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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:25 pm

Post by Doombunny9 »

Well, everyones commented on kodamma so far except boxman.

boxman-What do you think about kodammas defence? Do you beleive it? Do you stiil FoS him for it?
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:34 pm

Post by Boxman »

Hm. Like his defense so far. I'll remove my vote for now.
unvote: Kodamma

I've still got an
FoS: Kodamma
though. No sense in dispelling all of my suspicion right off the bat.

Now, I'm going to reread to find some scummy people.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:13 pm

Post by Tjoe Min Ja »

Faraday wrote:What about his reaction made him seem town? You think b/c he felt under threat he's more likely to be town? If that's the case then I flat out disagree, as it's a null tell. I actually thought he
over-reacted a bit
to a random bandwagon.
which part of his post u said overreacted?

Shadow Knight wrote:After his response, I'm willing to back off a bit for now, but I'll still be watching him.
His response seems to come from a townie mindset,
which is really all I've got to go one at this point in the game. He's gotten himself back to even footing, but I'm not prepared to label him a townie yet. He's correct about his vote sparking discussion (and about it putting him in the spotlight).
He gets bonus points for ending the RVS
(which I've never been a fan of, but that just means I like him as a player). I like that we now have interactions to analyze for later in the game as well. Overall, I'd say I'm neutral on kodamma for now. Further posts from him will hopefull change that.
who else you think is "scum" or "town"?
bonus? is this mean town read or scum read?
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:30 pm

Post by MordyS »

Kodamma wrote:I'm not saying that Faraday is "pure", merely that his intentions thus far seem pure. He does not seem to be promoting an agenda in any specific direction, merely is helping others along by providing a valid counterpoint.
This isn't necessarily a good thing, Kodamma. It's a common scum tactic to not try to promote any agenda, try not to ruffle any feathers (as Faraday himself pointed out), and hope to slide under anyone's suspicion. I'd rather see someone with a pushy agenda who lays it all out there.
Faraday wrote:Mordy I have a hard time seeing much to cause you to unvote in Kodamma's last post, what in particular satisfied you enough to unvote.
Only because you're reading too much into my original case. He was the scummiest of any so far, but his unvote was super scummy and I buy his explanation for unvoting. It seems reasonable and logical that his explanation of the narrative is accurate.
Faraday wrote:I don't like this at all. Seems like an excuse to go lurker hunting (not in and of itself a bad thing fwiw) and excusing scummy behaviour if people are active. I realise that's probably an oversimplification of what you're trying to say, but still this rubs me the wrong way.
I don't want to speak for someone else, but "low content posting" is not the same thing as lurking at all. They are similar tactics (in that they both try to produce very little noise), but not the same thing. And I don't see him pushing for lurker hunting. I will say, though, that his comment - as pragmatic as it might be - didn't strike me as particularly pro-Town. It sounded defeatist and seemed to be pushing for lax scum-hunting on the first day (which is definitely anti-town). As I understand it, Town's job is to push hard to find scum on the first day, and then lynch whoever strikes them as the likeliest scum (even if the information behind that lynch will be weaker than the information given on Day Two). You can maximize your odds, even on Day One. I don't think anyone should be throwing in the towel early.

Also, this:
Kodamma wrote:It has also been my experience that most scum spend Day 1 hanging back and making low content posts to let the town deal with themselves.
In the middle of a long post, struck me as a tad opportunistic. As though he were saying, "Scum tend to hang back and make short posts on Day 1... but check out my long post. Clearly I'm not scum." Not a huge tell, but it caught my attention.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:56 pm

