Mini 174- Townie Mafia- Game Over!


Forum rules
User avatar
Seol
Seol
Logical Rampage
User avatar
User avatar
Seol
Logical Rampage
Logical Rampage
Posts: 1563
Joined: November 26, 2004
Location: In the wrong

Post Post #100 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:30 am

Post by Seol »

Mr Stoofer wrote:Brushopper: I for one am inclined to believe you. If you have a useful pro-town ability, I would rather you used it tonight and then just used your 3 posts more wisely tomorrow.
For now, I'd agree with Stoofer - we know you have (claimed) a posting restriction, so that won't be a reason to suspect you in itself tomorrow, so just think about how powerful your ability is and whether you're better off using it and being careful with your posts or freeing yourself up to get more involved in the discussion.
Unvote: brushhopper
.

That's not to say I trust you
totally
now (that happens only very occasionally :wink:), but I feel a whole lot better than I did before.
SpeedyKQ wrote:I'm inclined to believe Assasin. The tone and power level of the role seem close enough to my own to make me think he isn't making it up. Not only that, but his ability is confirmable. Maybe offer to be friends with Mr. Stoofer, since he seems especially skeptical?
I'm going to agree with some of this as well - certain elements of Assasin's claim do ring true. I also think it's interesting that Mr. Stoofer chose not to respond to Speedy's pointing out that the role is verifiable, because after all if we
can
confirm a pro-town role that's got to be a good idea.

Mr. Stoofer, why don't you want to be Assasin's friend?

A couple of questions for Assasin:
Assasin wrote:I am a popular townie. every day I ask people to be my friend and if they except, then I at night we talk like a mason group. The problem is I don't know if I'm friends with pro town or scum.
There you ahve it. The reason I haven't asked someone to be my friend is becaus eI though that it looked extremely suspicious.
1: Do you have a posting restriction that forces you to make spelling mistakes too? :P
2: Can you ask more than one person to be your friend each day?
3: Does all of this happen during the day, in the thread? (That's implied, but I'd just like it confirmed)

I'm also going to request an
extension to the deadline
. I think that rushing into a lynch without discussing this first would be inadvisable and there's a risk of vote inertia and blind panic.
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
User avatar
Mastermind of Sin
Mastermind of Sin
Cassandra Complex
User avatar
User avatar
Mastermind of Sin
Cassandra Complex
Cassandra Complex
Posts: 15163
Joined: October 30, 2004
Location: Sleeping with the Godfather's Daughter
Contact:

Post Post #101 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:41 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Since Omniplex has been replaced, I will give Thesp a little breathing room for now and return to my previous suspicion. Also, I think I believe Assassin's claim.

unvote, vote: Seol
Permanent V/LA.
User avatar
SpeedyKQ
SpeedyKQ
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SpeedyKQ
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1103
Joined: September 1, 2004
Location: Massachusetts

Post Post #102 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:22 am

Post by SpeedyKQ »

OK, I'm frustrated. I think brushhopper's claim has the ring of truth too, and I'm not sure if we have time for another bandwagon before deadline. Anyway's I'll
unvote brushhopper, vote Thesp.
I'm not crazy about lynching a new replacement, but at least Omniplex seemed scummy, even if I have no opinion of Thesp.
[size=75]Mafia is hard.[/size]
User avatar
SpeedyKQ
SpeedyKQ
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SpeedyKQ
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1103
Joined: September 1, 2004
Location: Massachusetts

Post Post #103 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:23 am

Post by SpeedyKQ »

OK, I'm frustrated. I think brushhopper's claim has the ring of truth too, and I'm not sure if we have time for another bandwagon before deadline. Anyway's I'll
unvote brushhopper, vote Thesp.
I'm not crazy about lynching a new replacement, but at least Omniplex seemed scummy, even if I have no opinion of Thesp.
[size=75]Mafia is hard.[/size]
SquareKnight
SquareKnight
Goon
SquareKnight
Goon
Goon
Posts: 125
Joined: December 15, 2004

Post Post #104 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:42 am

Post by SquareKnight »

Assassin, could you go into a little bit more depth on your role? Once you gain a friend, can you talk to them only for that night or for the rest of the game? Can your friends talk to eachother? Do you have to send every message to all of them?

