Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[CallMeLiam]

Day I, Vote Count III

DavidParker - 2 -

RedCoyote, julienvonwolfe

Lowell - 1 -

PoisonIvy

PoisonIvy - 9 -

DavidParker, XScorpion, bvoigt, LynchMePls, Artem, gonnano, EGL, ThAdmiral, Beasts of the Sea

bvoigt - 1 -

pappums rat

Furcolow - 3 -

LlamaFluff, Scott Brosius, smargaret

LynchMePls - 1 -

Sathoris

julienvonwolfe - 1 -

Stephoscope

Ghostwriter - 1 -

Lowell

Beasts of the Sea - 1 -

Furcolow

Not Voting - 4 -

themanhimself, nachomma8, Ghostwriter, jmj3000

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

[Sathoris]

Unvote

random day one vote.

I read through some games and knew what to expect but you guys do vote for someone quickly. I'll probably have to get used to the long day phase and no lynch lock.

I'm surpised so many of you piled on PI just because of her initial response to the questions. You only know your role and the town's win condition but you don't know what other roles are distributed to townies. Perhaps you did just skim through the role name and assumed a certain setup.

Frankly I find the question more scumworthy than the answer. The mafia have a basic knowledge of their roles but can't know what roles are available to the townies. Besides one suspicious answer and that person get's cornered.

Vote: Furcolow

[Sathoris]

Perhaps

PoisonIvy

did just skim through the role name and assumed a certain setup.

edit: important typo

[LlamaFluff]

Well, I assumed they have daytalk. I forgot I even said that, but I won't backtrack on it. All I was saying was that I figured I would wait on some coaching, regardless of whether or not it came in-thread or out, if I was scum.

I didn't do that.

So how many games have you played where scum had daytalk? I have played for close to three years and can probably count the ones I have on one hand, most of those were nightless/deep south games. Have you played in any large themes before?

Also you are saying that you would have not even posted anything until someone told you to as scum?

[Sathoris]

Any groups with the ability to talk at night may for so for another 24 hours.[/b][/size]

Mafia could daytalk for 24 hours into day one it seems.

[ThAdmiral]

Other things:
1. My spidey sense says Furculow is town.
2. Ghost Writer's reference to his wiki in post #27 is a lie. He says he's undefeated as scum, but he's clearly not.
3. smargaret is giving me town pings but that's pretty slim right now. Also, JMJ's comment "no hard feelings" earlier struck me as suspicious as well.

1. Yep.
2. Good pick up.
3. I'm actually getting scum tingles from smargret.

[gonnano]

UNVOTE:

I'm having second thoughts about the PI wagon -- it's taken off a little too quickly for my tastes. I still think PI seems scummy, but in the past my scum reads have been pretty terrible, so I'm going to play this one by the numbers.

Furcolow is steadily becoming more and more scummy to me: the "meta" appraisal of PI, the whole RQS deal... and this.

I am going to put my vote on the first alphabetically to have not posted.

What?! It's WAY too early in the game to say who's a lurker and who just had a busy couple of days IRL. You're just trying to substitute a policy vote for actual scumhunting.

[LlamaFluff]

Any groups with the ability to talk at night may for so for another 24 hours.[/b][/size]

Mafia could daytalk for 24 hours into day one it seems.

Actually this makes Fur amazingly likely to be town since scum would have known this, and probably pointed it out instead of saying "I just assumed scum have (full) daytalk"

unvote
Vote jmj

[bvoigt]

Hm, the problem with the ivy wagon is that as scum her PM should have her against peaceful players, not against Americans or soviets so her assuming that the set-up is Americans vs soviets makes me honestly think she just didn't read it all that closely

Look at the rules post, though:

[4] A possible mafia win condition is: "You win when only Soviet players remain alive or nothing can prevent this"

Well I think that was an example, the actual win cons (unless there are various non-conflicting ones which doesn't make a lot of sense) are about peace and war, not nationality.

Really? Is that what the actual scum win conditions are?

This is a good catch.

I'm having second thoughts about the PI wagon -- it's taken off a little too quickly for my tastes. I still think PI seems scummy, but in the past my scum reads have been pretty terrible, so I'm going to play this one by the numbers.

I'm not buying this. Your reads have been bad in the past, but that doesn't mean they'll be wrong this time.

[jmj3000]

Any groups with the ability to talk at night may for so for another 24 hours.[/b][/size]

Mafia could daytalk for 24 hours into day one it seems.

Actually this makes Fur amazingly likely to be town since scum would have known this, and probably pointed it out instead of saying "I just assumed scum have (full) daytalk"

unvote
Vote jmj

Why the vote on me Llama?

[Beasts of the Sea]

FoS: Beasts of the Sea

for the terrible reasons used to jump on the PoisonIvy wagon.

