Newbie 1289 - Game Over!

[buldermar]

@Airick10: Why do you think that Sylvant voted me was odd, when yourself said that voting no lynch in day 1 would put you under the spotlight, aka odd? Besides, voting on someone just adds some pressure and creates a conversation

As I've stated, your no-lynch proposal is a scummy move and it is easy for others to immediately vote you on that alone. It is justifiable at the time. I did not look at that as scummy, rather than you just being a new player putting a proposal on the table. That is why I asked how many games you've played. I find it odd how Sylvant's vote, which I'm pretty sure was random, just happened to be on you after your no-lynch proposal. Vendetta's vote was not random.

If you think he is a new player and that's why he made a no-lynch proposal (null-read), why would it be odd of any one random player to think alike and randomly pick him among the pool of people to vote?

[BT]

I genuinely cannot see why you are being so obstructive to my probing, I'm asking you for your reads, but you're holding your cards close to your chest. I accept that you have a townread on Paper, I just don't see why? Has your position on him been reaffirmed or shaken by their most recent contribution however succinct it was? I need to know why you are doing what you are doing.

She said explaining it is detrimental to the town. It's a

townread

and that's completely understandable. Why is this not enough for you and why is this so important to you?

Yes, you're obviously twisting my words because it tells me something despite being a null with respect to alignment. For instance, it affects how I estimate his alignment based on his future actions. Generally speaking, any sort of profile/information about the players has the potential to become advantageous at a later point despite currently being null. I pointed it out for these reasons.

Fair enough. "Twisting words" is an antagonizing word choice, though.

Obviously on day 1 the only confirmed town when you're town yourself

is

yourself. Hammering yourself (confirmed town lynch) is inferior to not hammering yourself (no lynch) in this setup.

No, when it's either your lynch or No Lynch, you DO want to allow the hammer (self-hammer if you must) because your presence will keep town off track. Can we please

please

drop this theory convo now? It is literally derailing at this point.

I find it odd how Sylvant's vote, which I'm pretty sure was random, just happened to be on you after your no-lynch proposal. Vendetta's vote was not random.

-_- You never answered this:

I do not agree with your [Tierce's] read on Sylvant/ovyo, but it is still early. I do find it odd that Sylvant voted PaperSpirit after PaperSpirit's post about a no-lynch.

You disagree but you find it odd. Which is it? 'Odd' needs elaboration.

[vendetta21]

when scumhunting a player, I need to understand why they're doing what you're doing.

What I don't understand is how Tierce can say something like this, but then go about telling people point-blank the dispositions of others and expecting them to accept that. In this instance we are talking about telling DB that PaperSpirit is obvtown, and telling AirWick that I am null. I would like some clarification here.

Yes, you're obviously twisting my words because it tells me something despite being a null with respect to alignment. For instance, it affects how I estimate his alignment based on his future actions. Generally speaking, any sort of profile/information about the players has the potential to become advantageous at a later point despite currently being null. I pointed it out for these reasons.

You are getting so caught up in little details of logic that are unimportant. You are arguing about whether or not

a thing both of you take the effort to define

is twisting words. Coming to a resolution on a matter like this shouldn't take a back and forth of more than 2 posts unless you are trying to catch BT in a scum-logic-trap, which you don't appear to be. I think you might be scum simply because you are making it so playing this game is incredibly tedious and you are acting as though fully reading and following your arcane and obtuse posts is a litmus test for being town, which it isn't. I don't want to read your crap and I don't see what all your words have accomplished.

I do not believe you can write off Tierce for being on your case about this simply because you have played in a game previous to this with a similar meta. I don't care about your meta, I don't care about whether hammering yourself is inferior to not hammering yourself because

we aren't in that situation

. You are making this game difficult to play, which is in turn making it harder for the town to win, and the bulk of your posts appear to be this silly logic bullshit where you feel the need to get into the nuanced semiotics of "twisting words." And above all this is a

newbie

game, a game that by definition has new players.

I think your sesquipedalian posts are probably a smokescreen. But mostly, I feel like you are focusing on inane topics that have almost nothing to do with the hunt.

VOTE: Buldermar

[Deltabacon]

I genuinely cannot see why you are being so obstructive to my probing, I'm asking you for your reads, but you're holding your cards close to your chest. I accept that you have a townread on Paper, I just don't see why? Has your position on him been reaffirmed or shaken by their most recent contribution however succinct it was? I need to know why you are doing what you are doing.