If you don't have to send every message to everyone, there's no risk in using your ability at all. Only share information with confirmed innocents. If that's not the case, then the worst that can happen is that your mason group has a mole in it. We can always agree to say nothing, but it might be nice to wait until you know your mason is useful.

...actually, the only significant risk I see from your ability is if
you
are scum (and you have this ability). Then an innocent townie could be tricked into giving everything he or she knows away.

But if friends are public knowledge, then the mafia can keep killing the friend...which could make Assassin look awfully suspicious. Assuming he isn't scum.

unvote brushhopper


His claim seems very plausible to me. That particular explanation was one of the potential reasons I had in mind. It doesn't completely clear him, though, since even newbies can do research. A role like that is in DP's mafia.

But I also have a role-related post requirement. And I don't think I'll be able to fulfill it subtly before deadline, so...

Please respond to the following:

Q: Why didn't the skeleton cross the road?
A: Because it lacked the muscle tissue with which to actualize its intentions.

I need an acknowledgement from someone of one of my pitiful attempts at humor to use my role.

I second the request for a deadline extension. We certainly have things to talk about now.
did you ever have a sister did you did you
[i]a broken smile beneath her whispered wings[/i]
User avatar
Assasin
Assasin
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Assasin
Goon
Goon
Posts: 273
Joined: November 25, 2004
Location: Hunting You

Post Post #105 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:43 am

Post by Assasin »

Seol wrote:
Mr. Stoofer, why don't you want to be Assasin's friend?

A couple of questions for Assasin:
Assasin wrote:I am a popular townie. every day I ask people to be my friend and if they except, then I at night we talk like a mason group. The problem is I don't know if I'm friends with pro town or scum.
There you ahve it. The reason I haven't asked someone to be my friend is becaus eI though that it looked extremely suspicious.
1: Do you have a posting restriction that forces you to make spelling mistakes too? :P
2: Can you ask more than one person to be your friend each day?
3: Does all of this happen during the day, in the thread? (That's implied, but I'd just like it confirmed)

I'm also going to request an
extension to the deadline
. I think that rushing into a lynch without discussing this first would be inadvisable and there's a risk of vote inertia and blind panic.


No, I just can't type.
I believe that I can ask more than one person a day and yes my asking happens in the thread but I talk with my friends at night.
I will eventually kill you all.
DarkLight140
DarkLight140
Goon
DarkLight140
Goon
Goon
Posts: 389
Joined: October 24, 2004
Location: Lost in my thoughts

Post Post #106 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:19 am

Post by DarkLight140 »

A one-week extension to the deadline has been granted.


Vote Count:

Assasin - 4 (Mr Stoofer, Thesp, dybeck, brushhopper)
kwyjibo - 1 (Assasin)
Thesp - 2 (SpeedyKQ, BlueSin)
Seol - 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
Not Voting - 3 (kwyjibo, Seol, SquareKnight)

With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.
Last edited by DarkLight140 on Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
To be Continued...
User avatar
Seol
Seol
Logical Rampage
User avatar
User avatar
Seol
Logical Rampage
Logical Rampage
Posts: 1563
Joined: November 26, 2004
Location: In the wrong

Post Post #107 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:39 am

Post by Seol »

Right now, I think Assasin is the
worst
choice for a lynch, especially after:
SquareKnight wrote:Q: Why didn't the skeleton cross the road?
A: Because it lacked the muscle tissue with which to actualize its intentions.
Lol!

This is the second example of an in-thread dialogue activating roles, which I haven't seen very often - I doubt very much that either role was aware of the other if either of them are town, which means they're probably either both pro-town or Assasin's lying and SquareKnight is trying to back up Assasin's claim without explicitly saying so. Suffice it to say that if either turn out to be scum, the other needs a good long look at.

