Ladies Night 2: No Cover -- (Game Over)

[Eidolon]

K. Caught up.

I really don't like brandi's posts and i def. don't agree with her theory but i don't think she's scum.

I like amrun's attack on sucrose. She's backtracking with very minimal pressure. I also don't really like the vote on seastorm after seastorm said she'd be v/la for the next 3/4 days.

Right now, my biggest scum read is springlullaby. She votes brandi because she was talking about RVS. Spring, does talking about theory make someone scum? She completely ignored the wagon dynamics that are going on, or anything else that has happened in the game so far, to vote on something insignificant.

Unvote, Vote: Springlullaby

Also, DGB, you seem very confident in your reads for such an early stage and you aren't providing much reasoning for them. What is so skecthy about camn? Voting without a reasoning? What is so bad about that...? IT get's pressure going and gets people thinking. What about Seastorms posts are too dingaling for scum?

[RedCoyote]

Vote Count 1 - 4

• Seastormjt

  (5) (MathGirl277 - Bunnylover - Huntress - Sucrose - Brandi)
  
  
  PiggyGal15
  (2) (DrippingGoofball -

  Brandi

  - Seastormjt)
  
  
  Sucrose
  (2) (Amrun - camn)
  
  
  springlullaby
  (2) (Fujiko - Eidolon)
  
  
  RachMarie
  (1) (Telo)
  
  
  flinter
  (1) (Tammy)
  
  
  Brandi
  (1) (springlullaby)
  
  
  camn
  (1) (CityElectric)
  
  
  Amrun
  (0) (

  CityElectric

  )
  
  
  DrippingGoofball
  (0) (

  Eidolon

  -

  Sucrose

  )
  
  
  Not Voting
  (3) (RachMarie - flinter - PiggyGal15)

With eighteen alive, it takes ten to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2012-10-11 12:10:00)

[Fujiko]

Also, DGB, you seem very confident in your reads for such an early stage and you aren't providing much reasoning for them. What is so skecthy about camn? Voting without a reasoning? What is so bad about that...?

This statement feels contradictory to me.

DGB isn't providing much reasoning - but camn is providing even less.

VOTE: Eidolon

[Sucrose]

K. Caught up.

I really don't like brandi's posts and i def. don't agree with her theory but i don't think she's scum.

I like amrun's attack on sucrose. She's backtracking with very minimal pressure. I also don't really like the vote on seastorm after seastorm said she'd be v/la for the next 3/4 days.

Right now, my biggest scum read is springlullaby. She votes brandi because she was talking about RVS. Spring, does talking about theory make someone scum? She completely ignored the wagon dynamics that are going on, or anything else that has happened in the game so far, to vote on something insignificant.

Unvote, Vote: Springlullaby

It was an RVS vote. There was nothing to backtrack from. I didn't actually think Goofball's post was scummy and never implied so.

Yes, yes, I know, I made an RVS vote while declaring that RVS was over. It's a paradox.

spring voted because she thought brandi's RVS theory discussion seemed fake. That's not insignificant, because scum

do

want to be seen talking without actually saying anything. I don't really have a read on brandi yet, though.

[Sucrose]

Oh, and Seastorm is only going to be gone for another 3-4 days, and the players in this game are far too experienced to run up someone who's on V/LA.

[Eidolon]

Fujiko, it's not really contradictory because i'm not calling her suspicious, just trying to get more of a feel for her reasoning behind her reads. camn just put a vote up, she didn't give any reads. as i said before, votes without reads are valuable in garnering reactions and driving up pressure.

Sucrose, if it was an rvs/ not serious vote, why did you respond to amrun in a way that was serious? why not just say it was rvs when you were asked about it?

Also, don't you think your reasoning for springs vote is exactly what spring herself did? Find something to talk about without really talking about much that had gone on in the thread so far. Brandi did more than just talk about theory, she defended Piggy, which meant she was taking a stance, not just throwing general sh!t out there for the sake of it. Spring on the other hand, had more of a fake reaction, because she pointed out something that wasn't scummy and avoided talk of anything else.

