skitzer (1) PsychoSniper
Kast (1) Slicey

Not voting:


Seraphim
skitzer

with 12 players it takes 7 to lynch
day 1 deadline is June 21st , 9:00am PST
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
AshMC1984
AshMC1984
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
AshMC1984
Goon
Goon
Posts: 276
Joined: April 4, 2009

Post Post #102 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:11 pm

Post by AshMC1984 »

Grandi, Seraphim, skitzer: Thoughts?
Win / Loss record
Town: 2 / 0
Scum: 1 / 1
User avatar
Kast
Kast
tl;dr
User avatar
User avatar
Kast
tl;dr
tl;dr
Posts: 2663
Joined: January 12, 2009

Post Post #103 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:30 pm

Post by Kast »

Slicey wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading the QT in Majora's Mask Mafia
FYI, just because you see one scum player suggesting something in a single scum QT in a single game, does not mean that all instances of that behavior are scummy. In this case, I have not been engaging in the behavior you describe, so your source example is pretty irrelevant. I can see your mistake as a newbie mistake, I can also see it as scum attempting to jump for a pretty craplogic case.
Slicey wrote:and I remember someone telling their scummates to do setup speculation because it makes it look like they're contributing, even when they're not.
Thematic discussion is not equivalent to setup discussion. I have posted some information that is purely thematic and I have tied some thematic discussion with potential setup and game mechanics, but primarily I have argued that we don't know what the setup is and should not make hasty assumptions about it.

Further, in your example, the scum tells his buddies to engage in setup speculation to appear to be contributing without actually contributing. If I limited myself to purely setup discussion, you might have a valid case. If you are arguing that, then please show examples.
Slicey wrote:Thematic discussion on D1 is bad for the town, as is name claiming, because it gives scum a chance to post but not take a stance on anything.
Are you accusing me of posting without taking stances on anything? I think it's fair to say I've taken more of a stance than most if not all other players and have touched on practically every issue that has been discussed.

-Mass name claiming on D1 is not inherently bad. There are many games where it is neutral, and some where it can be beneficial to the town. I don't believe that this is either one of those games.

-Thematic discussion on D1 is not bad; it has helped us arrive at the conclusion that mass name claiming is probably not a good course of action for D1. It also has not prevented us from scum hunting.
Slicey's real reason for voting wrote:
Vote: Kast
for
[OMGUS]
.
@I'll post some thoughts on PS and the rest tomorrow. Good to see things have been moving.
User avatar
Grandi
Grandi
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Grandi
Goon
Goon
Posts: 190
Joined: January 18, 2009

Post Post #104 (ISO) » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:41 pm

Post by Grandi »

/prodded

Was planning to make make a post friday before taking g/Italy for a weekend, but didn't get to it.

Bigger post coming up
User avatar
Oman
Oman
NK Immune Miller Vig
User avatar
User avatar
Oman
NK Immune Miller Vig
NK Immune Miller Vig
Posts: 7014
Joined: June 19, 2007

Post Post #105 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:22 am

Post by Oman »

These last two and next four days are going to be hectic for me.

Will do what i can though.
It's unfortunate that good oral sex excuses bad chemistry. - Korts
User avatar
banana 563
banana 563
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
banana 563
Goon
Goon
Posts: 308
Joined: December 3, 2007
Location: 1 Relocation: 0
Contact:

Post Post #106 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:06 am

Post by banana 563 »

Herodotus wrote:@Banana: Would there be any need to pressure someone if they are not at least a little scummy?
That's the general feeling I got in my last game. I think someone said that a good way to find out who the mafia were was to pressure each person in turn, and see how they react. Do you think that would work though?
"I wont be posting for 2 days becuase i have a spelling bee" - Muh316
User avatar
Herodotus
Herodotus
Black Ops
User avatar
User avatar
Herodotus
Black Ops
Black Ops
Posts: 2758
Joined: December 14, 2008

Post Post #107 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:02 am

Post by Herodotus »