To date, Assasin has claimed a plausible, in-flavour role which is verifiable, potentially quite powerful, and has been supported by this latest piece of new information. In terms of a day 1 lynch, he's a horrible choice. The arguments against him are, as far as I can see, are of lurking and not much more - not that that's a bad reason to lynch day 1 in the absence of other information, but given the nature of the roleclaim it's not nearly enough.
SquareKnight wrote:...actually, the only significant risk I see from your ability is if you are scum (and you have this ability). Then an innocent townie could be tricked into giving everything he or she knows away.
That seems like a very odd scum role if he's part of the Mafia... on the other hand, I could see this as being a pro-town way of describing being a cult leader (notes details in Clever Lies for Rainy Days Book). That way he can be "confirmed" the next day by his disciple or whatever the other cultists are called, whilst slowly amassing a core of followers.

We could get round this possibility by having Assasin make friends with more than one person (more than two, actually, as he may have recruited night 1) - after all, he doesn't have to
say
anything beyond the "Welcome to my Happy Friend Club!" to his newfound pals, so the risk of giving stuff away is minimal, and any scum role that could convert/kill multiple people in a day in this manner seems implausibly powerful.

Therefore, I'm going to propose that we have Assasin make three friends of his own choice today, and then there's no substance to the mason talkery (as we don't know who to trust yet) beyond confirming that he is, in fact, who he says he is, and we get a report back tomorrow. Can anyone see any problems with this plan?

So who could we lynch?

Thesp has a couple of residual votes from Omniplex, who's only crime (as far as I can see) was lurking - which has been more than adequately explained by his apparent boredom with Mafia as a whole and subsequent dropping from the game. Thesp's own post (I'm not counting his first post as a post) seems to indicate he's more willing to participate - and as I know him from Misetings, home of the 3000+ post game, I can assure you he's more than active enough generally. I reckon this is probably premature.

Looking through what everyone's said so far, everyone's contributed to the discussion to a degree - except for one.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:random
vote: Seol


note: check the vacation/away thread
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'm back from break and happy with my vote for now...
Mastermind of Sin wrote:
unvote, vote: Omniplex, IGMEOY: Seol
Mastermind of Sin wrote:I didn't make that up...others have used it before me...if you want it in plain english, though, I'm seeing scum tells from omniplex that i've seen before, but I'm still almost as suspicious of Seol.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:Since Omniplex has been replaced, I will give Thesp a little breathing room for now and return to my previous suspicion. Also, I think I believe Assassin's claim.

unvote, vote: Seol
That's the sum total of MoS's posts to date. No discussion, just votes and assertions. He hasn't given a reason why he thinks anything, he hasn't contributed anything to the town. This is, as far as I'm concerned, lurking - there's no
content
been posted at all.

vote: Mastermind of Sin.
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
User avatar
Assasin
Assasin
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Assasin
Goon
Goon
Posts: 273
Joined: November 25, 2004
Location: Hunting You

Post Post #108 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:34 pm

Post by Assasin »

I am sorry to say that my role says I can only ask 1 person a day to be my friend which is why I would like to ask
Seol to be my friend
I will eventually kill you all.
User avatar
Seol
Seol
Logical Rampage
User avatar
User avatar
Seol
Logical Rampage
Logical Rampage
Posts: 1563
Joined: November 26, 2004
Location: In the wrong

Post Post #109 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:43 pm

Post by Seol »

I'd have preferred you asked someone like Mr. Stoofer, who's not so supportive of you, but yes - I'd love to be your friend, Assasin!
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
BlueSin
BlueSin
Unique
BlueSin
Unique
Unique
Posts: 677
Joined: December 29, 2003
Location: Zion
Contact:

Post Post #110 (ISO) » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:09 pm

Post by BlueSin »

OMG. Seol, please say you don't want, if you still can.

I sense something scummy going on. Assasin is nearly useless as town, town has nothing to hide and discuss at night, town don't need to coordinate the kill as mafia. I don't see any good use on this ability, please point out if you find one.

UNLESS, he is a liar. It is more possible that he is a mafia reculter at day asking people to be his friend. So, he should be no worry after the people say yes to his friend invite, what a great plan.

