Mini 878: Nouns Mafia - Da game is ovah!


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:45 am

Post by MacavityLock »

Netopalis wrote:Macavity: It's not dangerously close to a lynch, but it's more than I'd like on such a weak tell.
Why?


Vote Count V

Boxman:
4 (mathcam, SensFan, Seol, StrangerCoug)
Sens Fan:
3 (Konowa, elvis_knits, Netopalis)
Parhelic
: 1 (Iecerint)
Netopalis:
1 (Boxman)

Not Voting:
(MacavityLock, Parhelic, Percy)

Deadline:
Friday November 27th, 12:00 PM EST
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:53 am

Post by Netopalis »

Because 2 is enough for pressure, and I think we all agree that we don't want to lynch him solely on such a weak tell.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:11 am

Post by SensFan »

Neto:

*how do you suggest we get 'stronger' tells, if we sit around without putting more than 2 votes on anyone?
*how can you claim 2 votes is "enough for pressure", when it obviously isn't, since he hasn't responded yet?
*why do you keep trying to imply that the votes on Box are for pressure, when I don't think any of us voting him have said anything like that?
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:15 am

Post by Netopalis »

1) I'm suggesting waiting on him to respond and seeing what arises out of that.
2) He might not have responded because he might not have been online.
3) I was assuming as much because I feel that it makes absolutely no sense to lynch him on such a simple comment.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:21 am

Post by SensFan »

4) Why do you keep assuming that anyone wants to lynch someone right now?
5) Why is 3 votes too many? It's less than halfway to a lynch.
6) What do you feel is gained or lost by me not explaining my reasoning for voting him?
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:23 am

Post by Iecerint »

Suffice it to say that Boxman has been online.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:30 am

Post by Netopalis »

4) Because the votes are votes to lynch. The value of a bandwagon for non-pressure and non-lynch reasons is negligible.
5) Because there's not enough evidence to lynch, but I'm scared that we're pushing down that route.
6) We lose valuable insight into your play in this game. Your lack of reasoning fails to give us more information.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:36 am

Post by Iecerint »

Unvote; Vote: Netopalis
. Neto's claims are pretty out-there IMO. I think a town player would just admit he'd made a mistake at this point.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:40 am

Post by Netopalis »

Wait a minute. What on earth is the point of bandwagoning if you're not going to lynch or put on pressure? What on earth is the point of any of this? Boxman's one-line post doesn't merit a lynch, and while the pressure idea may have some merit, several people on the bandwagon have discounted the idea. Therefore, I am scummy for trying to stop a purposeless lynch/bandwagon? This does not follow.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:46 am

Post by Iecerint »

Trying to stop a lynch is not necessarily scummy; however, the bizarre logic that you are using to stop this one it is. Boxman hasn't responded because he hasn't been online? Bandwagons aren't useful for pressure? It doesn't make any sense. I find it scummy that you're unwilling to make concessions even when it's clear you may have erred. You're sticking to your version of the facts without regard to information from other players.
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:28 am

Post by Netopalis »

If they said that the bandwagon was for pressure, I'd be OK with it. However, as Sensfan just said...
sensfan wrote: *why do you keep trying to imply that the votes on Box are for pressure, when I don't think any of us voting him have said anything like that?
I also think that 3 votes is enough to expect him to show up.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:38 am

Post by Iecerint »

Now you've just contradicted yourself again. Earlier, you said that votes are not useful except to indicate willingness to lynch. Now you're saying that you'd only be okay with the bandwagon if it was for pressure. Does not compute.

Moreover, in spite of saying that you like bandwagons that are genuine, you're implicitly attacking SF for implying that his vote WAS genuine?

And on top of that, what are you trying to prove with the 3 votes business? If 3 votes don't do it, what would YOU have players do? Ignore the suspicious player? That's the clearest alternative to keeping up pressure as far as I can tell. If people used your algorithm, any player under suspicion could evade it by lurking.

If someone understands what Neto is arguing and the logic doesn't seem really self-defeating to them, please speak up. Maybe he's just not expressing himself very well.
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:50 am

Post by StrangerCoug »

Netopalis wrote:5) Because there's not enough evidence to lynch, but I'm scared that we're pushing down that route.
I thought it had been established that Boxman's not very likely to be lynched on just opting to sit out, as much as I like the tell. You're panicking over an L-4 for little reason.

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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:51 am

Post by Seol »

Netopalis wrote:I also think that 3 votes is enough to expect him to show up.
Then why hasn't he? He has been active over the last couple of days.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:33 am

Post by SensFan »

See, Netopalis? This is how we get 'stronger' tells.

Unvote, Vote: Netopalis


I'm still looking at you, Boxman, and still expect you to come back and contribute, or this vote heads back your way.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:43 am

Post by Netopalis »

Icerint: I was explaining why I felt that the bandwagon was genuine, not attacking Sensfan. In my mind, this whole conversation is going like this:

Me: Uh...I sure hope you're not serious about this lynch....
SF: I am!
Me: Well, if you're serious about your vote and it's not just for pressure, I'm not sure it's really a good idea...
Iec: Why are you assuming his vote is serious and not for pressure?
Me: Well, he said so...
Iec: And now you're attacking him AND contradicting yourself!

Yeah. Perhaps a bit skewed, but I hope it illustrates my point of view. It appears that there are a number of different reasons for people being on this bandwagon, and that by asking about it I've inadvertently turned all of the players against me. I apologize. Honestly, I really hate D1...it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

If you're serious about not lynching boxman until we hear back from him, then I guess I'll stop pestering people about it. I still don't get what the point is, though, if it's not for pressure and it's not intended to lynch. Nobody's really made that clear to me.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:02 am

Post by Iecerint »

You may have conflated me and SC a little bit there. I see what you mean, though.

What do you think should be done about Boxman? (Be clear. Don't just say what we "shouldn't" do.) Why do you think he's ignored this game while being active elsewhere?
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:31 am

Post by Netopalis »

Well, I know that when I'm attacked for little things, I often tend to put games aside. I really hate these little arguments...I know it exacerbates matters, but that's my first reaction. That doesn't mean that pressure should be relieved, it just means that we should ask for a prod...and if he never responds, then replace. He shouldn't be just ignored, but he shouldn't be lynched either - instead, we should simply wait and see what he has to say, then dissect that statement.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:38 am

Post by Iecerint »

Do you think that lurking to replacement upon coming under suspicion is null with respect to alignment?
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:52 am

Post by Netopalis »

No...I think it points in favor of scum. That being said, he hasn't lurked THAT long yet.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:10 pm

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I wasn't asking specifically about Boxman; I was asking about the general case. Your post 117 implies that you often ignore games in which you are under suspicion, which may imply that you think lurking to replacement is null. It now seems like you're claiming it's null for you, but is scummy in the general case. Is that accurate?
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:27 pm

Post by Netopalis »

I said put it off, I never said lurk to replacement. I always end up posting...I just put it aside while I work on other stuff, then come back to it after I've had time to mull it over. I have yet to be replaced in a game of Mafia.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:26 pm

Post by Iecerint »

That's nice, but it is only tangentially related to what I asked you. <_<
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:32 pm

Post by Netopalis »

Not entirely so. I was saying that not responding immediately to pressure is a null tell. Not responding for a great deal of time/until replacement is more of a scum tell, unless the player shows a site-wide pattern of inactivity.
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:46 pm

Post by Iecerint »

OK, so how long does Boxman have before he crosses a line in the sand and enters scumville? :?
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