Mini 253 - Killer7 Mafia: Gameover


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:05 pm

Post by Shiryu »

Right, while MoS claimed role is rather hard to believe, I don't think we should lynch him just yet. And hey, for all we know, he is indeed telling the truth, in which case he would be an invaluable ally for the town.

And now for something completely different!

I've thought it over, and I've made up my mind. Given the number of games I've died early in, the information I have and the fact that we apparently have a reviver (and hopefully a doc as well) I've decided to claim now.

I am Christopher Mills, the cop. I investigated Rainbow Brite last night, and got an anti-town result.

Why did I investigate Rainbow Brite? Basically, I saw the most scummy-looking at the moment, Mastermind of Sin for his claim, and BabyJesus for apparently killing CA, and just didn't feel like going through all the considerations of who would be the better target for investigation. All for the better too, since BJ ended up dead. Rainbow Brite was just a completely random investigation. A hunch if you will.

Do, however keep in mind: I also know that other roles had things to do before I could get a result, which make me think that it could have been affected. Given the randomness of my choice, I want to think that's not the case.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:55 pm

Post by Fritzler »

Cop fits up with Christopher mills, I'm pretty sure he'd be sane, an dwith roles like that, I'm really glad no one liked my mass claim idea.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:24 pm

Post by Shiryu »

Heh, I new I forgot something.

Vote: Rainbow Brite
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:07 pm

Post by RangeroftheNorth »

I guess there is only 1 way to test your sanity.
Vote: Rainbow Brite
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:28 pm

Post by Shiryu »

Yeah, then there's the posibility that I might not be a sane cop. I've got a lot of things working against me here, but I'm just going with what I feel is right.

Oh, and weird thing: Of all the times I looked up Killer 7 to get to know the roles a bit better, the name Christopher Mills never came up. That or he was mentioned seldomly, so I didn't take notice.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:04 am

Post by Rainbow Brite »

Shiryu wrote:I've thought it over, and I've made up my mind. Given the number of games I've died early in, the information I have and the fact that we apparently have a reviver (and hopefully a doc as well) I've decided to claim now.

I am Christopher Mills, the cop. I investigated Rainbow Brite last night, and got an anti-town result.
clumsy lepton, dude.

first things first - you're wrong.

furthermore, your claim stinks, for a number of reasons.

let's have a look at the timing to start -
Assassin wrote:Vote Count:
2 Shiryu - (Coolbot, Fritzler)
1 Fritzler - (RB)
1 Adele (Inhim)
1 MoS (Strykker)
1 Inhim (Commodore)
at the time of your claim, that was still accurate. furthermore, i'd already said this:
Rainbow Brite wrote:
Adele wrote:
Rainbow Brite wrote:yeah, i'm with you on that - especially as she's fishing for the reanimator (about equivalent to the doc, i'd surmise). its similar to the reasons im voting fritz - trying to get more information on the setup - so
fos: adele
and i'd be happy with my vote on either. i'll keep it on fritz for now though.
When did I "fish for the reanimator"? I wondered about BJ's killer, but also said that I reckoned that the reanimator was someone different.
actually, you're right. sorry 'bout that, it was shiryu who was fishing about the reanimator. replace your name and his in my above post.
unfos: adele, fos: shiryu.
- which basically says why i'd be willing to switch my vote to you. the mos questioning-wagon had sorta run out of steam and you were looking like the next inevitable bandwagon, and one with good reasons for suspicion behind it. furthermore, it was a pretty safe bet i'd be on that wagon (the only person you could say that about, really) - and who do you decide to pop up and discredit? what a coincidence.

well, at least you had good reason to investigate me....
Shiryu wrote:Why did I investigate Rainbow Brite? Basically, I saw the most scummy-looking at the moment, Mastermind of Sin for his claim, and BabyJesus for apparently killing CA, and just didn't feel like going through all the considerations of who would be the better target for investigation. All for the better too, since BJ ended up dead. Rainbow Brite was just a completely random investigation. A hunch if you will.
oh wait, no you didn't. there were two people you thought were scummy-looking, but you didn't want to have to think about it... so you randomly selected from all the people you
didn't
think were scummy-looking instead. good plan!
Shiryu wrote:Do, however keep in mind: I also know that other roles had things to do before I could get a result, which make me think that it could have been affected. Given the randomness of my choice, I want to think that's not the case.
oh well, it's a good thing you're warning us that the result might not be reliable, so that after i'm lynched you can feign innocence effectively. oh, and in such a manner that it doesn't necessarily reflect on your sanity too, so you can try the same thing tomorrow! very convenient.

well, at least your actions today so far are consistent with your claim, right?