And to brushhopper, maybe u should claim tomorrow if I feel don't believe you now as post-restriction can be fake easily. er. but why? never mind, leave this aside now.

unvote Thesp
vote Assasin
Why people always find me suspicous?
User avatar
dybeck
dybeck
Ooh ooh ooh
User avatar
User avatar
dybeck
Ooh ooh ooh
Ooh ooh ooh
Posts: 1844
Joined: January 10, 2005
Location: London

Post Post #111 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:03 am

Post by dybeck »

BlueSin: I disagree completely. Town has lots of things to say that they don't want to say in front of Mafia. I suspect we all have little snippets of information and a mason group would be a real boon to the town.

Assassin is obviously telling the truth about his role. Otherwise Seol will just come back tomorrow and tell us he was lying. I also find it hard to believe that it's a mafia role.

Assassin:
1) Can your friends talk to each other?
2) Seol's a decent choice. Still not quite sure about his alignment. However, if he's pro-town, he's a savvy player who won't give too much away to scums. If he's mafia, then it's possible you'll pick up additional clues about this from his nightposts.

unvote: Assassin

and
FOS: BlueSin
Eeny. Meeny. Miney. Vote.
SquareKnight
SquareKnight
Goon
SquareKnight
Goon
Goon
Posts: 125
Joined: December 15, 2004

Post Post #112 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:18 am

Post by SquareKnight »

BlueSin, the question you
should
be asking is this:

Assassin, if your ability requires you to say something during the
day
, why did you try to explain why you didn't use it last night?
did you ever have a sister did you did you
[i]a broken smile beneath her whispered wings[/i]
SquareKnight
SquareKnight
Goon
SquareKnight
Goon
Goon
Posts: 125
Joined: December 15, 2004

Post Post #113 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:20 am

Post by SquareKnight »

Whoops, nevermind. Reading comprehension is advanced technology.

Disregard my previous post. It's completely inaccurate.
did you ever have a sister did you did you
[i]a broken smile beneath her whispered wings[/i]
SquareKnight
SquareKnight
Goon
SquareKnight
Goon
Goon
Posts: 125
Joined: December 15, 2004

Post Post #114 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:38 am

Post by SquareKnight »

I don't know how useful Assassin's role actually is. While mason groups are nice, they're nice primarily because the masons usually know that every other mason is innocent (and when that's not the case, failure to recognize that fact is very likely to lose the game). That clearly can't be the case with Assassin's role, until we have confirmed innocents.

And I'm concerned about the possibility I hadn't considered: that Assassin is some kind of day-recruiting cult leader. ...but that wouldn't work very well unless every cult member investigated as innocent, since there's a pretty obvious cause and effect.

Unless we don't have a straight cop role.

Regarding my role:

Thanks for giving me the green light, Seol.

A bit of information: My role targets a player, and, under the right circumstances, has an effect that will be visible to all players. It does not kill.

I don't want to paint a picture for the mafia, but it's important that the town knows that in case I die the night those circumstances occur.
did you ever have a sister did you did you
[i]a broken smile beneath her whispered wings[/i]
User avatar
Seol
Seol
Logical Rampage
User avatar
User avatar
Seol
Logical Rampage
Logical Rampage
Posts: 1563
Joined: November 26, 2004
Location: In the wrong

Post Post #115 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:21 am

Post by Seol »