Post by Doombunny9 »

mordy wrote:Only because you're reading too much into my original case. He was the scummiest of any so far, but his unvote was super scummy and I buy his explanation for unvoting. It seems reasonable and logical that his explanation of the narrative is accurate.
But you still FoS him, right?
Mordy wrote:This isn't necessarily a good thing, Kodamma. It's a common scum tactic to not try to promote any agenda, try not to ruffle any feathers (as Faraday himself pointed out), and hope to slide under anyone's suspicion. I'd rather see someone with a pushy agenda who lays it all out there.
Do you FoS faraday for this. My read on faraday is that she is a helpful townie providing much insight into this situation. Do I think she's town? So far yes. Will I continue prodding and questioning faraday? Of course.
kodamma wrote:My gut in all of this though is that in my experience, Day 1 is usually spent with a lot of active town, tripping over their own discussions and quicly laid suspicions, resulting in us lynching one of our own and then re-evaluating on Day 2 as the scum have then killed whichever one of us during Day 1 was having the most productive discussions. It has also been my experience that most scum spend Day 1 hanging back and making low content posts to let the town deal with themselves.
Do you see anyone doing this and find them scummy for it?

Sorry I wasn't able to post much now but I'm just about to go to sleep. Bye for now :D
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:02 pm

Post by RossWilliam »

I agree with most things being said right now about Kodamma, I can't formulate a concisive post right now so I'll just nod my head at things Faraday said, especially about Kodamma trying to please everyone. Town isn't afraid to piss people off, because a town player doesn't care if people are getting along or not, they only want to lynch scum. Town doesn't have to be friends with eachother, just work together. Amateur scum somehow gets this idea in its head that if they buddy up with everybody and work the charm, nobody is going to lynch them

Heads up scum. Being buddy-buddy with the town doesn't mean a thing. We'll lynch you anyway. So Kodamma and anybody else, you might as well stop playing the social game now because there is no social game to be played.

I'm going to go ahead and vote Kodamma...The straw thats breaking my camel's back right now is his overly flowery typing. I feel like he's trying to look like he's saying alot without really saying anything at all...it might be nothing, but it's making me uncomfortable enough to go ahead and vote. I feel like he's hiding something.

Vote: Kodamma
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:41 pm

Post by rolandgarros »

Faraday 97 wrote:You seem to be tring too hard to appease everyone, like you don't want to ruffle anyones feathers.
Actually Faraday does bring up a good point here, his post seems too benign and conciliatory, coupled with the unvote. However, this could possibly genuinely be a mistake on his part. As to Kodamma's point about him feeling that Boxman was threatened, I'd agree on the part that Boxman seemed very confused and worried, and I myself felt that, but that was due to my relative inexperience at the time.

With that said, Faraday is right that the chances of Boxman getting accidentally lynched are low; I just recently realized that the amount to lynch here is 7 as opposed to 4 (in newbie games). Nonetheless, I feel inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in his bandwagon vote/unvote for the time being.
ShadowKnight 99 wrote:His response seems to come from a townie mindset
Could you just clarify what this means, I'm not exactly too sure what a townie mindset refers to and how Kodamma reflects it.
Ross wrote:Town isn't afraid to piss people off, because a town player doesn't care if people are getting along or not, they only want to lynch scum. Town doesn't have to be friends with eachother, just work together. Amateur scum somehow gets this idea in its head that if they buddy up with everybody and work the charm, nobody is going to lynch them
Not necessarily true, although it is a good point to keep in mind. However, why are you saying this? It feels a bit off to me for some reason, especially your direct address to scum. I can't off the top of my head give a perfect explanation for why it seems off, but it does catch my eye. I'd FOS, but I'd like to hear more from Ross on this. As for FOS'ing Kodamma, I'm still undecided whether his unvote and reaction was a townie mistake or a scum cover up. I'll hopefully decide soon though, after sifting through some more content.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:06 pm

Post by MordyS »

It actually caught my eye too. I think it's because something about proffering advice to scum rubs me the wrong way. I don't think that was the point (it seemed like more of a rhetorical flourish to make a more passionate argument), but it was still there.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:48 pm

Post by Faraday »

Tjoe Min Ja wrote:
Faraday wrote:What about his reaction made him seem town? You think b/c he felt under threat he's more likely to be town? If that's the case then I flat out disagree, as it's a null tell. I actually thought he
over-reacted a bit
to a random bandwagon.
which part of his post u said overreacted?
Not really sure I understand this. I think the whole 'wtf' response from him was a tad of an over-reaction. Not even sure if that's what you're asking though.

