Mini 1218: POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA: AN INTERLUDE (GAME)


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:27 am

Post by zoraster »

xRECKONERx wrote:I'm not strawmanning anything.

You asked Benmage whether I was (1) fakeclaiming (under the assumption I'm town) or (2) actually had a guilty (under the assumption I'm town). You didn't even present him with the option for me to be scum


AYO SPYSPY PROD ON LLD PLZ


Well, no. Obviously I was working under the assumption benmage thought you were town when he said this:

I LOVE PRECEDENTS!!!!!! HAVE U ZORASTER EVER SEEN ANY SCUM FAKE LIKE THIS????? If the answer is no. Reck is town. Period.


But option 1 did not specify a town intent.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:29 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

I guess I can buy that, but it still doesn't do much for your scumminess besides put you solidly above evilpacman.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:37 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

THE FUCK HAPPENED HERE?

I WAS WAITING FOR THE NIGHT START TO END, AND SUDDENLY IT'S DAY 2?
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:39 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

Sigh, LLD is town.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:47 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

...

I don't know whether to yell at you all for incompetence or to weep for humanity.

Maybe I'll just vote the scum.

Vote: KKB
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:50 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

kanyeknowsbest wrote:
vote fate
i like a guilty very much.


Like seriously This needs to die.

Also, Benmage: I agree that EvilPacman's questioning Reck's sanity looks bad... but I think it's town considering that Fate fliped town. Why would scum take the time to question that? No, scum hopped on that wagon and ROAD it.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:06 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

On Another note, can Parama and Zoraster stop being town on town?
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:09 am

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Oh cool, Bud is scum too.

Scum
------
Kanye
Bud
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:20 am

Post by ToastyToast »

xRECKONERx wrote:L1
DO NOT HAMMER YET
EVERYONE NEEDS TO CHECK.IN.

Why didn't u unvote Here? This is what I was referring to.
Also, I guess I could see the whole Parama OR Benmage thing, but they're both scummy to me and I don't think the allignment of one necessarilly determines the allignment of the other. I wouldn't be like "ok parama flipped scum, so that makes benmage town because he agreed with him!"

@Parama/Ben or whoever said it: The miller thing was my second post, after the hammer, so...
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:22 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

ToastyToast wrote:
xRECKONERx wrote:L1
DO NOT HAMMER YET
EVERYONE NEEDS TO CHECK.IN.

Why didn't u unvote Here? This is what I was referring to.
Also, I guess I could see the whole Parama OR Benmage thing, but they're both scummy to me and I don't think the allignment of one necessarilly determines the allignment of the other. I wouldn't be like "ok parama flipped scum, so that makes benmage town because he agreed with him!"

@Parama/Ben or whoever said it: The miller thing was my second post, after the hammer, so...


...

You need death too. Enjoi Rope?
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:25 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

ToastyToast wrote:
xRECKONERx wrote:L1
DO NOT HAMMER YET
EVERYONE NEEDS TO CHECK.IN.

Why didn't u unvote Here? This is what I was referring to.
Also, I guess I could see the whole Parama OR Benmage thing, but they're both scummy to me and I don't think the allignment of one necessarilly determines the allignment of the other. I wouldn't be like "ok parama flipped scum, so that makes benmage town because he agreed with him!"

@Parama/Ben or whoever said it: The miller thing was my second post, after the hammer, so...

Do you know how hard it is to do bold tags on a touch screen? It's a pain in the ass. I figured screaming DO NOT HAMMER in all caps would be enough to ward off the stupid, but apparently not.

Parama and Benmage can't both be scum, is my point. They may both be town, but they can't both be scum. No scum comes out of the gate BUSSING each other the day after there's a faked guilty on a player that results in a PR lynch.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:26 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

LLD.

Use some actual logical reasoning for your reads on people instead of just quoting posts and declaring them scummy.
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:30 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

xRECKONERx wrote:LLD.

Use some actual logical reasoning for your reads on people instead of just quoting posts and declaring them scummy.


Very well then.

I explained Kanye. Scum would be eager to jump on that wagon, and his post felt faked to me.

Bud is scum for the case he pushed on Zoraster. I'll pick that apart in a second, let me go quote it.

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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:32 am

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They aren't bussing each other?

Are you referring to my comment on how I think Zoroaster and Parama are light-distancing?

Also, didn't know u had a touch screen. You had some 'xplainin to do and you 'xplained it. That's all I wanted, not trying to paint u as teh evil scumzorz.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:37 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

Wow, LLD. Can't wait to see how zor is obvtown and Bud is obvscum.

How is kanye's vote any different from anyone else's that jumped on the wagon?
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:38 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

Bub Bidderskins wrote:Okay, I did a quick re-read, and my attention instantly went to zoraster.

zoraster wrote:dammit

Image


"WTF? THAT GUY'S NOT TOWN???"

zoraster wrote:Oh, was that for real? It's so hard to tell what's a "joke" and what's a joke with you caps lock people. We can ride this train though. Reginald approves.