[Sucrose]

Fujiko, it's not really contradictory because i'm not calling her suspicious, just trying to get more of a feel for her reasoning behind her reads. camn just put a vote up, she didn't give any reads. as i said before, votes without reads are valuable in garnering reactions and driving up pressure.

Sucrose, if it was an rvs/ not serious vote, why did you respond to amrun in a way that was serious? why not just say it was rvs when you were asked about it?

Well, at this point I guess I should have. It was my opening post and I'd have thought that declaring that DG's name reminded me of slimy tennis balls rather than boogers and then saying I was "mildly miffed" would have made it obvious that it wasn't exactly a serious vote. Amrun asked me a serious theory question so I answered seriously.

Also, don't you think your reasoning for springs vote is exactly what spring herself did? Find something to talk about without really talking about much that had gone on in the thread so far. Brandi did more than just talk about theory, she defended Piggy, which meant she was taking a stance, not just throwing general sh!t out there for the sake of it. Spring on the other hand, had more of a fake reaction, because she pointed out something that wasn't scummy and avoided talk of anything else.

No, making a vote and stating the reason why is the opposite of talking about nothing, even if you don't agree with the reasoning.

[Eidolon]

okay. so then let's get technical for the sake of arguing then. Brandi didn't talk about NOTHING either. she obviously said something.

Rather, Springy was avoiding taking a stance on the larger issues in the thread to focus on fake scumhunting. Saying that brandi talking about theory, which is useless, does NOT make her scum. Which means that springy was picking on something just because it gave her something to talk about. Her attempt at scumhunting was fabricated.

[Eidolon]

^ that first line might have came off as a bit rude. sorry, just tired.

[Tammy]

All the ladies in the house make some NOISE!!!

VOTE: flinter

Pretty sure I wasn't done with my irrational tunnel from our last game

Sorry about that. I don't think I played very well that game. I tunneled quite a bit onto you as well, really couldn't believe you were town.

If we think each other scum again, shall we try to use short posts this game? It got a bit out of hand in the last one.

I didn't play well at either...seeing as how I basically lost the game for us . Deal though ...

-----

Meh Brandi's point on RVS is eh...In GvE, two of the scum team made stupid mistakes in RVS that helped me identify them in endgame. As in one voted his partners in two posts relatively close to each other and the other actually addressed both in one post. Some scum make stupid mistakes like that in RVS but it definitely doesn't apply to everyone or every game as any halfway experienced, aware scum isn't going to do this. And the post she linked to had Mastin explaining why scum were scummiest in every step of the game. How people act in RVS/Early game and what wagons they jump to are more telling most times than who they joke voted for on page two.

But, she's so overeager and insistent about it, that it just seems so genuine TOWN.

-----

DGB looks good for getting things moving and is

probably

town, but is most likely someone who is going to spike my paranoia for the remainder of our existences. HOWEVER, I think she's overestimating the PiggyGal situation who looks to me like a potential mislynch, but probably one I won't lose any tears over, except...

PiggyGal

In Post 32 you say you're always the day one mislynch when you're town, but then in Post 55 you say you only have one completed town game and don't have a meta, but then in Post 63 you talk about the beginning of the game as if you're associated with it and talk about how you can't get reads for several days. I'm facepalming right now. Can you explain to me why you are appealing to a meta at the same time that you are claiming you don't have one? Also, what do you think about the people voting for you right now?

-----

I do agree with the accusations, and I really dislike that she hasn't actually done anything about them, and that she hasn't moved her vote to try to actually hunt :/

This might have been a reasonable point if it had been some time, say a day or so, after Piggy's vote, but a couple of hours? It just looks opportunistic.

Vote: Seastormjt

Why didn't you have anything to say about the Piggy situation? This is literally your only post so far, and the Piggy thing was way more attention gathering than Seastorm. You don't have anything to say about it?

VOTE: Huntress

---------

I was just about to reconsider my vote when I realized I'm actually going on V/LA starting now until, like, the 2nd. I can check in to answer questions and stuff if the game keeps moving, but I'm going to be really busy for the next few days.