MordyS wrote: This isn't necessarily a good thing, Kodamma. It's a common scum tactic to not try to promote any agenda, try not to ruffle any feathers (as Faraday himself pointed out), and hope to slide under anyone's suspicion. I'd rather see someone with a pushy agenda who lays it all out there.
True enough, although I would disagree that I'm doing anything like that i.e. trying not to ruffle feathers/slide by.


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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:56 pm

Post by Faraday »

MOD EDIT: Your Tags are fixed.
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:09 pm

Post by afatchic »

Vote Count #4!!


Kodamma-(2)-Faraday, RossWilliam

MordyS-(1)-Starbuck
Shadow Knight-(1)-Far_Cry

Not Voting-(8)-rolandgarros, Shadow Knight, don_johnson, Doombunny9, Tjoe Min Ja, Kodamma, MordyS, Boxman

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.


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I will be checking everyone's activity and issuing prods in the morning. I'm too tired to do it right now.
Anything else you need... Just bold it in thread or send me a PM.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:41 pm

Post by Faraday »

@ Mordy: That's probably fair enough re: the Low content vs lurkers thing, but I still don't really like it. I see your point though.
RossWilliam wrote: Heads up scum. Being buddy-buddy with the town doesn't mean a thing. We'll lynch you anyway. So Kodamma and anybody else, you might as well stop playing the social game now because there is no social game to be played.
God I don't like this
at all
. It seems completely off, and even forced.


As to Kodamma's point about him feeling that Boxman was threatened, I'd agree on the part that Boxman seemed very confused and worried, and I myself felt that, but that was due to my relative inexperience at the time.
Yeh this while probably correct, tells us nothing about his alignment.

Too many people not voting.

I've no clue who Shadow Knight's top suspect is for example, he's been quite enough unless prodded with questions, and seems to be quite...idk passive, although perhaps it's just a playstyle.

Could the people not voting explain why, it seems like there's no reason not to have your vote on someone.

Starbuck you still have your vote on MordyS. Who would you say is your second suspect at this point?

And don is the only one who hasn't posted recently afaik. Not sure if he's within prod range or anything though, as we're moving at quite a fast pace.

Still very happy w/ my vote though, ftr.[/mech]
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:12 am

Post by don_johnson »

sorry, been busy with school. i need to reread a couple pages here. try to get something up later tonight or early tomorrow.
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:16 am

Post by Shadow Knight »

When I say townie mindset, I mean that it seems like something I would post as town without sounding too... contrived is the only word I can think of to use here right now.

Bonus points don't mean town or scum (or I would have called them townie points for scum points). I just meant that I like him as a player more because he ended the RVS quickly. I meant it when I said as far as town/scum goes, my reading on him is neutral.

While townies aren't afraid to piss people off, good townies realize that while the spotlight is on them, it isn't on scum. I generally try to keep my head down during the first day unless I spot a blatant scumtell.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:50 am

Post by RossWilliam »

Oh, MordyS, you know what? I totally didn't think of it as advice to scum, and now that you've pointed it out I'm like, Ooooh....yeah. My bad. But it's not the kind of advice that will actually get him anywhere. I was just trying to make my argument more powerful, since it was the only new basis for my vote, so oh well...I guess I should stick to just writing normally, so I don't come of as forced.

But anyway, Kodamma is afraid to get people upset at him...It's like he either thinks town will vote him to lynch if he pisses them off, or than town will protect him from lynch if he gets along with us.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:29 am

Post by Doombunny9 »

faraday wrote: Could the people not voting explain why, it seems like there's no reason not to have your vote on someone.
You're right, I don't really have a reason why I'm not voting. I guess it's because I don't know who to vote for. There are a lot of good lynch candidates. I'm going to do a read through and vote later if you don't mind. Right now I'm going to adress some other things.
SK wrote:While townies aren't afraid to piss people off, good townies realize that while the spotlight is on them, it isn't on scum. I generally try to keep my head down during the first day unless I spot a blatant scumtell.
You're right about this. While the towns main role is to lynch scum they also have another objective: To not get lynched as to improve the chances of lynching scum.