Are you worried about PoisonIvy getting closer to the lynch threshold or something? I am voting the person you are voting (with more substantive reasons than you), yet you don't even suggest that I might be bussing. Do you not think that PoisonIvy is scummy for outlining reasons to lynch Furcolow regardless of his alignment, doesn't vote Furcolow, was waiting for Lowell to assess Lowell's alignment (based on Lowell always being scum), and then expresses interest in sliding onto the Furcolow wagon? Or do you think your single reason of PoisonIvy subtly planting WIFOM for any investigative roles is enough to warrant her lynch by itself?

[ThAdmiral]

Any groups with the ability to talk at night may for so for another 24 hours.[/b][/size]

Mafia could daytalk for 24 hours into day one it seems.

Woah, missed this.

This makes furculow look bad. Very bad.

vote: furculow

[LlamaFluff]

Any groups with the ability to talk at night may for so for another 24 hours.[/b][/size]

Mafia could daytalk for 24 hours into day one it seems.

Woah, missed this.

This makes furculow look bad. Very bad.

vote: furculow

As I said, just the opposite actually. Furcolow responded like he expected scum to be able to daytalk the entire game, the mod post suggests that scum actually dont have daychat, which is not what furcolow said.

[ThAdmiral]

As I said, just the opposite actually. Furcolow responded like he expected scum to be able to daytalk the entire game, the mod post suggests that scum actually dont have daychat, which is not what furcolow said.

Furc said that by talking before being coached by daytalking scum he was proved as town. Given that scum could daytalk, even just temporarily, it seems like something scum would be more likely to come up with than town that knew nothing about daytalking.

It makes a lot more sense for him to say that if he was scum and truly believed he could "prove" himself town by doing it.

[pappums rat]

unvote
vote furcolow

i agree that his 3rd question would be more informative to scum than town, and his comment about day talking scum is bad.

[LlamaFluff]

As I said, just the opposite actually. Furcolow responded like he expected scum to be able to daytalk the entire game, the mod post suggests that scum actually dont have daychat, which is not what furcolow said.

Furc said that by talking before being coached by daytalking scum he was proved as town. Given that scum could daytalk, even just temporarily, it seems like something scum would be more likely to come up with than town that knew nothing about daytalking.

It makes a lot more sense for him to say that if he was scum and truly believed he could "prove" himself town by doing it.

I guess I can see it, just not what I would really expect as a scum response in that situation.

[LlamaFluff]

Why the vote on me Llama?

Now, I don't like how DavidParker and PoisonIvy both have started speculating about the set-up on page 1. Also, they both seem to be ignoring the glaringly obvious possible mafia win-con CML posted. However, that isn't enough for me to vote them yet.

Vote: furcolow

no hard feelings about Harry Potter Mafia, right?

As pointed out already, early calling out of DP and PI, yet you never really put pressure on anyone. You more then anything else just note it as something possibly scummy and moving on. This doesnt get picked up later on. What ever happened to those trains of thoughts?

Yeah, I have suspicions, but since its still fairly early, I'm not going to put a serious vote down just yet. Not everyone has posted yet either. I'm going to bed now, and will read everything when I wake up.

First what are your suspicions? Again you are avoiding giving anything in the form of suspicion, almost pawning it off on people not having posted yet. Why are a few people not having checked in something mean that you shouldnt post a case on anyone, or at least concise reads?

[RedCoyote]

I don't see how RQS is detrimental if people answer casually, and don't give away their roles. Is it my fault for asking questions, and for trying to steer away from the senseless RVS? It has already forced a few bandwagons as opposed to random voting/FoS, although that is still somewhat going on.

This is how I felt about the question, but Llama had a completely different perspective on it which I can just as easily see.

vote: pi

I feel like you almost slip this in rather than voting Llama, which you spent a bigger chunk of your post talking about.

---

My PM doesn't explicitly state whether or not there are town aligned players of different nationalities, either. Moreover, I don't see why other role PMs should be any different since the rules regarding nationality and alignment are in the first post, or so, and they are clearly different concepts - something David doesn't seem to quite grasp, by his use of 'probably'. My feeling then, is that David is bullshitting in grand style.

You put this much better than I could, imo. I agree 100%.

---

I am getting annoyed that you are basically OMGUSing what I said because I attacked you with conviction. Other people are apparently not scummy because they sounded very unsure of themselves, while when I say "fur is scum" you say im scum for it. That is what is not making sense, and where the comment came from.

I really like this point, and it seems accurate when I think about it.

I'm finding myself enjoying reading this game more than posting in it at the moment, heh.

---

I disagree quite strongly. I have dp marked as town.

I don't like how you just throw this in there without elaborating on it. Why is he town to you?