She said explaining it is detrimental to the town. It's a

townread

and that's completely understandable. Why is this not enough for you and why is this so important to you?

When she said it, Paperspirit had 4 posts which screamed only newbie, as opposed to screaming town. If it gives me a better insight as to how Tierce thinks then damn straight I am going to ask for it. Knowledge denied to town is detrimental, and knowing how Tierce 'Obvtown-ed' Paper within 4 posts, 1 of which was of no game-related content, and three of which were complete nullreads and an analysis of the facts. You ask why it's not enough for me? Because it's screaming scumhood at me, and Tierce's unwillingness to even contribute to other reads in any serious way serves only to reaffirm this. I want to know why, and my vote will be stationary until I find out.

I'm astounded to see that you managed to avoid the entire part of my post devoted to trying to get her to clarify a scumread as well, are you not wanting to know her actual reasoning for continuing to vote for Ovyo?

[Airick10]

You disagree but you find it odd. Which is it? 'Odd' needs elaboration.

This is not a black and white thing. I disagree with Tierce that Sylvant is scum based on his vote. I believe Sylvant's vote was random, but for the timing of the post, the question has to be asked. Player A posts something scummy, Player B votes in what looks like random, Player C votes in what is intentional. Player C is being called out on his actions, why not Player B? Again, I do not look at Sylvant's vote as scummy as Tierce does, but I understand his position and do find it odd that a random vote just happened to be on what was the scummiest post of the game at that time.

[buldermar]

Yes, you're obviously twisting my words because it tells me something despite being a null with respect to alignment. For instance, it affects how I estimate his alignment based on his future actions. Generally speaking, any sort of profile/information about the players has the potential to become advantageous at a later point despite currently being null. I pointed it out for these reasons.

Fair enough. "Twisting words" is an antagonizing word choice, though.

"to restate someone's words inaccurately" http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/twist+words. How is this antagonizing? To me this is exactly what you did.

Obviously on day 1 the only confirmed town when you're town yourself

is

yourself. Hammering yourself (confirmed town lynch) is inferior to not hammering yourself (no lynch) in this setup.

No, when it's either your lynch or No Lynch, you DO want to allow the hammer (self-hammer if you must) because your presence will keep town off track. Can we please

please

drop this theory convo now? It is literally derailing at this point.

You've got to be kidding me.

[buldermar]

when scumhunting a player, I need to understand why they're doing what you're doing.

What I don't understand is how Tierce can say something like this, but then go about telling people point-blank the dispositions of others and expecting them to accept that. In this instance we are talking about telling DB that PaperSpirit is obvtown, and telling AirWick that I am null. I would like some clarification here.

Yes, you're obviously twisting my words because it tells me something despite being a null with respect to alignment. For instance, it affects how I estimate his alignment based on his future actions. Generally speaking, any sort of profile/information about the players has the potential to become advantageous at a later point despite currently being null. I pointed it out for these reasons.

You are getting so caught up in little details of logic that are unimportant. You are arguing about whether or not

a thing both of you take the effort to define

is twisting words. Coming to a resolution on a matter like this shouldn't take a back and forth of more than 2 posts unless you are trying to catch BT in a scum-logic-trap, which you don't appear to be. I think you might be scum simply because you are making it so playing this game is incredibly tedious and you are acting as though fully reading and following your arcane and obtuse posts is a litmus test for being town, which it isn't. I don't want to read your crap and I don't see what all your words have accomplished.

I do not believe you can write off Tierce for being on your case about this simply because you have played in a game previous to this with a similar meta. I don't care about your meta, I don't care about whether hammering yourself is inferior to not hammering yourself because

we aren't in that situation

. You are making this game difficult to play, which is in turn making it harder for the town to win, and the bulk of your posts appear to be this silly logic bullshit where you feel the need to get into the nuanced semiotics of "twisting words." And above all this is a

newbie

game, a game that by definition has new players.

I think your sesquipedalian posts are probably a smokescreen. But mostly, I feel like you are focusing on inane topics that have almost nothing to do with the hunt.

VOTE: Buldermar

Here is a writing tip: you want to be careful about ironic incongruities. As you may not yet have noticed, the word "sesquipedalian" is self-descriptive, i.e., it is sesquipedalian. Much of the same can be said for "obtuse", a word the majority probably don't understand. So it is somewhat absurd, isn't it, to pose as a champion of "common language" while explicitly deploring "sesquipedalian posts" and "arcane and obtuse posts [that] is a litmus test for being town"? That's a bit like deploring obesity between commercials for soap opera while eating chocolate bonbons as your exercise videos gather dust atop your television.