Finally, I would like to hear more from Starbuck. She hasn't posted much since that discussion with Mordy. Starbuck- Do you still think Mordy is scummy? Do you think anyone else is scummier now?
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:09 pm

Post by rolandgarros »

Faraday wrote:Yeh this while probably correct, tells us nothing about his alignment.
That's true, I'm just trying to decide whether his actions were genuinely scummy or a townie mistake. I guess the problem with this though is that it's really hard to distinguish between the two, I'm really 50/50 on it, hence the no vote on Kodamma for now.

With regards to voting in general, I personally see my vote as being final, but nobody has 100% seemed scummy to me just yet. However,
RossWilliams wrote: Oh, MordyS, you know what? I totally didn't think of it as advice to scum, and now that you've pointed it out I'm like, Ooooh....yeah. My bad. But it's not the kind of advice that will actually get him anywhere. I was just trying to make my argument more powerful, since it was the only new basis for my vote, so oh well...I guess I should stick to just writing normally, so I don't come of as forced.
This seems like a really awkward and very, well, "forced" response to what people pointed out. Not really liking it, but I don't know if it's so much of a scumtell; however, his explanation for why he said it is pretty much a restatement of what Mordy said, albeit in other terms. Either Mordy was dead on, or Ross is forcing an explanation.
Ross wrote: But anyway, Kodamma is afraid to get people upset at him...It's like he either thinks town will vote him to lynch if he pisses them off, or than town will protect him from lynch if he gets along with us.
I don't like this either really, not only is it a restatement of what he already said/what others had already said, it's also stating the obvious. Not to mention, he's almost assuming that Kodamma possesses this particular mindset, as if he knows what Kodamma is thinking.

I don't know, it just seems very off to me, and it seems like Ross is pretty much trying to go with the flow of the town right now by repeating what people said without bringing new insight, and that is off for pretty obvious reasons.

With that said, I'm going to have to
FOS: RossWilliams
for now.
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:08 am

Post by Tjoe Min Ja »

RossWilliam wrote:
I agree with most things being said right now about Kodamma
, I can't formulate a concisive post right now so
I'll just nod my head at things Faraday said
, especially about Kodamma trying to please everyone. Town isn't afraid to piss people off, because a town player doesn't care if people are getting along or not, they only want to lynch scum. Town doesn't have to be friends with eachother, just work together. Amateur scum somehow gets this idea in its head that if they buddy up with everybody and work the charm, nobody is going to lynch them

Heads up scum. Being buddy-buddy with the town doesn't mean a thing. We'll lynch you anyway. So Kodamma and anybody else, you might as well stop playing the social game now because there is no social game to be played.

I'm going to go ahead and vote Kodamma...The straw thats breaking my camel's back right now is his overly flowery typing. I feel like he's trying to look like he's saying alot without really saying anything at all...it might be nothing, but it's making me uncomfortable enough to go ahead and vote. I feel like he's hiding something.

Vote: Kodamma
FOS : Ross


1. which part you disagree?
2. trying to please everyone isn't that scummy. especially when he is being voted. town and scum may act the same.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:24 am

Post by RossWilliam »

Uh, no Tjoe, trying to please everybody
IS
scummy,
especially
when votes are cast. It's like a last ditch effort to get people to unvote because your being nice to them.

And I'm not trying to pretend that I can read Kodamma's mind, which is why I'm not voting him for just buddying up to everybody alone.