SquareKnight wrote:I don't know how useful Assassin's role actually is. While mason groups are nice, they're nice primarily because the masons usually know that every other mason is innocent (and when that's not the case, failure to recognize that fact is very likely to lose the game). That clearly can't be the case with Assassin's role, until we have confirmed innocents.
As far as I'm concerned, the main effect of tonight's "Happy Friend Club" (as I have decided to call it) is to confirm the existence of said Happy Friend Club - I do not intend to discuss much with Assasin. Basically, I can confirm he's telling the truth, and not much more.
SquareKnight wrote:And I'm concerned about the possibility I hadn't considered: that Assassin is some kind of day-recruiting cult leader. ...but that wouldn't work very well unless every cult member investigated as innocent, since there's a pretty obvious cause and effect.
Exactly - I can't believe that they'd show up as innocent, but even if they do, eventually one of us is going to die and if we then show up as cult, that'll then result directly in everyone else recruited being lynched.
SquareKnight wrote:Thanks for giving me the green light, Seol.
No problem. I just hope it's not antitown (I thought that was far more likely that such an activation would be pro-town than anti-town - if I turn out to be wrong, you can tell me I'm an idiot after the game :wink:)
SquareKnight wrote:A bit of information: My role targets a player, and, under the right circumstances, has an effect that will be visible to all players. It does not kill.

I don't want to paint a picture for the mafia, but it's important that the town knows that in case I die the night those circumstances occur.
That is, I think, enough information for now. We don't want to roleclaim excessively day 1.
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
User avatar
kwyjibo
kwyjibo
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kwyjibo
Goon
Goon
Posts: 323
Joined: November 11, 2004
Location: the edge of the universe

Post Post #116 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:45 am

Post by kwyjibo »

I have a few questions for assasin myself..
1. are you still votig me since random/earlier sometime maybe, if so why
2. can you change who you want to be friends with
3. if we lynch your friend do you just go on with your life
4. I'm assuming if you become friends with a scum you have no idea about it, I just want to know
5. If your friend ends up nightkilled what happens?
oh yeah and :P to dybeck
hmm....so many good simpsons quotes so little sig space....
User avatar
Thesp
Thesp
Supersaint
User avatar
User avatar
Thesp
Supersaint
Supersaint
Posts: 5781
Joined: November 4, 2004
Location: Round Rock, TX
Contact:

Post Post #117 (ISO) » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:01 pm

Post by Thesp »

I concur with the sentiments that Assasin is not an ideal lynch. I'm not sold by any means as to the existence of a mafia recruiter, and I believe such an idea woud be further discounted by continuing Seol's suggestion of inviting three people to join the group. I request that Assasin invite two other people of his choosing, in similar format to his previous request. Heck, if you used the exact same format, but just changing the name of the invitee, that would be even better.

On a related note, I find it odd that Seol would "preferred [he] asked someone like Mr. Stoofer, who's not so supportive of [him]", but then accept the invitation anyway. Only minorly odd, probably just happy to confirm a role, but I can't discount the fact that he's wanting him and his scum buddies to hear anything that goes on there. I concur with Seol's own assertion that no substantive talk should go on in such friend meetings.

I find BlueSin's assertion right now more disturbing than the possibility of Assasin being a recruiter. (If he was, I suspect he may have come out earlier.)
Unvote: Assasin, Vote: BlueSin
.
"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -
Reiner Knizia

Ask me about my automatic votecounter, and how you can use it in
your
game!
Check out my 15 minutes of fame on Wait Wait...Don't Tell Me!
User avatar
Assasin
Assasin
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Assasin
Goon
Goon
Posts: 273
Joined: November 25, 2004
Location: Hunting You

Post Post #118 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:20 am

Post by Assasin »

kwyjibo wrote:I have a few questions for assasin myself..
1. are you still votig me since random/earlier sometime maybe, if so why
2. can you change who you want to be friends with
3. if we lynch your friend do you just go on with your life
4. I'm assuming if you become friends with a scum you have no idea about it, I just want to know
5. If your friend ends up nightkilled what happens?
oh yeah and :P to dybeck
Sorry Kwyjibo,
Unvote

I can't change my friends but I think that if I go into a chatroom I don't have to invite them.
I go on with life.
Corret, I have no idea if I'm friends with scum and have to find out.
I think that I just move on.



Thesp, just to let you know I can only invite one person a day, look up a bunch of posts.
I will eventually kill you all.
BlueSin
BlueSin
Unique
BlueSin
Unique
Unique
Posts: 677
Joined: December 29, 2003
Location: Zion
Contact:

Post Post #119 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:00 am

Post by BlueSin »

so that is nearly useless. what the use of invite a bunch of people to chat at night. It's same situation here at day. Not that you know the other is innocent in mason. I could be wrong, just feel that town doesn't lose anything but can't risk having a cult-leader-maybe.