[vendetta21]

when scumhunting a player, I need to understand why they're doing what you're doing.

What I don't understand is how Tierce can say something like this, but then go about telling people point-blank the dispositions of others and expecting them to accept that. In this instance we are talking about telling DB that PaperSpirit is obvtown, and telling AirWick that I am null. I would like some clarification here.

Yes, you're obviously twisting my words because it tells me something despite being a null with respect to alignment. For instance, it affects how I estimate his alignment based on his future actions. Generally speaking, any sort of profile/information about the players has the potential to become advantageous at a later point despite currently being null. I pointed it out for these reasons.

You are getting so caught up in little details of logic that are unimportant. You are arguing about whether or not

a thing both of you take the effort to define

is twisting words. Coming to a resolution on a matter like this shouldn't take a back and forth of more than 2 posts unless you are trying to catch BT in a scum-logic-trap, which you don't appear to be. I think you might be scum simply because you are making it so playing this game is incredibly tedious and you are acting as though fully reading and following your arcane and obtuse posts is a litmus test for being town, which it isn't. I don't want to read your crap and I don't see what all your words have accomplished.

I do not believe you can write off Tierce for being on your case about this simply because you have played in a game previous to this with a similar meta. I don't care about your meta, I don't care about whether hammering yourself is inferior to not hammering yourself because

we aren't in that situation

. You are making this game difficult to play, which is in turn making it harder for the town to win, and the bulk of your posts appear to be this silly logic bullshit where you feel the need to get into the nuanced semiotics of "twisting words." And above all this is a

newbie

game, a game that by definition has new players.

I think your sesquipedalian posts are probably a smokescreen. But mostly, I feel like you are focusing on inane topics that have almost nothing to do with the hunt.

VOTE: Buldermar

Here is a writing tip: you want to be careful about ironic incongruities. As you may not yet have noticed, the word "sesquipedalian" is self-descriptive, i.e., it is sesquipedalian. Much of the same can be said for "obtuse", a word the majority probably don't understand. So it is somewhat absurd, isn't it, to pose as a champion of "common language" while explicitly deploring "sesquipedalian posts" and "arcane and obtuse posts [that] is a litmus test for being town"? That's a bit like deploring obesity between commercials for soap opera while eating chocolate bonbons as your exercise videos gather dust atop your television.

I was making a display to show that it isn't hard to shit out a thesaurus, to make your posts more complicated than they need to be. My supposed hypocrisy here is not for the major content of my posts, but instead is about word choice. Why is this scummy? You continue to focus on inane topics, completely ignoring the fact that it's what I called you out for. That post isn't a call from the champion of common language, it's a post written and directed intimately towards you.

So let's draw back to the original example: what does a person's opinion on self-hammering tell you about their alignment? I agree with Tierce and RedRabbit on this issue. What does knowing this information about me tell you that you feel the need to discuss it in more than ten posts?

[Deltabacon]

Mod, may I ask you to prod Tierce, please?

[Tierce]

I'm here. I'll address this game tonight, worry not.

[Tierce]

Nevermind, that shall happen tomorrow. Let's try to do it before nightfall at any rate.

[Deltabacon]

This game needs so much more activity. If no-one contributes, then scum can safely hide amongst the lurkers, which sucks because then we're scuppered.

Basically guys, start posting.

[PaperSpirit]

Well, I don't really anyone acting suspicious, so should we just start pressuring someone?

[buldermar]

when scumhunting a player, I need to understand why they're doing what you're doing.

What I don't understand is how Tierce can say something like this, but then go about telling people point-blank the dispositions of others and expecting them to accept that. In this instance we are talking about telling DB that PaperSpirit is obvtown, and telling AirWick that I am null. I would like some clarification here.

Yes, you're obviously twisting my words because it tells me something despite being a null with respect to alignment. For instance, it affects how I estimate his alignment based on his future actions. Generally speaking, any sort of profile/information about the players has the potential to become advantageous at a later point despite currently being null. I pointed it out for these reasons.