Why not? What does your V/LA have to do with your vote? Do you not like where it is? Do you feel uncomfortable just unmoving it for some reason?

-------

Intermission: Do y'all hear people's voices based on their avatars? Like Brandi sounds like smurfette to me, but Springlullaby has this really smooth sounding voice...kind of Demi Moore-ish but not so scratchy.

-------

Sucrose is most likely town.

-------

MathGirl - Yeah....both you and Seastorm have read the rules, right? You know the deadlines, right? I'm not going to do meta research to see if you and Sea have both finished a game here, but you both have start dates that suggest you have some experience with expectancies around here. I play at another site that has 32 hour days and crazy online expectancies, but I don't come here and suspect people for not conforming to what is expected at another site, so I'm not really sure where you're going with that. Yes, adjusting is strange sometimes, but it doesn't have anything to do with aggression and has to do with jumping on what is expected within reason.

MathGirl though strikes me as someone who has been criticized for her playstyle but feels the need to defend it. Overal TOWN.

-----

Another Intermission: Can we cool it on the buzzwords? I so rarely see them used properly that's it's rather annoying more than it's helpful.

-----

Telo

Why do you hate changing your vote on someone? What do you think about Piggy girl? Also, what are your thoughts about Huntress? Do you have any opinions on anything going on in the game so far?

-----

Amrun's leaning town

------

Not sure why Eidolon has a scum read on SpringLullaby. I don't think there's been enough of SpringLullaby to make a difference, but she's made a similar approach to Brandi that she made towards me in Heterosexual Revolution so it strikes me as a personality tell and a way she deals with others ideas rather than something that is alignment inidicative.

Eidolon

You say that you are voting SpringLullaby for ignoring the major wagons or what is going on. So what are your thoughts on Huntress or Telo who have both responded so far but haven't made a comment on the wagons?

-----

[springlullaby]

Spring, there was a direct question regarding RVS and it ending early as well as it's merits.
A player landed a vote becaues of such.
I was giving reasoning as to why it was a legitimate and understandable stance, because I had that opinion as well.
Now I did not say that it made DGB scum, though- just that the reasoning could make sense.

I think it's important for everyone to realize how useful RVS is when coming back to re-read, it can help the town late game when trying to determine scum from a pool of less players.
Just because I have not actively looked for such connection in the past does not mean I do not believe in the theory.
It is something that I learned, and have been trying to apply in my comeback to playing this game.
But I could not link you to anything because all of the games I am playing are ongoing.

My older games when I joined the site I did not take such things into account because I was new and ignorant of how to properly play the game.
But I have taken a recent interest in mafia theory and felt the need to express my opinions on such because it did indeed feel relevant.
I even stated that I did not feel like discussing it further past a point- because I felt that is when it outlived it's relevancy. (See: My back and forth with Amrun)

I think you are downplaying the authority with which you held your views now because I recall that you opened that line of argument with "Statistics show that most scum is caught during the RVS stage" , which was out of nowhere, and then followed by a series of post seemingly whining about how it's bad we have lost RVS.
This combined with the fact that you would back up a joke vote as 'a reasonable stance', I find to be off key.
I will retain as true however that you did try to end that discussion.

You jumping on to me and claiming you don't believe my opinions and am therefore scum feels very reachy- and the fact that you suggest that I need to have expressed this in the past is a fallacy.

I and your constant use of schoolbook pejorative mafia-terms - such as 'strawman, jumping, reaching, fallacy - without much explanation is certainly grating on my nerves. I don't know if you are doing it consciously or simply lacking better words.
Please do tell me how I 'jumped' on you. Etc. What fallacy? Complaining about the loss of RVS would sound more genuine to me if you did have past success in catching scum from it.

Right now, my biggest scum read is springlullaby. She votes brandi because she was talking about RVS. Spring, does talking about theory make someone scum? She completely ignored the wagon dynamics that are going on, or anything else that has happened in the game so far, to vote on something insignificant.