@Kast: I don't dispute any of what you said, but I'm not sure your defensive approach will accomplish much, i.e. working out Slicey's alignment.
banana 563 wrote:
Herodotus wrote:@Banana: Would there be any need to pressure someone if they are not at least a little scummy?
That's the general feeling I got in my last game. I think someone said that a good way to find out who the mafia were was to pressure each person in turn, and see how they react. Do you think that would work though?
In retrospect, my question was a matter of playstyle, though I was trying to get you to open up. That is one approach, and there must be some people who feel it works. Do you?
How do you feel about your current vote?
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #108 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:40 pm

Post by farside22 »

I do consider the weekends a 24 hour period but some people are getting close to being prodded.
:?
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
Namttam
Namttam
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Namttam
Goon
Goon
Posts: 183
Joined: March 5, 2009
Location: Storrs, CT, USA
Contact:

Post Post #109 (ISO) » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:44 pm

Post by Namttam »

*hic*@banana 563- Y-y-y-you're asking alot of q-q-q-questions, but *hic* without t-t-t-taking any real st-st-stances. What d-d-d-do you think of the w-w-wagon on *hic* psycho? Do you f-f-f-find something *hic* else m-m-m-more suspicious?
[i]~THe ONe ANd ONly~[/i]
User avatar
PsychoSniper
PsychoSniper
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
PsychoSniper
Goon
Goon
Posts: 359
Joined: August 30, 2008

Post Post #110 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:56 am

Post by PsychoSniper »

Apparently, my last vote wasn't registered, probably because i forgot to unvote. To do this properly:

unvote, Vote: Claus

Herodotus wrote:
@Sniper: I hope you aren't expecting some "Due to that topic, the obvscum are ____." I asked when I did for 3 reasons:
1. Someone might have come up with a good reason for us to reveal names right away. I wasn't certain how I felt at first.
2. Considering it could be more effective than a random wagon at creating groupings.
3. In some other games (both Polygamist Mafia games) people started revealing how they were paired before a consensus was reached on whether it was a good idea. So I wanted people to not start doing so until we decided whether it was advantageous.
Nah, I'm not expecting you to provide obvscum list, just your motive behind raising the issue this early. As to your reasons.....first, I would think that if anyone thought they might have a good reason for immediate reveal, they would have brought it up anyway, with or without your question. Your third reason is also a little curious (IMO), because if anything, I think drawing attention to the issue might be more likely to
prompt
an early claim like the one you mention. Some people might consider that pairing mechanism you described to be a good reason for claim, and as a result bring it up prematurely.

At any rate, no damage of this nature has been done, but I'm a little wary of your bringing up the nameclaim issue early.

@banana 563: why do you need others to tell you whether to vote? It's something you need to form your own opinion about. Sounds to me like you're wantig something to share the responsibility when/if you finally vote.....
User avatar
PsychoSniper
PsychoSniper
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
PsychoSniper
Goon
Goon
Posts: 359
Joined: August 30, 2008

Post Post #111 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:58 am

Post by PsychoSniper »

PsychoSniper wrote:@banana 563: why do you need others to tell you whether to vote? It's something you need to form your own opinion about. Sounds to me like you're wanting
something
to share the responsibility when/if you finally vote.....
EBWOP: I meant
someone
User avatar
banana 563
banana 563
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
banana 563
Goon
Goon
Posts: 308
Joined: December 3, 2007
Location: 1 Relocation: 0
Contact:

Post Post #112 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:23 am

Post by banana 563 »

Herodotus wrote:In retrospect, my question was a matter of playstyle, though I was trying to get you to open up. That is one approach, and there must be some people who feel it works. Do you?
How do you feel about your current vote?
I don't mind two votes if that's less than what psycho got. Two votes is L-5, so nothing to worry about there. I don't think that strategy would work.
Namttam wrote:*hic*@banana 563- Y-y-y-you're asking alot of q-q-q-questions, but *hic* without t-t-t-taking any real st-st-stances. What d-d-d-do you think of the w-w-wagon on *hic* psycho? Do you f-f-f-find something *hic* else m-m-m-more suspicious?
:roll: I can't take this seriously...
Psycho wrote:@banana 563: why do you need others to tell you whether to vote? It's something you need to form your own opinion about. Sounds to me like you're wantig something to share the responsibility when/if you finally vote.....
I wasn't asking others to tell me who to vote for, just making a point that it would be stupid for me to bandwagon someone just for the sake of bandwagoning.