And it's hard to defend the validity of something to someone who's only complaint is that it's awkward. "forced" is the word of the week apparently, but if my posts are consistantly that way, it's just a player trait...If I was doing something out of the ordinary it would be weird....Do a meta on me if your feeling diehard, I get that awkward reaction alot in these games.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:45 am

Post by Doombunny9 »

[quote"Ross"]Uh, no Tjoe, trying to please everybody IS scummy, especially when votes are cast. It's like a last ditch effort to get people to unvote because your being nice to them.[/quote]

Actually this isn't always true. If someone is being nice to everyone to get people to like them and not vote them, then that is hugly scummy. However, if someone is just a nice person and trying to please people is just part of their nature then it is not scummy. As with Kodamma I can't tell if it is his nature or if he's scummy however at this point I'm leaning towards scummy.

As for my read through and how I can't decide who I'm going to vote. I read through last night and I'm finding myself pretty evenly split between Ross and kodamma. So right now I am going to
Vote: kodamma
However, this will likely change soon as the day progresses.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:52 am

Post by rolandgarros »

Ross wrote:Uh, no Tjoe, trying to please everybody IS scummy, especially when votes are cast. It's like a last ditch effort to get people to unvote because your being nice to them.
See db's last post, as well as Shadow's post 113. It's not necessarily scummy. Therefore, it's either or, however:
Ross wrote: And I'm not trying to pretend that I can read Kodamma's mind, which is why I'm not voting him for just buddying up to everybody alone.
Judging by your posts, the reasons you're voting him are 1) Because he's trying to buddy up to everyone and 2) Because Faraday said so. Umm?
Ross wrote:And it's hard to defend the validity of something to someone who's only complaint is that it's awkward. "forced" is the word of the week apparently, but if my posts are consistantly that way, it's just a player trait...
Fair enough, but you also forgot this:
Roland wrote:I don't like this either really, not only is it a restatement of what he already said/what others had already said, it's also stating the obvious.
As for other reads, I'm keeping track of other players as we progress.

Faraday, for one, seems largely pro town due to his active scum hunting efforts. To consider all possibilities, however, there may be a chance that he is scum acting overly pro-townie (which is why I don't agree with Ross's argument that scum act one way and town act another way), but there really is no way to determine this until later on in the game when more things have happened. For now, I see him as pro-town.

As for db, I'm getting a fairly neutral read from him so far in the game; his posts have been insightful and he's been contributing to discussion in hunting scum.

Shadow has only posted a few times, if I recall correctly, but again I'm getting a neutral read. Nothing stands out too much, but he has been contributing when he has posted.

I'll get further reads hopefully later on in the day or tomorrow, I have a social to go to in about half an hour.
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:41 pm

Post by Doombunny9 »

Shadow-If I recall correctly you haven't stated an FoS or voted yet (although please correct me if I'm wrong) Who do you FoS and why?

Also, Starbuck is reaching her 72 hour period and I would love to hear from her soon (I would rather give her a day or soon before prodding to give her some breathing room first. I don't know whats going on in her life so I'll wait) although if anyone else wants her to be prodded feel free to ask the mod.

And last but not least boxman
boxman wrote:Hm. Like his defense so far. I'll remove my vote for now. unvote: Kodamma
I've still got an FoS: Kodamma though. No sense in dispelling all of my suspicion right off the bat.

Now, I'm going to reread to find some scummy people.
This was the last post he gave. I want to hear what he got from rereading if any as well.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:11 pm

Post by Tjoe Min Ja »

you still haven't answer my first question....look's like you are just following people and trying to build bandwagon
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RossWilliam
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:30 pm

Post by RossWilliam »

I didn't answer your first question Tjoe because it makes no sense.
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Doombunny9
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:28 pm

Post by Doombunny9 »

I may know whatTjoe was trying to say so I'll try to explain.
Ross wrote:I agree with most things being said right now about Kodamma
Now I think Tjoe was wondering what you disagree about what people are saying against kodamma. Meaning a lot of people are talking about kodamma. You agree with most. What are the things you don't agree with. I hope I've explained it well and you can answer it soon.
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