Mini 1270 - Stargate SG-1 Mafia

[Timeater]

That is not why I voted Redacted at all.

[Timeater]

Felmix can you tunnel someone

I'd like to see that

[Timeater]

ps you're elmo right? I think we've played together before.

fucking serum and steel mafia

fuck

[smargaret]

Votecount 1.4

1. PeregrineV - 1 (Christine)
2. Felmix - 0
3. Timeater - 2 ([Redacted].4nxi3ty)
4. Workdawg - 0
5. Ravel - 0
6. Vala Mal Doran - 2 (jerobbo, Felmix)
7. Christine - 0
8. malthusis - 0
9. [Redacted] - 3 (Fennin, Vala Mal Doran, Timeater)
10. Fennin - 0
11. 4nxi3ty - 1 (Workdawg)
12. jerobbo - 1 (PeregrineV)
13. Citizen Karne - 0

Not Voting - 3 (Ravel, malthusis, Citizen Karne)

[Ravel]

The last game I completed, the town lost (perfect scum win) because they were passive. This only benefited the scum team since they just blended in into that play style.

Vote: Citizen Karne

It's hard to get reads off of people who don't post. Let's get the posts up people!

[Timeater]

*pokes felmix*

[Timeater]

I c u thar

Quit lurking, scumbag

SCUMHUNT, POST, ANYTHING.

[Felmix]

Timeater: Indeed we did, in BSG: The Basestar Mafia, I believe.

I dont view it as a big deal. I actually think people should nameclaim/fluffclaim in at the start of all almost all non-standard games.

Is this something you do consistently, then? How many of your recent "non-standard" games did you do this in?

I wouldn't mind a name claim actually, even if fake claims exist.

I already said that I don't mind a name claim at all since I doubt it's cut and dry whether a certain name claim is scum or town.

Both of these seem backwards to me. If scum have fakeclaims, any kind of mass claiming can only hurt the town; either the scum can get some useful information, or no-one gains anything. If you thought a nameclaim

could

definitively be linked to alignment, that's a good reason to nameclaim, and the same reasoning seems to apply. Could you clarify what you meant here a bit?

Timeater is almost certainly town for that move; why are you voting him?

Right now you are the towniest person in the game

{..}

I'm interested in the change, here. It seems like you overreacted, changing your mind when Time poked at you. Can you say why you had such an extreme initial reaction?

{..}

He's now using it as town cred, trying to lead the discussion and is trying to bully other people into name claiming. Bullocks to that; I say he's scum trying to run with a fake claim.

I have a problem with this. I don't mind the idea he was doing it for town cred, but I think you're pretty significantly misrepresenting his behaviour when you talk about him bullying people into name claiming. He stated that his claim was partially due to a general principle, and explained that when specifically asked. That contrasts with the picture you're painting; I think you're trying to make him look much more aggressive than is warranted. Why is that?

I'd also tend towards Anxiety being town, largely on gut.

- Elmo

[Timeater]

I think I flaked that game. Sure it wasn't some other game? whatevs.

@ Your question - No. Though something I do DO consistently is come up with whacked-out plans earlygame that people generally scoff at. The fluffclaiming thing is a new development because of how I'm starting to grow/think about my concept of "hard information".

Anyway thanks for posting I'll stop spamming now.

[Citizen Karne]

If you've never played with me before, as I'm sure many of you haven't, I rarely vote except to hammer. This is a playstyle choice, just so you know. You will be able to tell by my FoS (Fingers of Suspicion) who I feel is scum, if for some reason you are too lazy to read my posts . If you'd like to meta me, be my guest. That's my spiel, and I hope to have a good game!

That being said, let's get down to business. Now, I lost my entire post, so I'll just rewrite it briefly because I'm short on time.

Nameclaiming that early is a poor choice in this game because it doesn't benefit the town (games are designed to be unbreakable, fakeclaims are consistently provided to mafia on this site), and this theme does not lend easily to flavor breaking regardless (everyone has guns, so a lot of people could be argued to be a vig; also what would make Hammond a tracker/cop/doctor more than Teal'c or Daniel), so I tend to agree with that part of [Redacted]'s case on Timeater. I think it is more likely for a scum to nameclaim early because nameclaiming is almost always misinterpreted by most as provided more information than it really does, and that can lead to Timeater being perceived as being much more pro-town than he really is. Val proclaims him town immediately, which makes me suspicious of him as well. Him being an alt is not important to this game; I am an alt, and I purposefully play very differently than my main account. This is a common reason for having alts, so alt-meta has a built in wifom-clause, so to speak. I would also like an explanation for Timeater's vote on Fannin immediately after declaring the RVS over. You say you "obviously" ended RVS, but how can you assume everyone would recognize and agree with this? What if he hadn't even read all the posts? The rest of Timeater's response to 4nxi3ty makes me not want to ever play with him, but is not necessarily indicative of scum.