Banana
"I wont be posting for 2 days becuase i have a spelling bee" - Muh316
User avatar
Slicey
Slicey
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Slicey
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1589
Joined: September 11, 2008

Post Post #113 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:05 am

Post by Slicey »

Kast wrote:
Slicey wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading the QT in Majora's Mask Mafia
FYI, just because you see one scum player suggesting something in a single scum QT in a single game, does not mean that all instances of that behavior are scummy. In this case, I have not been engaging in the behavior you describe, so your source example is pretty irrelevant. I can see your mistake as a newbie mistake, I can also see it as scum attempting to jump for a pretty craplogic case.

That was just one example. You're not necessarily doing it, but promoting it, saying that there's nothing wrong with setup/thematic speculation (which kinda tie hand in hand). Doing that kind of discussion helps the scum in that they can post without giving many opinions.

Slicey wrote:and I remember someone telling their scummates to do setup speculation because it makes it look like they're contributing, even when they're not.
Thematic discussion is not equivalent to setup discussion. I have posted some information that is purely thematic and I have tied some thematic discussion with potential setup and game mechanics, but primarily I have argued that we don't know what the setup is and should not make hasty assumptions about it.

Further, in your example, the scum tells his buddies to engage in setup speculation to appear to be contributing without actually contributing. If I limited myself to purely setup discussion, you might have a valid case. If you are arguing that, then please show examples.

Again, you yourself are not only discussing the setup, but you're saying it's not necessarily a bad thing. It is on D1, when we have absolutely no information to go on

Slicey wrote:Thematic discussion on D1 is bad for the town, as is name claiming, because it gives scum a chance to post but not take a stance on anything.
Are you accusing me of posting without taking stances on anything? I think it's fair to say I've taken more of a stance than most if not all other players and have touched on practically every issue that has been discussed.

I'm accusing you of saying that thematic and setup discussion on D1 is good. It isn't. You're trying to say it is, but it isn't. It does very little for the town, and it lets scum participate without giving opinions on anything.


-Mass name claiming on D1 is not inherently bad. There are many games where it is neutral, and some where it can be beneficial to the town. I don't believe that this is either one of those games.

Mass name claiming on D1 is almost never good. Especially in this game. Yes, I was originally for it, but I thought it over some more and realized it could only help scum and there's a very small chance of it helping the town.


-Thematic discussion on D1 is not bad; it has helped us arrive at the conclusion that mass name claiming is probably not a good course of action for D1. It also has not prevented us from scum hunting.

See above

Slicey's real reason for voting wrote:
Vote: Kast
for
[OMGUS]
.
Isn't OMGUS if I didn't realize you were voting for me. >________>


@I'll post some thoughts on PS and the rest tomorrow. Good to see things have been moving.
Response in bold.

My original vote on him was not very strong, I admit, but his reaction is telling, IMHO. I'm going to keep my vote on him for the time being.

Also, someone please explain to me why Claus and Oman want a bandwagon on PS because I'm not seeing it.
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #114 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:32 am

Post by farside22 »

prodding the following players:
Claus, Seraphim and skitzer
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
Kast
Kast
tl;dr
User avatar
User avatar
Kast
tl;dr
tl;dr
Posts: 2663
Joined: January 12, 2009

Post Post #115 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:59 am

Post by Kast »

@PS-
-I think there was a difference in tone between your "parroting" post and other players who have posted agreement. However, I see a change between your initial post and later posts.