Image

VOTE: Fate


"Cool, free mislynch!"

The fact that he didn't take it serious at first is a major scumslip. He didn't take it serious because he
knew
that Fate was town, and was suprised to see a cop guilty. But when he realized that it was for real, he got on the bandwagon instantly.

zoraster first post of D-2 wrote:I think reckoner has some explaining to do.
\

^right of the gate he tries to divert attention to reck^

zoraster wrote:
Another slimy bastard who knew that Fate was town. He wasn't sure what to make of Reck's claim because he knew both Reck and Fate were town. So he passed it off as a joke. Well you slipped up.


I'm sorry, WHAT? Why the assumption that Reck is town?


Again he tries to divert attention to reck, but he never calls him out as scum and doesn't vote for him. He simply tries to steer the discussion in his direction without getting too invovled. That's textbook scumplay.

zoraster wrote:
Parama wrote:zoraster even Reck is too ballsy to fakeclaim cop with a guilty on D1 as scum. Heck, there is absolutely no scum motivation to do so.


oh good. the too scum to be scum argument. always a winner!


Now's he's trying to discredit parama's assertion that reck is town. Note how he says that reck is "too scummy" but yet he never voted for reck. If he was really sincere about his suspisions of reck, he would have voted. There's no reason not to as town.

zoraster wrote:
Parama wrote:Zoraster, I want you to list out all the pro's and con's for a scum to fakeclaim a guilty on day 1. Then I want you to either self-vote or facepalm, depending on your alignment,


Pros:
1. Get a townie lynched
2. Escape because some idiot will make the argument you're too scummy to be scum. Maybe they'll even think you're MORE townie for doing it.

Cons:
1. Maybe there are more sane people than there are idiots.

Despite that, I do think there's the possibility that he had some sort of weird power role interaction thingy. But Fate's power doesn't appear to be miller-esque, and a night 1 role-fuckup would be pretty lucky for scum on night 1.


Gives a really weak reason as to why scum would do that. The con also conotes that people who think reck is scum are "sane" while those who don't are "idiots". Again, subtley trying to push a reck wagon without actually getting on it.

zoraster wrote:
Parama wrote:Actually I'll do it for you:

Pros:
-Day 1 ends in a mislynch (note: statistically speaking this is most likely going to happen on its own)

Cons:
-Chance to be vigged overnight if there's a vig
-Almost assuredly going to be a scum lynch day 2
-If scum somehow manage to survive after a cop fakeclaim day 1, their future input will be completely ignored by the town


So let me get this straight.

On the one hand you're saying I'm an idiot for believing Reckoner is scum. As if it's SO obvious that he's not from his actions.

On the other hand, you're saying it's obvious that you're getting lynched the following day.

These are inconsistent statements. Pick one.


Says that believes that reck is scum. This is interesting because it's the first time he's expressly stated it despite making several subtle attempts to get a reck wagon started.

zoraster wrote:
Parama wrote:So then zor who do you think is scum?

P-edit:
Scum look at the hard facts more than what is actually likely to play out.


I think you are, and here's why:

Reckoner may or may not be scum with a very aggressive gambit. Probably not SK or something because eventually reck is going to have to die for his actions and that's not SK behavior. I'm not sure as I can't evaluate him yet in any case.

You on the other hand, have come out swinging defending Reck. And why? The idea that he wouldn't make a gambit like he did is pretty damn flimsy to act with certainty. But you seem pretty hellbent on it. You're manufacturing weak-ass cases on people based on a day 1. That's fine when we're in a low information stage, but the tenor of your discussion makes it seem like you've caught scum.

So I think you want points for defending a scummy looking person because that'll come across as sincere, and you want points to being an aggressive scum hunter. But I think neither is motivated by a desire to catch scum at all. I think it's designed to make you look good. and that's scummy.

VOTE: Parama


Vote: Zoraster


Seriously? After all the rhetoric about reck being scum you come out and vote for
parama
??? The guy who you think is scum only because he defended a scumbud? You voted for the guy who you thought was scum by association rather the one who was scum individually, which makes absolutely no sense from a town perspective. Though it does from a scum perspective, because when reck flips town, parama will be confirmed town, and you can't have that, so we're going in reverse order.

Oh, but wait, we're preserving reck for a mislynch at a later date, so we're cool.

Zoraster wrote:I noticed where you made up a whole bunch of crap, called it caught scum and patted yourself on the back. The whole machismo method of "scum hunting" needs to die already.

You want my case? Look above. It's a damn sight more compelling than yours.


Ad-hom and a lie, respectively.