You are getting so caught up in little details of logic that are unimportant. You are arguing about whether or not

a thing both of you take the effort to define

is twisting words. Coming to a resolution on a matter like this shouldn't take a back and forth of more than 2 posts unless you are trying to catch BT in a scum-logic-trap, which you don't appear to be. I think you might be scum simply because you are making it so playing this game is incredibly tedious and you are acting as though fully reading and following your arcane and obtuse posts is a litmus test for being town, which it isn't. I don't want to read your crap and I don't see what all your words have accomplished.

I do not believe you can write off Tierce for being on your case about this simply because you have played in a game previous to this with a similar meta. I don't care about your meta, I don't care about whether hammering yourself is inferior to not hammering yourself because

we aren't in that situation

. You are making this game difficult to play, which is in turn making it harder for the town to win, and the bulk of your posts appear to be this silly logic bullshit where you feel the need to get into the nuanced semiotics of "twisting words." And above all this is a

newbie

game, a game that by definition has new players.

I think your sesquipedalian posts are probably a smokescreen. But mostly, I feel like you are focusing on inane topics that have almost nothing to do with the hunt.

VOTE: Buldermar

Here is a writing tip: you want to be careful about ironic incongruities. As you may not yet have noticed, the word "sesquipedalian" is self-descriptive, i.e., it is sesquipedalian. Much of the same can be said for "obtuse", a word the majority probably don't understand. So it is somewhat absurd, isn't it, to pose as a champion of "common language" while explicitly deploring "sesquipedalian posts" and "arcane and obtuse posts [that] is a litmus test for being town"? That's a bit like deploring obesity between commercials for soap opera while eating chocolate bonbons as your exercise videos gather dust atop your television.

I was making a display to show that it isn't hard to shit out a thesaurus, to make your posts more complicated than they need to be. My supposed hypocrisy here is not for the major content of my posts, but instead is about word choice. Why is this scummy? You continue to focus on inane topics, completely ignoring the fact that it's what I called you out for. That post isn't a call from the champion of common language, it's a post written and directed intimately towards you.

So let's draw back to the original example: what does a person's opinion on self-hammering tell you about their alignment? I agree with Tierce and RedRabbit on this issue. What does knowing this information about me tell you that you feel the need to discuss it in more than ten posts?

This is exactly how I thought you'd attempt to rationalize your ironic incongruity. You've not previously expressed your dislike of the ongoing discussion between Tierce and I, or your dislike of my way of playing. Out of nowhere, in a rabbit-out-of-the-hat sort of way, you compile a bunch of bullshit accusations and deliver them wrapped in fine words to (in my opinion) compensate for the fact that it's bullshit. And now you're asking me questions related specifically to the discussion, the ongoing of which was one of your main reasons for voting me? This is almost exactly what BT did in post 101. Yes, I think it's scummy to contribute to the ongoing of a discussion you pretend to want stopped, and I think it's incredible scummy to come out firering with red herrings the way you did without previously having requested anything or expressed anything related to the matter. I think you saw me as an easy target and took the opportunity to attempt to justify a vote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: vendetta21

[izakthegoomba]

Votecount 1.03

vendetta21 (4) - BT, ovyo, Airick10, buldermar
Tierce (2) - Deltabacon, RedRabbit
ovyo (1) - Tierce
buldermar (1) - vendetta21
Airick10 (0) -

none

BT (0) -

none

PaperSpirit (0) -

none

Deltabacon (0) -

none

RedRabbit (0) -

none

No Lynch (1) - PaperSpirit

Not voting (0) -

none

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline: (expired on 2012-10-18 11:36:09)

[buldermar]

This game needs so much more activity. If no-one contributes, then scum can safely hide amongst the lurkers, which sucks because then we're scuppered.

Basically guys, start posting.

I don't know that this is of any help, but I think your case against Tierce avoidance of explaining her read on PaperSpirit is reasonable. I especially think the tone and message of post 65 is uncalled for, and suboptimal from a theoretical perspective (I'm not going to elaborate on the last part for reasons that should be obvious). If there is anything you want my opinion on, let me know.

[buldermar]

Oh, and vendetta21 is L1, so ask for claim before voting.

[BT]

Getting stuff out of the way first.

When she said it, Paperspirit had 4 posts which screamed only newbie, as opposed to screaming town. If it gives me a better insight as to how Tierce thinks then damn straight I am going to ask for it. Knowledge denied to town is detrimental, and knowing how Tierce 'Obvtown-ed' Paper within 4 posts, 1 of which was of no game-related content, and three of which were complete nullreads and an analysis of the facts. You ask why it's not enough for me? Because it's screaming scumhood at me, and Tierce's unwillingness to even contribute to other reads in any serious way serves only to reaffirm this. I want to know why, and my vote will be stationary until I find out.