Post 42 sounded like you were espousing my ideas but doing so in a way that you could quickly drop them and point at me as the source if the ideas weren't well received by the town.

Your later posts you act as though they were your completely original ideas. You've taken ownership of them (which is good to commit yourself), however, by that point most of the town had already chimed in similar thoughts (which makes the commitment to an already accepted PoV less meaningful).

-I do get an impression that you are thinking about things though, and I don't think there is a particularly strong case against you.

-I agree with the viewpoint that it is not scummy to be unable to form strong suspicions of players early in the game (and often it is impossible for townies to have those).

@Pressure and Wagonning-
As others have stated, it is a commonly used strategy to create wagons even when not very suspicious of the player who the wagon is targetting. I don't subscribe to that playstyle; I think it is unnecessary and allows scum to easily excuse their votes on townies without committing themselves to positions.

Also, the way different players react to pressure tells more about their personal play styles than their alignments. I don't object to the PS wagon, although I don't think his behavior has been significantly more scummy or anti-town than Slicey. I don't think he has reacted in any way that indicates his alignment.

Ultimately, we will need to have a solid wagon to successfully lynch someone. At that point, it should be on the player who you are most suspicious of if possible.

@Slicey-
How is my reaction telling?

You posted a craplogic argument and aren't addressing my points.

-To be clear:
You claim I am suspicious because I am promoting behavior that scum would tend to engage in.
You are admitting that I am not actually engaging in that behavior.

Your argument needs to address several points:
-Explain how thematic discussion is "bad" for the town. I have shown examples of how it has helped already, and it doesn't take a genius to think of more examples. You have done nothing to show that it hurts us.
--The closest you have come is to claim that scum who participate in thematic discussion might be able to appear to be contributing without actually doing so. If we assume your fears are valid, then we have a new criteria for catching scum; we should allow thematic discussion and watch for players who engage solely in that.

-You also fallaciously argue that simply because a behavior is beneficial to scum, it is automatically bad for town. If we extend your craplogic, then the proposition that it is good for scum to post and vote in a logical manner so they blend with the town would mean that posting and voting in a logical manner is bad and we should lynch anyone who engages in that behavior.

-You are attempting to limit/prevent discussion. This is extremely anti-town.

-Provide some backup for your assertion that mass name claiming on D1 is almost never good; provide some reasoning for why that is especially true for this game. So far, the only reasons I've seen for why it would be bad in this game rely on thematic discussion.
User avatar
skitzer
skitzer
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
skitzer
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2097
Joined: September 1, 2007

Post Post #116 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:15 am

Post by skitzer »

I'm finding it hard to get into this game, but I'll post what thoughts I can squeeze out of my head.

Namttam's post restriction should not bother us, and we should let that be known. Namtam should still post as normal, no matter how annyong it is.

I'm in the Garden, and It's dark, so I can't get out until someone brings a light source.
Seraphim
Seraphim
Jack of All Trades
Seraphim
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6165
Joined: September 20, 2008

Post Post #117 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:21 am

Post by Seraphim »

Responding to prod until I have time to post.
User avatar
AshMC1984
AshMC1984
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
AshMC1984
Goon
Goon
Posts: 276
Joined: April 4, 2009

Post Post #118 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:54 pm

Post by AshMC1984 »

PsychoSniper wrote:@banana 563: why do you need others to tell you whether to vote? It's something you need to form your own opinion about. Sounds to me like you're wantig something to share the responsibility when/if you finally vote.....
QFT. I know banana has somewhat answered this but I think PS' point is a good one. I was getting this impression myself:
banana 563 wrote:
Claus wrote:Learn to love bandwagons.
Would you still love me if I joined it?
banana 563 wrote:Why do we need to bandwagon psycho? Is it because he is scummy, or because we need to pressure him to see how he reacts?
banana 563 wrote:
Herodotus wrote:@Banana: Would there be any need to pressure someone if they are not at least a little scummy?
That's the general feeling I got in my last game. I think someone said that a good way to find out who the mafia were was to pressure each person in turn, and see how they react. Do you think that would work though?
The first post could be fishing for a reaction masked as a joke.