Zoraster wrote:I'll let others weigh in as it's not beneficial to town to have a pissing contest that takes up more space, but this is just idiotic dribble. It's the "if you say something enough times it becomes correct" mentality. But we're not playing with the Tea Party here. We're playing with some good players who I'm confident will see through that idiocy.

Anyway, go to sleep. We'll see what others think. I'll be curious to see what benmage is talking about as well as Reckoner's response.


More ad-hom, with absolutely no attempt being made to further either of his scum-reads' wagons.

Zoraster is scum, plain and simple. Virtually every post he has made this entire game has been scummy. He's pushing wagons without any conviction (because he knows their mislynches), he was surprised when reck claimed a guilty on somebody he knew was town, and he voted for parama based on association tells over the person he thinks is scum based on individual tells. More Zoraster votes please.



This post boils down to the following:

1) Strawmaning Zora's posts, calling them scummy.
2) Calling the fact that Zora expressed suspicion for a faked cop report scummy.
3) Stating that Zora's perspective on the Parama vote only comes from scum.

The first two are obvious lolno.

The third one is based on the assumption that Zora believes Reck is 100% confirmed scum. If that;s true, then fair enough. But it isn't, as far as I can tell. Mostly, that's a misrep.

You finish off your case by throwing the "Ad Hom" buzzword at him, and then summarizing your bullshit into a couple of lines and asking for Zora votes.

Yeah, this is scum.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:40 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

xRECKONERx wrote:Wow, LLD. Can't wait to see how zor is obvtown and Bud is obvscum.

How is kanye's vote any different from anyone else's that jumped on the wagon?


Can't wait to see your next cop report Reck. You're such a benefit to this game right now~.

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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:41 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

Zora has been lightly throwing shit my way to see if it sticks. The "setting me up for a mislynch" thing is very blatantly obvious.

Can we just agree on evilpacman at least?

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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:43 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

xRECKONERx wrote:Zora has been lightly throwing shit my way to see if it sticks. The "setting me up for a mislynch" thing is very blatantly obvious.

Can we just agree on evilpacman at least?

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Sure, if you think Pacman is town we can agree.

Or, alternatively you can try and convince me he's scum.

Of course, faking a guilty won't work this time, so you'll need to actually bring up some salient points.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:52 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

xRECKONERx wrote:Wow, LLD. Can't wait to see how zor is obvtown and Bud is obvscum.

How is kanye's vote any different from anyone else's that jumped on the wagon?


It feels different. It doesn't feel town.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:10 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

great response

Look at Pacman's responses to my fakeclaim:

"Lol VOTE"
^ not wanting to seem conspicuous since he knew it was a fakeclaim

"Guys Reck could be insane"
^ shows knowledge that Fate will flip town
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:19 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

xRECKONERx wrote:great response

Look at Pacman's responses to my fakeclaim:

"Lol VOTE"
^ not wanting to seem conspicuous since he knew it was a fakeclaim

"Guys Reck could be insane"
^ shows knowledge that Fate will flip town


So why would he then say that? Knowing that Fate would flip town, and that you would be a suspect due to your claim, why would he not sit back and let you do it?

That's not scum. Unless you're arguing refuge in audacity.

And if you ARE arguing that, then I suggest you look at your own fakeclaim, and how that can be considered refuge in audacity.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:19 am

Post by Parama »

Before I sort through this mess someone tell me
why would hiphop be a good vig kill
you don't vig someone who hasn't said a damn thing
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:22 am

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

Parama wrote:Before I sort through this mess someone tell me
why would hiphop be a good vig kill
you don't vig someone who hasn't said a damn thing


I think the response to this is "I agree with Yosarian2", but I actually agree with the sentiment expressed above.

Having said that, I'd like to lay off that kind of speculation for the moment. It's not helpful.
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:27 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
xRECKONERx wrote:great response

Look at Pacman's responses to my fakeclaim:

"Lol VOTE"
^ not wanting to seem conspicuous since he knew it was a fakeclaim

"Guys Reck could be insane"
^ shows knowledge that Fate will flip town


So why would he then say that? Knowing that Fate would flip town, and that you would be a suspect due to your claim, why would he not sit back and let you do it?

That's not scum. Unless you're arguing refuge in audacity.

And if you ARE arguing that, then I suggest you look at your own fakeclaim, and how that can be considered refuge in audacity.

He would say that because
he's trying to clear himself of having suspicion thrown his way after Fate flips town
. How is that hard to understand? evilpacman is a derp player, he's not smart enough to just sit back and let it happen. He got antsy and tried to lay the groundwork for LOL WELL I KNEW RECK WAS FAKECLAIMING to push for a me-lynch later
Parama wrote:Before I sort through this mess someone tell me
why would hiphop be a good vig kill
you don't vig someone who hasn't said a damn thing

You also don't vig Elli, ever
hiphop hadn't contributed and thus would've made a good vig kill

Elli was a vocal player who can pose a serious threat and thus makes a good scum kill
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