Unvote, Vote: Springlullaby

Please describe to me what has happened in the game so far that warranted my attention more than Brandi. My position on the subject is what had happened prior to my vote on Brandi was not very interesting.
I think piggy is meh, I can understand the votes but whether Piggy is scum is totally a wildcard at this point. The sucrose wagon I don't get

[springlullaby]

EBWOP

*I do think that you are scummy for the reason I described and your constant use of schoolbook pejorative mafia-terms - such as 'strawman, jumping, reaching, fallacy - without much explanation is certainly grating on my nerves.

=The sucrose wagon I don't get, but it'd be interesting to see how it unfold.
I think talking theory is generally pointless and gives zero info, and thus anti-town. In that Brandi is bad, moreover the point she stood on strongly is paradoxically not very strong, plus her two other votes are lacklustre and follower-ish. But then I do keep in mind that the game is not very advanced yet.
You say in one of post that Brandi is defending Piggy, I'm assuming that you meant Sucrose. If so, I don't see what there was to defend against to begin with.

[Brandi]

followed by a series of post seemingly whining about how it's bad we have lost RVS.
This combined with the fact that you would back up a joke vote as 'a reasonable stance', I find to be off key.

Nowhere was I whining about anything.
And it did not appear to be a joke vote to me, I took it seriously.

[Brandi]

What fallacy? Complaining about the loss of RVS would sound more genuine to me if you did have past success in catching scum from it.

You do not need to have experienced something to have an opinion on it, that is common sense. Which is why I refer to it as a fallacy.

[Brandi]

Also "complaining" you keep throwing words in like that that are completely unfounded.
Nothing about my stance or opinions is that of one who is unhappy or is complaining/whining. I don't know where you're getting that from but it really feels like you are trying to misrepresent me, when in fact all I was doing was explaining why someone had a good reason for their vote.
Which by the way I still don't see how it was taken as a joke vote.

[PiggyGal15]

PiggyGal

In Post 32 you say you're always the day one mislynch when you're town, but then in Post 55 you say you only have one completed town game and don't have a meta, but then in Post 63 you talk about the beginning of the game as if you're associated with it and talk about how you can't get reads for several days. I'm facepalming right now. Can you explain to me why you are appealing to a meta at the same time that you are claiming you don't have one? Also, what do you think about the people voting for you right now?

Ongoing games. I do actually have a second completed town game (again, lynched day 1 -_-) but in the site-wide crash last summer the game was destroyed and now it's unreadable and confusing, so I don't even count it. I've also done some chat mafia games, sadly I can't link any cause they get archived and the site deletes the archives every month
I think most of them are just bussing. But everyone busses on day 1 so it's not really a scumtell for me. Will be useful information for a later day though It's kind of me fishing for reactions, but at the same time it's not... that sounds confusing, but if I live till Day 2 or 3 it'll make sense.

[Eidolon]

@ tammy.

Telo: I find that scum are more likely to pretend to blend in, so they will fake scumhunting, rather than just outright ignore it all together. Telo is so out of the loop. This has me leaning slight town on her so far.

Huntress: Her post was earlier on, so it didn’t stick out as much to me. I would like to hear more of her, though I’m still slightly more suspicious of Spring, because at the time she made her post, the game had developed, so there was a lot more to talk about. Her vote just seemed fake especially given the poor reasoning.

I wonder why you say that my attack on spring is more of a personality than affiliation tell, yet you have your vote on huntress for essentially the same reason?

@ Spring: You say talking theory is generally pointless and thus anti-town. But is pointless behavior scummy? Is brandi scum?

You say you don’t understand the sucrose wagon so why not ask some questions about it?

Piggy- wait wait. You say your wagon was bussing you? You know what bussing means, right?

I kind of am just getting newb town vibes from piggy.

I’d like to hear more from CityElectric too. City, how much experience do you have? What is wrong with voting without reason in the initial stages of the game?