The second post - you remove the threat from the Psycho-wagon if you come out and say it's merely a pressure wagon.

Third post - extending from the second - well if it
was
going to work it certainly won't now! Forewarned is forearmed.
Win / Loss record
Town: 2 / 0
Scum: 1 / 1
User avatar
Herodotus
Herodotus
Black Ops
User avatar
User avatar
Herodotus
Black Ops
Black Ops
Posts: 2758
Joined: December 14, 2008

Post Post #119 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:33 pm

Post by Herodotus »

@Slicey: Can you speculate on possible scumbuddies for Kast?

@Banana: I was referring to the vote you placed, and are holding, on Grandi.
banana 563 wrote:
Namttam wrote:*hic*@banana 563- Y-y-y-you're asking alot of q-q-q-questions, but *hic* without t-t-t-taking any real st-st-stances. What d-d-d-do you think of the w-w-wagon on *hic* psycho? Do you f-f-f-find something *hic* else m-m-m-more suspicious?
:roll: I can't take this seriously...
Huh?
User avatar
Namttam
Namttam
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Namttam
Goon
Goon
Posts: 183
Joined: March 5, 2009
Location: Storrs, CT, USA
Contact:

Post Post #120 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:21 pm

Post by Namttam »

@Banana-W-w-w-what Herodotus *hic* said. D-d-d-did you miss that I-I-I-I have *hic* a voting r-r-r-restriction for the d-d-d-day? C-c-c-can you ignore *hic* the stuttering and an-an-answer my *hic* questions?
[i]~THe ONe ANd ONly~[/i]
User avatar
Kast
Kast
tl;dr
User avatar
User avatar
Kast
tl;dr
tl;dr
Posts: 2663
Joined: January 12, 2009

Post Post #121 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:55 pm

Post by Kast »

@Banana-
Sometimes moderators create post restrictions as part of a role, or some mechanism within the game.

Sometimes the player who is post restricted will be modkilled for breaking the restriction. Sometimes they may have some lesser penalty (ie. loss of vote, loss of night action, ...). Sometimes they get a power-up for following the post restriction.

In any event, Namttam has claimed to have such a restriction. If you are seriously having trouble understanding Namttam's posts, then say so. If not, then just ignore the restriction for now.
Show
T: 9/6.5/0
M: 8/2/1
O: 0/3.5/0

V/LA Pretty much all Weekends and Holidays
User avatar
Claus
Claus
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Claus
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1734
Joined: June 1, 2007
Location: Tsukuba
Contact:

Post Post #122 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:07 pm

Post by Claus »

I've been prodded. Sorry, it was a fun and extended weekend :-)

Expect a more detailed post from me in a few hours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVmAG0RXmo
User avatar
Claus
Claus
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Claus
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1734
Joined: June 1, 2007
Location: Tsukuba
Contact:

Post Post #123 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:41 pm

Post by Claus »

Yay! OMGUS from PS! Let me tear it down.
PsychoSniper wrote: Did I accuse you of being scummy because you parroted me? I didn't. (...) but apparently, according what you posted above, you
do
consider it scummy, so why are you doing it yourself?
Neither did I. I accused you of being scummy for completely different reasons -- reasons which I did spell out in the post. I do however, find it scummy when you attack me (call my post parroting) for something that you just admitted doing. Double standards and all that jazz :-D

Also, the way you overreact to an accusation that I did not make is scummy. I caught scum once on this tell ;-)
Except that, when he said "I'll say it later", you just said "ah, ok". Weak.
And again, that's wrong because....?
Because scum wants to find easy cases. They make weak attacks and see if other people will follow with them. Then back down of those attacks that don't work out immediately. This is called "Staying on the wall".
- There are lurkers/inactive guys that have yet to voice their opinion on his question. If Hero's answer was an excuse not to answer, getting everyone to speak up takes away that excuse.
Funny that you base your entire strategy on a post by someone else. So if someone makes a "bad" answer to his question, or doesn't answer - and you end up lynching them -- hey! It wasn't your question to begin with, it was Herotodus! :-)

You are some clever scum.

why would you expect me to vote on Hero for not answering my questions, when you're not doing it yourself?
That one is easy - You're not even trying. Answer: Because I'm voting you, who I find much scummier.