Yup, we will know after the cult memeber die, but it's too late maybe. Ok, drop this if you people think i'm just over-paranoia.
Why people always find me suspicous?
User avatar
Mastermind of Sin
Mastermind of Sin
Cassandra Complex
User avatar
User avatar
Mastermind of Sin
Cassandra Complex
Cassandra Complex
Posts: 15163
Joined: October 30, 2004
Location: Sleeping with the Godfather's Daughter
Contact:

Post Post #120 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:15 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Since lynching Assassin or his new friend probably doesn't help us at this point,
unvote


Some strategy to think of if Assassin lives:

If we get a confirmed innocent, you wouldn't mind asking them to be your friend, would you, Assassin? This way, they can confirm or deny that your role works. The only problem is that if you are lying, this plan leaves you alive for way too long. If you are telling the truth, scum could just kill you or your friend to keep you from verifying the role.
Permanent V/LA.
User avatar
Seol
Seol
Logical Rampage
User avatar
User avatar
Seol
Logical Rampage
Logical Rampage
Posts: 1563
Joined: November 26, 2004
Location: In the wrong

Post Post #121 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:54 am

Post by Seol »

Thesp wrote:I concur with the sentiments that Assasin is not an ideal lynch. I'm not sold by any means as to the existence of a mafia recruiter, and I believe such an idea woud be further discounted by continuing Seol's suggestion of inviting three people to join the group. I request that Assasin invite two other people of his choosing, in similar format to his previous request. Heck, if you used the exact same format, but just changing the name of the invitee, that would be even better.

On a related note, I find it odd that Seol would "preferred [he] asked someone like Mr. Stoofer, who's not so supportive of [him]", but then accept the invitation anyway. Only minorly odd, probably just happy to confirm a role, but I can't discount the fact that he's wanting him and his scum buddies to hear anything that goes on there. I concur with Seol's own assertion that no substantive talk should go on in such friend meetings.
With regards to both those points:
Assasin wrote:I am sorry to say that my role says I can only ask 1 person a day to be my friend which is why I would like to ask
Seol to be my friend
Assasin can only invite one person a day (which I suspected would be the case for such a role, in the interests of game balance) - so it was either agree to be his friend, or lose the opportunity for the day. Furthermore, multiple-friend invitations simply aren't possible.
Mastermind of Sin wrote:If we get a confirmed innocent, you wouldn't mind asking them to be your friend, would you, Assassin? This way, they can confirm or deny that your role works. The only problem is that if you are lying, this plan leaves you alive for way too long. If you are telling the truth, scum could just kill you or your friend to keep you from verifying the role.
In terms of confirming the role, we're going to have a situation tomorrow where I can come back and confirm the truth of Assasin's claim. If I say it's true, that means one of the following:

a) What he's claiming is true.
b) We're currently scum partners and I'm covering for Assasin.
c) Assasin's got some sort of scummy recruiter role, and we become scum partners tonight.

In the case of either b) or c), if either of us dies then the other will be an obvious target the next day. In the case of b), making a connection this obvious on day 1 would be a suicidally bad (or possibly just ballsy?) strategy. In the case of c), having a
confirmed
innocent join the Happy Friend Club is
worse
than inviting a random in, as we will then lose that confirmed innocent to the cult.

Of course, in the case of a), having a confirmed innocent join the Happy Friend Club
is
the best choice, as they can then act as reliable masons (after all, if I'm not confirmed innocent and other members of the Club are, then they can always just shun me at the club if it's felt necessary). Furthermore, if we can ever get power roles into the Club (whatever they may be in this game), then there's a fair bit of potential for information-sharing being really quite powerful.