[PiggyGal15]

PiggyGal

In Post 32 you say you're always the day one mislynch when you're town, but then in Post 55 you say you only have one completed town game and don't have a meta, but then in Post 63 you talk about the beginning of the game as if you're associated with it and talk about how you can't get reads for several days. I'm facepalming right now. Can you explain to me why you are appealing to a meta at the same time that you are claiming you don't have one? Also, what do you think about the people voting for you right now?

Ongoing games. I do actually have a second completed town game (again, lynched day 1 -_-) but in the site-wide crash last summer the game was destroyed and now it's unreadable and confusing, so I don't even count it. I've also done some chat mafia games, sadly I can't link any cause they get archived and the site deletes the archives every month
I think most of them are just sheeping. But everyone sheeps on day 1 so it's not really a scumtell for me. Will be useful information for a later day though It's kind of me fishing for reactions, but at the same time it's not... that sounds confusing, but if I live till Day 2 or 3 it'll make sense.

FTFM

[flinter]

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall
Your screen name makes me think of boogers

You have got to be kidding me.

VOTE: Eidolon

It took me a little to understand this statement, but DrippingGoofBall has started out great, justifying this response. The problem I see is that after that you'd expect camn to follow up to this. Regardless of allignment she could make this vote. If she would be scum DGB was the person she'd want to buddy up to or stay away from. If she were town she'd focus on DGB as well, discuss what she brought. With this vote she already gives away she's focussed on DGB, she expects stuff from there. The fact that she stays away from DGB makes me think Camn is scum here.

vote camn

[Eidolon]

Flinter, you realize that since that post, camn has only made one post, and it was a vote? So she's essentially stayed away from everyone besides that one person.

Your analysis is speculative, but interesting, and something to keep in mind.

What are your thoughts on the piggy wagon? What about some of the other wagons that popped up? Do you find camns sheep on amrun to be suspicious as well?

[flinter]

I know, but seen in the light that drippinggoofball has given quite some opportunities for people to react to her, I expected more then that lonely vote.

I'm still not sure what to make of piggygals first vote. It's certainly odd, and I could see scum doing it. But I really want to see more there.

[Sucrose]

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall
Your screen name makes me think of boogers

You have got to be kidding me.

VOTE: Eidolon

It took me a little to understand this statement, but DrippingGoofBall has started out great, justifying this response. The problem I see is that after that you'd expect camn to follow up to this. Regardless of allignment she could make this vote. If she would be scum DGB was the person she'd want to buddy up to or stay away from. If she were town she'd focus on DGB as well, discuss what she brought. With this vote she already gives away she's focussed on DGB, she expects stuff from there. The fact that she stays away from DGB makes me think Camn is scum here.

vote camn

What? I'm a little sleepy so maybe I'm just not following you here, but Camn made this RVS vote

before

DGB posted anything. Presumably DGB and Camn have had some games together which caused Camn to RVS vote in reaction to Eidolon smearing (heh) her good name, but other than being a slight indicator that Camn is focused on DGB, I don't see how you can determine

anything

else about Camn from this at this point, since her only other post has been that vote on me. Your sentence "The fact that she stays away from DBG makes me think Camn is scum here." seems to come out of thin air. Camn has only made two posts.

I wouldn't call this analysis speculative

or

interesting, I'd call it completely bizarre. Question: Are you familiar with RVS?

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, DGB, you seem very confident in your reads for such an early stage and you aren't providing much reasoning for them. What is so skecthy about camn? Voting without a reasoning? What is so bad about that...? IT get's pressure going and gets people thinking. What about Seastorms posts are too dingaling for scum?

I reside in camn's brain. I'm picking up hinky vibes. It's meta.

The dingaling business is that I think the post was too careless and not-self-conscious for scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think most of them are just bussing. But everyone busses on day 1 so it's not really a scumtell for me. Will be useful information for a later day though It's kind of me fishing for reactions, but at the same time it's not... that sounds confusing, but if I live till Day 2 or 3 it'll make sense.

WUT

[DrippingGoofball]

Sucrose's #121 re: camn & DGB is correct. It's the sort of ribbing I expect.

Now, Piggy is n00bscum, please stop making excuses.