Anger is not a scumtell, just a sign of immaturity or frustration.

This is a bit of a warning more than a response as no one has really jumped on him for this, but it needs to be said before we dig ourselves down the wifom hole.

FoS: Timeater, Vala Mal Doran

However, [Redacted]'s case does contain a misrepresentation of what Timeater did, because Timeater doesn't try and use his early nameclaim to cast himself in a positive light (even though this reason is a logical inference of what his intentions could be) and he doesn't (at least from my perspective) seem to be bullying anyone into fakeclaiming. Timeater's response, however, also contains what I like to call "off-white noise" - something written so that it seems as though there is something to be inferred from it when there is actually nothing to be inferred. It's technically not white, but it's not really a real color so it might as well be white, to complete the analogy. I can't see why else you would reference his use of the bullet term (I'm too lazy to look up the exact wording) other than to obfuscate your case and make it seem like there was more evidence than there was. Right now, I'm willing to chalk up [Redacted]'s misrepresentations as honest mistakes (Val claims Timeater is town for example, and the bullying remark may be a result of Timeater's overall aggressiveness), as well as jerobbo's post about nameclaiming.

FoS: PeregrineV

I can't imagine voting someone who is still a Goon for not knowing specifics about the site. jerobbo's post seemed like a classic honest mistake, yet PeregrineV immediately votes for him without addressing the bigger issues that have already surfaced today. On that note, I'd like to quote a good post by PeregrineV, which sums up the attitude we should take towards players lie Timeater:

you think im scum?

Don't know yet, but making absolute statements like that will be viewed with a skeptical eye, if you know what I mean. And craplogic will be called on, if I catch it.

His absolutes can easily mislead the town, so be careful. Unfortunately, this boils down to a playstyle choice (that is, in my opinion, anti-town, and one I would policy lynch if I magically could, because of the wifom-y distractions immediately caused by the fallacy that anger, rudeness, and aggression are scumtells, when they are in fact NOTHING of the sort), so there's not really anything we can do. Just take what he says with a grain of salt and hopefully we can avoid lynching him for the wrong reasons.

[Citizen Karne]

Whoops, missed the last page. Ravel, I can assure you I was just busy. Hopefully my last post proves that I'm certainly here to contribute, and that my absence is not indicative of my play in general!

Felmix, good catch on the Val flip-flop; I missed that one.

[Citizen Karne]

*players like Timeater

[jerobbo]

Right OK - thanks for clarifying that people. So basically nameclaims mean nothing in a theme game.

That makes Timeaters claim weird. I guess he could be using it for town cred. To be fair to him I did a little meta and he pretty much acts like this all the time and I found an example of him boasting about ending RVS in post 20 or something in a different game, so this isn't out of character.

I'm inclined to believe all the active posters so far are Townish, no one strikes me as scum yet so I'm looking at the lurkers to start contributing.

[Fennin]

That makes Timeaters claim weird. I guess he could be using it for town cred. To be fair to him I did a little meta and he pretty much acts like this all the time and I found an example of him boasting about ending RVS in post 20 or something in a different game, so this isn't out of character.

His claim is indeed weird and unexpected. Doesn't make his scum but the least we can say is that he is under the spotlights. Timeater seems to heavily rely on meta and seems elitist. So far it doesn't bother me, could even be a big asset if he is town.

I'm inclined to believe all the active posters so far are Townish, no one strikes me as scum yet so I'm looking at the lurkers to start contributing.

Did yuou both, Felmix and Citizen Karne, got a prod from the mod or did you simply start posting after being accused of lurking? There's only malthusis left as an inactive who has contributed nothing so far, only confirmed in thread.

[Ravel]

Fair enough CK, but I'm not a huge fan of largely FoSing without votes. It doesn't put any pressure on anyone and if you're scum it's quite easy to FoS your scum team without really risking a lynch But at least we know what you're thinking now.

Unvote
Vote: malthusis

your thoughts?

Both of these seem backwards to me. If scum have fakeclaims, any kind of mass claiming can only hurt the town; either the scum can get some useful information, or no-one gains anything. If you thought a nameclaim

could

definitively be linked to alignment, that's a good reason to nameclaim, and the same reasoning seems to apply. Could you clarify what you meant here a bit?
- Elmo

Until Peregrines's post in #93, I didn't think the scum could get useful information out of a name claim. Also, I've always assumed that names don't correspond to alignment, nor does it determine who's a power role or not, so your second point doesn't apply to me.

Also, name claims are generally bad idea overall due to role interactions. If player A's role is to kill John Doe, and Player B admits to being John Doe, then player A will try to kill player B. If both players are also town, too bad for them. And while this usually happens only in large games, trying to outguess the mod is never a good idea.