Come on, seriously.

I don't like this either. If this is scoffing, it's certainly a confusing way to do it. What's wrong with margaret's comment? Bad post, Admiral.

---

I'm having second thoughts about the PI wagon -- it's taken off a little too quickly for my tastes. I still think PI seems scummy, but in the past my scum reads have been pretty terrible, so I'm going to play this one by the numbers.

Furcolow is steadily becoming more and more scummy to me: the "meta" appraisal of PI, the whole RQS deal... and this.

This is how I feel about the situation. I'm not ready to write off Ivy, but I really have no issue with either Llama or margaret's attacks on Fur. I feel like Fur can't get his footing in the argument and is coming across as sloppy.

[Furcolow]

Well, I assumed they have daytalk. I forgot I even said that, but I won't backtrack on it. All I was saying was that I figured I would wait on some coaching, regardless of whether or not it came in-thread or out, if I was scum.

I didn't do that.

So how many games have you played where scum had daytalk? I have played for close to three years and can probably count the ones I have on one hand, most of those were nightless/deep south games. Have you played in any large themes before?

Also you are saying that you would have not even posted anything until someone told you to as scum?

the last game I was scum, I had daytalk, so I'm used to that.
I did not know they didn't have daytalk.
Sorry if my comments were skewed to be viewed as trying to organize amongst scum, that is not the case.

[Furcolow]

UNVOTE:

I'm having second thoughts about the PI wagon -- it's taken off a little too quickly for my tastes. I still think PI seems scummy, but in the past my scum reads have been pretty terrible, so I'm going to play this one by the numbers.

Furcolow is steadily becoming more and more scummy to me: the "meta" appraisal of PI, the whole RQS deal... and this.

I am going to put my vote on the first alphabetically to have not posted.

What?! It's WAY too early in the game to say who's a lurker and who just had a busy couple of days IRL. You're just trying to substitute a policy vote for actual scumhunting.

but me policy voting is actually the most pro-town thing i can do because i am not that good at this game

[Furcolow]

I didn't realize they had talking 24 hrs in
it doesn't matter, that was not my intention whatsoever, nor was rolefishing
i was trying to break the ice

unvote: beasts of the sea

nothing has really struck me as scummy other than not hearing from poison ivy

i hate to have been competing wagons with her D1 two times in a row, perhaps i should self vote

i am considering voting myself because it is detrimental to the town, but so is voting for me. I'm just going to have to trust in my own ability to scumhunt and pull off a win for the town.

vote: poisonivy

for the reason of survival.

[Furcolow]

you know, instead of voting me, you guys could ask me things

[julienvonwolfe]

@Julien: I don't quite see what you are arguing.. I attacked someone for saying that "town=us, soviet=scum" more or less, and i responded by saying there is most likely town allied players of both nationalities, i can't confirm this, but the mod game info suggests there is, as does my PM to a certain extent imply certain things without explicity stating them (hence I use probably). If I didn't believe what you are saying I'm "bullshitting in grand style", then why would I attack someone using this as my argument?? This is the central idea built behind my vote on poisonivy, and you are claiming I wasn't convincing enough because I used "probably".. If i didn't believe it why on earth would I have voted/pushed poison ivy's wagon?

Okay, thanks for clarifying your position... I didn't read properly and when EGL's post took you out of context, I was taken in. I agree that you have a good understanding of the rules and that I was going down the wrong track. I'm pleased actually, since I found EGL's post scummy - hence my post about bussing - thanks to the FOS and the strained and silly point about 'subliminal messaging.' I don't think it's subliminal if, as EGL even says, it's explicitly stated. (RedCoyote, thanks, but I have to backtrack. Bugger)

I have to confess that I don't really get the PoisonIvy wagon. Sure there's some uselessness, but I don't see anything deserving of a nine vote wagon. Furcolow strikes me as town, as well, probably a bit desperate. I don't see scum saying 'for reasons of survival', since scum in general are playing for survival and are trying very hard not to say so - or at least, that's my experience. I can see how this is a WIFOM argument and that, since humanity has infinite ability to surprise, I might be wrong... but that's my feeling for now.

So, given my uneasiness with EGL's FOS against you (David) and given the PoisonIvy wagoning, I'm going to go with EGL. Note that while I'm leaning town for Fur, I'm still 50/50 on PI based on the lack of content.

UNVOTE: DavidParker
VOTE: EGL

Ninja: Okay, Fur, why are you so scared?

[julienvonwolfe]

EBWOP: Now that I count, that seems to be six votes on Fur. So my question is silly. My new one: is wagoning another person for survival really a good tactic in your mind?

[Furcolow]

Well, I've seen her as town, and this is not her as town
I do not want to have to claim, but my survival is good for the town.