oh wait, no they're not. the people you were looking at to date were fritz and mos (with admittedly a small poke at inhim and me when i made a reading error). surely, if you "knew" i was scum you'd have been looking mostly at me prior to claiming, rather than coming straight out with a bandwagon-preempting lepton-laced inconsistent-with-your-earlier-play bullshit claim out of nowhere? perhaps?

seriously, dude.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:45 am

Post by Shiryu »

Hey, I was letting the day go on as normal, so tha more information could be gathered. Ignoring the fact that I found you to be guilty, you haven't acted scummy at all. Why would I start attacking someone like that for no reason at all prior to my claim? Fritz and MoS on the other hand, haved looked scummy to me practically since the day began. But I have nothing concrete on them.

I will admit my reason for investigating you is indeed lousy. What can I say, it's just who I am. Lazy for many things, and I like to rely on pure luck for others. You guys said yourself that BJ likes to abuse his powers when he gets to be vigilante, so obviously I'm not the only one that's not using my role the "proper" way. I can also point out that this is my first time playing cop.

If you're so sure of your innocense, Rainbow, why don't you claim as well?

Finally, I don't care how scummy this sounds, it's just what I'm thinking about this whole thing: It's still early game, and I think you can all risk believing me for the moment.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:48 am

Post by Shiryu »

Also, this has nothing to do with the fact that you were suspicious of me. Your reasons for that where perfectly valid. Anyway, if there really were a bandwagon to happen against me, I would just end up making the same claim I've already made.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:18 am

Post by Adele »

Shiryu wrote:Finally, I don't care how scummy this sounds, it's just what I'm thinking about this whole thing: It's still early game, and I think you can all risk believing me for the moment.
By the same token, then, do you believe we can risk
not
believing you? I mean, if we can afford risky play, why not direct it the other way?

Because at first look it appears to me that Rainbow Brite has some good points against you there... especially as regards your reason for investigating her:
Shiryu wrote:I will admit my reason for investigating you is indeed lousy. What can I say, it's just who I am. Lazy for many things, and I like to rely on pure luck for others. You guys said yourself that BJ likes to abuse his powers when he gets to be vigilante, so obviously I'm not the only one that's not using my role the "proper" way. I can also point out that this is my first time playing cop.
That's
your excuse? You're lazy and want to trust to luck? If you are the cop, gosh we've drawn the short straw! Because playing by chance alone wins games for the mafia, not the town. Why not flip a coin over the guys you didn't trust? You can't claim to have foreseen BJ's death. As for the "It's just who I am" comment, I would say that your behaviour is under your control and you have a responsibility to the rest of us.

Sorry if that's overly harsh. It's just that craplogic is a scum tool, and shouldn't be a protown one, but you don't claim to have engaged with logic at all. I trust people when I can understand them, and I don't understand you, Shiryu. And I don't trust you.

The last few posts makes you look more than slightly scummy to me, Shiryu. As far as I'm concerned, either you're telling the truth and Rainbow Brite's scum, or you're lying and you are. There's a chance you're telling the truth but are wrong, but I doubt it to the point I want to discount it. I'm seriously inclined to hold the view that exactly one of the two of you is scum. So I think we need to look at this in terms of, is it 50-50? Which way does it lean? At this point, I'd say against Shiryu. But say it is 50-50. Who's more potentially useful to the town if innocent?

If you're telling the truth then you have a power role but are, by your own admission, lazy and foolish.
Rainbow Brite, contrastingly, has shown exemplary play (indeed you can point to no scummy acts - when you say "hunch", do you mean "complete shot in the dark?), and explains herself step by step. She plays logically, and her analysis skills alone can be a useful tool for town.

What you've said, Shiryu, doesn't make sense to me. Rainbow Brite doesn't show the same flaw. At least I know she won't try to wriggle out of trouble by asking us not to expect her behaviour to make sense.
unfos, fos:Shiryu


btw, Rainbow, I'm assuming your preferred pronoun here is feminine. Is that cool?
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:11 pm

Post by Fritzler »

Hey brite, can I hear your claim? (considering it is between the two of you now like Adele said)

I need something to decide. I"ll admit I"m leaning against shiryu, but, I can't read brite, so we'll see.

also, Adele, you're Seol's sister, right?
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:30 pm

Post by Adele »

Fritzler wrote:also, Adele, you're Seol's sister, right?
Yeah, guilty as charged. And for those who don't know, Seol=Rainbow Brite. If you see a similarity in our playing styles, it's down to that. If, on the other hand, you think I'll defend him because of that, check out Newbie 150; I owe him badness :twisted: but town comes first :evil:. Although my first vote of the game could
poss
ibly have been an OMGUS.