What will happen

after

she explains her

page 2 townread

? Seriously, this ISN'T as critical as you're making it out to be. Her explanation won't do much of anything. If it helps, I'm clearing PaperSpirit from his page 1 posts as well. Denying this information isn't anti-town because PaperSpirit isn't and wasn't ever in danger of being lynched. As Tierce said, if it DOES happen, THEN explaining it will be relevant to anything at all.

I'm astounded to see that you managed to avoid the entire part of my post devoted to trying to get her to clarify a scumread as well, are you not wanting to know her actual reasoning for continuing to vote for Ovyo?

Just because I replied to that one part doesn't mean I disagree with the rest of your post.

You disagree but you find it odd. Which is it? 'Odd' needs elaboration.

This is not a black and white thing. I disagree with Tierce that Sylvant is scum based on his vote. I believe Sylvant's vote was random, but for the timing of the post, the question has to be asked. Player A posts something scummy, Player B votes in what looks like random, Player C votes in what is intentional. Player C is being called out on his actions, why not Player B? Again, I do not look at Sylvant's vote as scummy as Tierce does, but I understand his position and do find it odd that a random vote just happened to be on what was the scummiest post of the game at that time.

It's not black and white but I have no idea what your stance is here. Also, Tierce voting Sylvant/Ovyo over vendetta is a solid point; I am not arguing about that.

Fair enough. "Twisting words" is an antagonizing word choice, though.

"to restate someone's words inaccurately" http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/twist+words. How is this antagonizing? To me this is exactly what you did.

This is twisting your words:

buldermar said that it tells him nothing

This is not:

it tells buldermar nothing

It happens that what I did was the

latter

, not the former, so I was stating MY opinion, not twisting YOUR words. Any questions?

No, when it's either your lynch or No Lynch, you DO want to allow the hammer (self-hammer if you must) because your presence will keep town off track. Can we please

please

drop this theory convo now? It is literally derailing at this point.

You've got to be kidding me.

If you No Lynch, chances are you will STILL be a likely lynch target tomorrow and the result is that the former day pretty much didn't happen at all. So, no, I kid you not.

[BT]

I have stuff to say on vendetta's recent posts but I'll wait for his response first.

[Airick10]

Unvote

I am not comfortable putting Vendetta at L1 just yet. This day has been about theory talk and PaperSpirit's no-lynch post. I think we can get more information before someone hammers.

[BT]

No one is going to hammer.

[buldermar]

Fair enough. "Twisting words" is an antagonizing word choice, though.

"to restate someone's words inaccurately" http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/twist+words. How is this antagonizing? To me this is exactly what you did.

This is twisting your words:

buldermar said that it tells him nothing

This is not:

it tells buldermar nothing

It happens that what I did was the

latter

, not the former, so I was stating MY opinion, not twisting YOUR words. Any questions?

No, when it's either your lynch or No Lynch, you DO want to allow the hammer (self-hammer if you must) because your presence will keep town off track. Can we please

please

drop this theory convo now? It is literally derailing at this point.

You've got to be kidding me.

If you No Lynch, chances are you will STILL be a likely lynch target tomorrow and the result is that the former day pretty much didn't happen at all. So, no, I kid you not.

So this tells you nothing about Airick? Why mention it in the first place?

This is

restating my words inaccurately

. The accurate way of restating my words would be "so this tells you nothing about the alignment of Airick". In the distinction you made, both are cases of twisting my words, assuming that the latter is not presented as a subjective point of view (which you did not).

I said you've got to be kidding me because you asked me to drop this theory convo and in the very same sentence continued it yourself. And now you progress it

despite

the fact that i met your request of stopping it? Seriously, fuck off. Either let me explain why self-hammering is always suboptimal in this setup or stfu.

[buldermar]

No one is going to hammer.

I can only imagine how you could possibly make such conclusion.

[BT]

Scum won't do it, town won't do it, therefore it won't happen.

I kind of hinted at this before, but antagonizing is one thing you don't do as town. I could sum this post up with "what the fuck" or any other similar comment but I'm not going to because it won't be pro-town. I suggest you get your head out of the gutter and focus on your wincon.

[buldermar]

You're making no sense to me. I'm not just saying that - I genuinely don't understand your sentences. It might be a culture thing, will you try rephrasing your intended message?