@PeregrineV: Can you link me to a game where that scenario has taken place?

[Timeater]

@mod - limited access next two days

karne seems a bit of a pedant and someone who'd i'd like to beat up but other than that he seems like an ok town poster. i'm willing to give him the "effort badge".

my town reads:
(higher the precentage more likely i think they are town/scum)

ravel 75%
jerobbo 80%
karne 65%
workdawg 70%

null reads:

VMD 50%
anyone who hasnt posted
PV 50%

scum reads:

redacted 100%
anxiety 65%
felmix 65%

[Timeater]

oh forgot fennin.

town read 85%

[PeregrineV]

Also, name claims are generally bad idea overall due to role interactions. If player A's role is to kill John Doe, and Player B admits to being John Doe, then player A will try to kill player B. If both players are also town, too bad for them. And while this usually happens only in large games, trying to outguess the mod is never a good idea.

@PeregrineV: Can you link me to a game where that scenario has taken place?

I've only seen it in Larges, but here's a recent mini:

Role: Balrog
Wincon met: Deathscene

[PeregrineV]

@Karne- FoS do not show up in the vote count. And vote count patterns are helpful in scumhunting. Just so you know, this will earn you additional scrutiny and suspicion, at least from me.

I'm semi-nodding at Time's town reads, so for now I'll go look at his scum reads.

[Felmix]

Felmix can you tunnel someone

I'd like to see that

I don't quite know how to respond to this. I consider tunnelling (ignoring everyone except one person) to be poor play, so I don't see why we'd do that - do you mean something else?

I think I flaked that game. Sure it wasn't some other game? whatevs.

@ Your question - No. Though something I do DO consistently is come up with whacked-out plans earlygame that people generally scoff at. The fluffclaiming thing is a new development because of how I'm starting to grow/think about my concept of "hard information".

Anyway thanks for posting I'll stop spamming now.

I believe that's the only one we've been in together - you had to drop out due to a health issue. For what it's worth, you saw this account online because I was composing that post while doing other things. I think I understand what you mean with respect to information, albeit I'm less sure that it clearly benefits town.

Right now, I'm willing to chalk up [Redacted]'s misrepresentations as honest mistakes (Val claims Timeater is town for example, and the bullying remark may be a result of Timeater's overall aggressiveness), as well as jerobbo's post about nameclaiming.

While Timeater has been fairly aggressive overall, Redacted made that comment in #52, when Timeater had been fairly mild; he only really gets going after #62. In particular, he hadn't exerted any pressure on anyone to nameclaim - "bullying" is plain wrong. I don't see this as a good explanation.

In keeping with #107, UNVOTE: Vala Mal Doran, VOTE: [Redacted].

- Elmo

[4nxi3ty]

hmmm I do agree that the "bullying" comment was an over-exaggeration, yet the rest of his post had good info; Do you really think one small part of one post warrants putting someone closer to lynch range?

fos Felmix

HoS PeregrineV

[jerobbo]

It does slightly feel like Redacted is exaggerating timeater's behaviour.

And the 'flail more scum' was a bit of a weird thing to say so early. Personally I'm never 100% on someone being scum so early in a game which does make me wary of both Redacted and timeater who both seem to be 100% that the other is scum.

Unvote

for now since my vote is still from RVS. Would like to hear from the lurkers before voting.

[malthusis]

@Ravel: A few general thoughts.....

I agree with the general points of Redacted's idea (Having a townish sounding name in a series DOES NOT mean they are town), but not necessarily the Timeater is scum conclusion. The nameclaim is null for the moment, and if anyone has the same name, now's the time to claim it.

Timeater's overreaction tunneling for it sort of makes it suspicious, but I've seen many cases where town tunnel on town for attacking them (in fact, it just happened in my last finished game). I put both on a town lean for now.

Citizenkarne gives me a town vibe for trying to do something (which is innately a town action) which puts me at a town read for now, but we'll see how that goes later on.

Felmix folding his support for Redacted in two posts seems a bit suspicious to me, need to look into it.

Thoughts in brief on active players:
Timeater: town lean
Redacted: town lean
Anxiety: novice town
CK: fairly town
Felmix: non-town lean, need to look into it.

Preview Edit: On second thought, that could be a hydra clash. Fenix seems like he supports Redacted, while Elmo is voting him. What's the offical "together" stance on him?

[malthusis]

Mod: What are the prod rules? Christine needs a prod either way.

[Timeater]

indecision is losing me games. im sick and tired of it.

my earlygame reads are almost always right. im tired of letting other people do my thinking for me. it never works. if im wrong, im wrong. but at least i had conviction. at least i wont be a wont be some flip-floppy fish that contributes nothing.

confidence > paranoia

decisiveness > indecisiveness

thats why im 100% sure he's scum