And for those of you who haven't played him before, Fritzler's right, he is darn hard to read. The downside to that is obvious, but the upside less so. He's hard to read because he refuses to engage in craplogic, so if he says "that doesn't make sense", he's usually right. Frankly, I like playing with/against someone I can hold to that standard.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:04 pm

Post by Fritzler »

Just wondering, did he ever have gender confusion as a child? :P
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:08 pm

Post by Adele »

heh. Nah, something to do with some reanimation under a new name in some game, and he wanted people to not guess which was him...
Pity, really, because if I had, say, photos of him in a Rainbow Brite outfit, that would be
really useful
blackmail material.
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:09 pm

Post by Fritzler »

Adele wrote:heh. Nah, something to do with some reanimation under a new name in some game, and he wanted people to not guess which was him...
Pity, really, because if I had, say, photos of him in a Rainbow Brite outfit, that would be
really useful
blackmail material.
Well, I knew that's where he originally got the name, I was just wondering if there was something deeper behind it.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:06 pm

Post by Shiryu »

That's just who I am, and I have no intention of changing anytime soon. Be glad I don't apply that to mafia games in general, as I do always think througly about who I vote for. But yes, investigating Rainbow was practically a shot in the dark.

Also think about this: This being a game were actual roles AREN'T revealed, I'm most likely the only one that can actually get information about who is pro-town and who isn't. You've got more to lose by lynching me than lynching Rainbow. Unless Rainbow claims something equally useful, in which case she'd be lying.

And you know what? I think I'll be making this my cop strategy from now on. I can avoid WIFOM situations with mafia this way, all the while being consistent.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:38 am

Post by Adele »

Shiryu wrote:You've got more to lose by lynching me than lynching Rainbow. Unless Rainbow claims something equally useful, in which case she'd be lying.
Unless
you're
lying. You've yet to give us good reason to discount that possibility.

Even assuming you're telling the truth (which I am
so
not doing yet), in a game where all players have a power role, I'd think twice before claiming my unique usefulness to the town. There's no reason to believe you are the only cop, or the sane one.

Since it's Thanksgiving weekend, some of the players here aren't in a position to counter-claim. So I'm not acting against either of you... yet. At this rate, I predict that it'll be you, Shiryu, who'll get my vote. But that's not going to happen anytime soon.

And about your playing style:
Shiryu wrote:That's just who I am, and I have no intention of changing anytime soon.
Why on earth not?
If you ARE telling the truth, your random behaviour hurt the town, because it makes it really tough to trust information that would otherwise be really valuable.
Shiryu wrote:And you know what? I think I'll be making this my cop strategy from now on.
Please please please don't. That seems like a really bad idea to me - could someone who's been a cop add their thoughts?
Shiryu wrote:I can avoid WIFOM situations with mafia this way
What kind of WIFOM? Assuming you get proven, choose someone to investigate and they turn out guilty. What are you suggesting that they would then do?
Shiryu wrote:all the while being consistent.
Yes, Shiryu, but not in a good way.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:10 am

Post by Shiryu »

Adele wrote:
Shiryu wrote:You've got more to lose by lynching me than lynching Rainbow. Unless Rainbow claims something equally useful, in which case she'd be lying.
Unless
you're
lying. You've yet to give us good reason to discount that possibility.

Even assuming you're telling the truth (which I am
so
not doing yet), in a game where all players have a power role, I'd think twice before claiming my unique usefulness to the town. There's no reason to believe you are the only cop, or the sane one.
I meant that in the hypothetical case that you lynched the wrong person. In this particular game of mafia, my role is very useful. I obviously don't know about what other roles there are, but the only one that comes to mind that would be just as, if not more useful, is this potential reviver, which even then I'm sure has his limits.
Adele wrote: What kind of WIFOM? Assuming you get proven, choose someone to investigate and they turn out guilty. What are you suggesting that they would then do?
I've seen this happen often enough. A good town member plays badly and ends up looking very suspicious. Obviously the cop must investigate. The mafia then kill this town member, rendering that night's investigation useless.

And yeeeeees, the more I think about it, the more determined I am. Just call me Shiryu, the unpredictable sleuth! Who will I investigate next? You don't know! It's always a gamble when Shiryu the cop is around! :D

My only mistake clearly was claiming so early.
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:54 pm

Post by Fritzler »

I really don't claiming early is that bad. Especially with a resurector and a potential doc in this game.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:14 pm

Post by Shiryu »

It's not that. The problem is that I claimed early when investigating someone at random. Apparently I lose credibility because of that. So from now on, what I have to do is claim after I have several results.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:01 am

Post by Assasin »

Vote Count:

3 Shiryu
- (Coolbot, Fritzler, RB)
2 Rainbow Brite
- (Shiryu, ROTN)
1 Adele
(Inhim)
1 MoS
(Strykker)
1 Inhim
(Commodore)
0 No Lynch


3 Not Voting:
(Warpdragon, Adele, MoS)

Here's an up to date vote count.