However, I do think it's probably a good idea to have a town discussion on who to invite into the Happy Friend Club on following days, if it's still an issue.
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
User avatar
Seol
Seol
Logical Rampage
User avatar
User avatar
Seol
Logical Rampage
Logical Rampage
Posts: 1563
Joined: November 26, 2004
Location: In the wrong

Post Post #122 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:02 am

Post by Seol »

BlueSin wrote:so that is nearly useless. what the use of invite a bunch of people to chat at night. It's same situation here at day. Not that you know the other is innocent in mason.
Right at the moment, it narrows down Assasin's role hugely (and mine to an extent), to one of the following:

a) He's lying, in which case tomorrow I come back and tell you so and we lynch him
knowing
that either he's scum, or I am (and if I am, I get lynched the following day).
b) He's telling the truth.
c) We're scum partners, and I cover for him tomorrow. In that case, as soon as one of us is caught, so is the other. However, this would be a monumentally moronic thing for scum partners to do.
d) He's a scum recruiter, in which case as soon as one of us is caught so is the other. However, as I argue below, the chances of such a role existing in a game of this size are slim, due to balance issues.

So basically it's
probably
either a) or b). Whether or not the role is useful in itself is a different matter, but letting Assasin live today means we'll get information tomorrow - and that alone is reason enough. Obviously, lynching him on the basis that he's not a particularly
useful
townie
BlueSin wrote:I could be wrong, just feel that town doesn't lose anything but can't risk having a cult-leader-maybe.

Yup, we will know after the cult memeber die, but it's too late maybe. Ok, drop this if you people think i'm just over-paranoia.
On the subject of the cult, another issue that occurs to me is, again, game balance. If it is the case, it's almost a strictly worse role than a standard cult leader (as all the recruitees are public knowledge) - but remember, this is a mini. We're unlikely to have more than six lynches at our disposal. Assuming the mafia's got at least two members (as otherwise it's not a mafia, is it?), if Assasin
is
a cult leader then that would mean that by tonight there's a total of at least four scum (two Mafia, Assasin, and me once I'm recruited). A situation like that would be horrendous odds against the town.

Whilst I acknowledge it's possible that Assasin's a cult recruiter, the more I think about it, the more I think it's extremely unlikely, and I'm finding your continuous attacking of the one near-guaranteed source of information for tomorrow more than just a touch spurious.
unvote, vote: BlueSin
.
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
SquareKnight
SquareKnight
Goon
SquareKnight
Goon
Goon
Posts: 125
Joined: December 15, 2004

Post Post #123 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:20 am

Post by SquareKnight »

Seol wrote:Assuming the mafia's got at least two members (as otherwise it's not a mafia, is it?), if Assasin is a cult leader then that would mean that by tonight there's a total of at least four scum (two Mafia, Assasin, and me once I'm recruited). A situation like that would be horrendous odds against the town.
Actually, four scum divided into two killing groups doesn't seem that bad to me. Opposing mafia favor the town, IIRC. But, since the cult probably wouldn't have a night kill, you're right under these circumstances.

I don't really consider Assassin to have a particularly powerful role at this point. It seems very difficult to use effectively for the town.
did you ever have a sister did you did you
[i]a broken smile beneath her whispered wings[/i]
User avatar
dybeck
dybeck
Ooh ooh ooh
User avatar
User avatar
dybeck
Ooh ooh ooh
Ooh ooh ooh
Posts: 1844
Joined: January 10, 2005
Location: London

Post Post #124 (ISO) » Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:58 pm

Post by dybeck »

Sorry to keep pestering you, Assassin, about your role but:

1) Can your friends talk to each other, or only to you?
2) Is this still the case if you are lynched/killed?

And... I also reckon you should stick to recruiting confirmed innocents if possible. That way, even if you turn out to be a cult recruiter, we can just win as cult instead of winning as town :D

And SquareKnight, don't forget that it would be four scum tonight, but potentially five, six etc on successive nights. That certainly looks like it would constitute game imbalance.

Also, I think I'm comfortable upgrading my FOS to a
vote: BlueSin
. I can't imagine why of all this town, Assassin still seems the best lynch to you.
Eeny. Meeny. Miney. Vote.
Locked