Claus wrote: An when I ask you your opinions on the players, after three pages, you have none. None? Really? Are you playing the game? Or are you just waiting for a townie wagon to form so you can find an excuse to jump in?
Funny, the only one who's jumped on a convenient town wagon so far is you, how I love the irony. :)
The wagon on you is not a townie wagon. Big difference ;-)
There were only 3 things of note in that 3 pages:
Really? I see more, but then again, I'm town and I'm trying to look for scum. You are just trying to find a convenient excuse to attack someone. Let me fix that. You are just trying to save your ass, because I'm not going to let go off you so easily.
Vote: Claus
I love being OMGUS'ed in such a pompous manner - it is a sign that I'm caught scum :-)

No really, you big post and vote on me is nothing more than "Your vote sucks. Waaa! Waaa!".

How about we play a game? You tell me (us) who else you find scummy in this thread. Pretend you're looking for "my partners". I know it will be hard to you to talk about the other players, because you'll have to be careful not to out your partners, but the town would appreciate the effort.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVmAG0RXmo
User avatar
Claus
Claus
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Claus
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1734
Joined: June 1, 2007
Location: Tsukuba
Contact:

Post Post #124 (ISO) » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:11 pm

Post by Claus »

Multi-part post - find your underlined name below and read it :-)


@Kast
Kast wrote: @Claus on thematic discussion-
-Is it accurate to say you oppose thematic discussion (...) because you think it distracts from much more useful discussion (ie. more traditional scumhunting)?
Yup. You can see the recent "Nasubi Mafia" as an example of a game where thematic discussion completely destroyed the ability of town to scumhunt. That was not my only experience with this, and I feel pretty strongly about this subject.

That said, it seems that this game does not suffer of this problem so seriously at the moment, so how about we agree to disagree on this point for now and move on?

*************

I like your Slicey vote. I agree that his vote on you was pretty non-sensical, and slicey has climbed quite a few places on my scum-o-meter after that post.

*************

I don't like, however, your post 115. You explain too much about your game theory, but talk too little about this game. I would appreciate if you posted more of your opinions on the other players, specially those who are not under the spotlight.

My personal opinion on aggressive styles is that scum are much less likely than townies to spearhead an attack on someone - because they know that their arguments will be greatly scrutinized once their target flips. Scum are much more likely to follow than to lead.

==============

@Banana


Like others have said already - you have asked plenty of questions on what you should do, but you have given very little from yourself.

Specially, I would like to see you answer Nattams question. I will rephrase it to you:

What do you think about the PS wagon? Do you find anything else more suspicious?

If I told you that I mind control the other two players on the wagon, and would move the votes to whoever you find most suspicious, who would you choose?

==============

@Slicey
- I don't like Slicey vote or post. I think he is misrepresenting Kast with this "trying to promote setup speculation". Oh, I want a bandwagon on PS because I find
him scummy. Could you be more specific about what you don't like about the bandwagon?

What do you think about Oman and Herotodus?

==============

I Like Nattam's 95. I'm glad to see that he is not using his PR as an excuse.

===============

@Oman.


I know you will be busy man. But use that for our advantage. If you don't have time to post, give us a scum/town list.

===============

Herotodus seems Okay to me at the moment.

================

@Skitzer, Grandi and Seraph.


Here is a simple summary of the game to help you contribute

The main suspects right now are:
Psycho - being pushed by me
Slicey - being pushed by Kast
Oman - being pushed by AshMC1984

What do you think about these 3 cases?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVmAG0RXmo
Locked