With 11 it's 6 to lynch.
I will eventually kill you all.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:43 am

Post by StrykkerVerde »

Unvote
I still don't buy MoS's story, but hell, it's potentially provable.

In any case we have cop that hasn't been counterclaimed that has given us the name of a scum that hasn't claim her role.

I'd say it's pretty open and shut, however i'm still willing to sit back for a while to let others check in with (or without) counterclaims before we move on with this lynching.
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:44 am

Post by Rainbow Brite »

Fritzler wrote:Hey brite, can I hear your claim? (considering it is between the two of you now like Adele said)

I need something to decide. I"ll admit I"m leaning against shiryu, but, I can't read brite, so we'll see.
ok then, seeing as it looks like that's the way this is going, im travis bell. im a rolename investigator. last night i investigated mastermind of sin. he's travis bell.
Strykkerverde wrote:
Unvote
I still don't buy MoS's story, but hell, it's potentially provable.
see above.
Strykkerverde wrote:In any case we have cop that hasn't been counterclaimed that has given us the name of a scum that hasn't claim her role.
well maybe if you'd given me a chance - i responded with my claim as soon as someone asked for it. people tend to forget that
claiming isn't a defence
.
Shiryu wrote:Also think about this: This being a game were actual roles AREN'T revealed, I'm most likely the only one that can actually get information about who is pro-town and who isn't. You've got more to lose by lynching me than lynching Rainbow. Unless Rainbow claims something equally useful, in which case she'd be lying.
see, this is the reason why it's good for scum to claim out-of-the-blue - they get their claim in first. am i equally as useful as you? well, i dunno. if fritz is right about being able to work out abilities from name-claims, then i might well be. i'm certainly capable of catching people in lies.
Shiryu wrote:And you know what? I think I'll be making this my cop strategy from now on. I can avoid WIFOM situations with mafia this way, all the while being consistent.
you can also tailor your claimed "investigations" to suit your purposes as and when you need to, and fail to maximise the chances of hitting scum because you don't bother to investigate suspicious people.

in summary:

firstly, shiryu is lying.
secondly, the circumstances of his claim are highly dubious on multiple counts.
thirdly, he is pointing at another investigative role.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:53 am

Post by Shiryu »

A rolename investigator, eh? I'm guessing saying that MoS has the same role as you was a typo? Anyway, it does sound like a useful ability to have, though honestly I'd place it slightly below the cop in usefulness. Now here's the thing: You're probably telling the truth Rainbow; I could definitely see a role like that working against the town.
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:03 am

Post by Rainbow Brite »

Shiryu wrote:A rolename investigator, eh? I'm guessing saying that MoS has the same role as you was a typo?
no, i got his rolename as being travis bell. that's because i investigated myself, because my ability was reflected.

duh.
Shiryu wrote:Anyway, it does sound like a useful ability to have, though honestly I'd place it slightly below the cop in usefulness.
well, yeah, that's because cop is about the most useful role there is. that's why it's a good claim for scum under pressure, because it often fishes out the real cop, and thus allows the scum to kill them, or at least makes you look "too valuable to lynch".
Shiryu wrote:Now here's the thing: You're probably telling the truth Rainbow; I could definitely see a role like that working against the town.
you could say that about most roles. not about the cop, true, but then the scum already know who's innocent and who's guilty (sk aside) so they don't need one. pretty much every other role i can think of has been a scum role at some point.
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:03 am

Post by Adele »

Shiryu wrote:A rolename investigator, eh? I'm guessing saying that MoS has the same role as you was a typo?
Um, have you forgotten the role that MoS claimed? A role reflector, so if a cop investigates him, they'll get the truth about themself. Rainbow's saying that MoS was telling the truth.

Rainbow's also putting herself on the line, supporting someone. It looks to me like if we lynch any of MoS, Shiryu or Rainbow Brite today, we'll learn something about the other two, although it's possible that MoS is nice, Rainbow's nasty and is playing WIFOM. But I'm not inclined to believe that.
Rainbow Brite wrote:
Shiryu wrote:And you know what? I think I'll be making this my cop strategy from now on. I can avoid WIFOM situations with mafia this way, all the while being consistent.
you can also tailor your claimed "investigations" to suit your purposes as and when you need to, and fail to maximise the chances of hitting scum because you don't bother to investigate suspicious people.
Do you have a reply to this point, Shiryu?
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