Newbie 1356 (OVER)

[Mist7676]

Wow we have a bunch of uptight people in here 4 pages prob about 15 posts by me and that's too much and harming the town. Nice....... Can't see how in 4 pages anyone could possibly actually be 'harming' the town. If I had only posted once or twice. Would you guys have had some huge leads then? No it's day 1 with 4 pages.

For me I'd say mist is my only mafia target at the moment. Covering it up by calling it a policy lynch etc even though its 3 pages in etc. just mafia covering for poor reasoning really IMO.[/b]

In terms on that meta thing varsoon I would really care enough to do that. Every game is different and I'd never actually look at other people's previous games. As while they could be useful I am sure people do that to trick people. They say oh look that's what I'm like etc or act different to their advantage. Eg they could say look how I was when I was scum in this game nothing like I am in this current game etc

I don't like this post. Hey gets personal and attacks us for placing votes on him. Then lashes out and calls a few people scum.

What exactly have you done thats helpful to the town RC?? Bitch and moan. Are you that person that no one used to talk to and bitch and moan to their imaginary friend that they are so much better than everyone else.

See, this is taking it personal and attacking RC, don't do that.

Obviously when RC claimed cop it was a joke during RVS, and PP did it once. In almost all of your previous post you made some type of "scum slip".

[Mutleyddmc]

Of course it was a joke during RVS. However I was just showing that he hasn't exactly been helpful as lots are accusing me of not being.

''Calls lots of people scum''

Pretty sure I only said you are my ONLY mafia target. So some becomes one?

It's not personal because I know nothing about RC. Other than he posts on the same forum as me. Therefore I cannot actually get personal because I know no personal information.

[Mutleyddmc]

You also don't answer my question that you would have some huge leads if it wasn't for me?? Why don't you want to answer questions that isn't very helpful. At least I answer questions even if they are jokey scumslips.

Also slips imply I slipped up. Where as I have intentionally posted everything. What scum would seriously say you will get killed tonight etc

[Mutleyddmc]

Ahh I hate not being able to edit, as I always think of things after so again apologize for the triple post!

You say I attack people for voting me. I haven't attacked people for voting me. I don't care if people vote me. I was attacking the fact that you guys are so against what I have done, yet in reality no one has done much different.

IE posted fluff, jokes and random questions. I have just done it in a more antagonistic way.

[Varsoon]

sorry should have posted it before. So when I joke about being scum its harmful to town. When pyro does it its fine and not the same?

This. There's a fair deal of hypocrisy in this game.

Wow we have a bunch of uptight people in here 4 pages prob about 15 posts by me and that's too much and harming the town. Nice....... Can't see how in 4 pages anyone could possibly actually be 'harming' the town. If I had only posted once or twice. Would you guys have had some huge leads then? No it's day 1 with 4 pages.

For me I'd say mist is my only mafia target at the moment. Covering it up by calling it a policy lynch etc even though its 3 pages in etc. just mafia covering for poor reasoning really IMO.

In terms on that meta thing varsoon I would really care enough to do that. Every game is different and I'd never actually look at other people's previous games. As while they could be useful I am sure people do that to trick people. They say oh look that's what I'm like etc or act different to their advantage. Eg they could say look how I was when I was scum in this game nothing like I am in this current game etc

I disagree, it's quite easy to completely alter the flow of the game within the first four pages. I wish that players would realize RVS isn't eons long and ends as soon as anyone makes worthwhile plays and that, as a pro-town player, people should try to make such plays.

I'm leaning scum on Mist, too.

I also agree that meta'ing a player is a poor method of ISO'ing them. People will play differently under different circumstances and assuming a modernist approach to identity simply doesn't work in a game of rhetoric that has every player review their words before posting them.

As far as your other posts go, I wouldn't make such personal attacks on other players regardless of alignment.

I'm fairly certain RadiantCowbells is town, and I'm leaning town on you, too, due to your responses.

Regardless of Mutley being scum or not, everyone shouldn't forget that there are two scum players in the game.
I suggest we find good evidence of another one--one who is likely on Mutley's wagon.

As far as thinking things over, just hit preview before you submit. Re-read your post, and if you've thought of new things to add, do it then. That way, you don't clutter discussion with several posts back-to-back. I'm guilty of this, too, though.

[Mutleyddmc]

No that sadly won't help Varsoon it's more things pop into my head while I start doing other things. I am bad at concentrating, so while I am writing a post here I am thinking about work. While I am working I think about stuff on here or else where.
Thats where I suddenly realise other stuff I want to say but have already posted. So really I suppose I should preview go away for a bit and then post.

[Varsoon]

I'd like to hear from Zaggoth and DDDP on why they still have votes on Mutley, and if/why they think he should still be the D1 lynch.
Especially since neither have posted much since voting on him.

I'm suspicious of Mist, especially since she seems so adamant to keep this wagon rolling. Could just be town doing the whole scumhunting thing. Mist, how do you feel about lynching Mutley D1--do you think it's stupid to have a player at L-1 when two of the votes on him were parked there and the players who made them (DDDP and Zaggoth) haven't posted since? What do you think will happen if he flips town? What if he flips scum?

[Varsoon]

As of now, I am not convinced that Mutley is scum. Why?
He hasn't led a wagon on a single player, nor has he strongly advocated lynching anyone.
The only player that he's given a scum-read on is Mist, but his vote is still parked on Shaboos despite it seeming more like an RVS vote/reaction test.

Honestly, he's done the most pro-town work so far, because by scumbluffing like he has, the other players have responded in a myriad of ways. Even if he is scum, this has given good reads and taken the game in a solid direction that was necessary during RVS.

Regardless, I wouldn't rule him out as scum so quickly, but I'd prefer to lynch a scum-candidate whose flip would do something more constructive for the game.

[Zoggoth]

Sorry, been a bit busy, I will read through the whole thing and come back with some reads.

[Zoggoth]

just realized mutley is at [L-1] so

unvote:

until I've read through the whole thread thoroughly.

I'm not really comfortable leaving it open to a hammer by a noob or a scum claiming a policy lynch. particularly as it doesn't look like he's gonna respond to pressure in a helpful way. (everything he does looks like possible scumslip anyway)

[Messiah]

Newbie 1356 - Vote Count 1.6

---

Mutleyddmc [L-2]

- Debonair Danny DiPietro, Mist7676, dexter9264
Varsoon [L-4] - Paid Pyro
RadiantCowbells [L-4] - shaboostein
shaboostein [L-4] - Mutleyddmc
Paid Pyro [L-4] - Varsoon

Not Voting (2):

, RadiantCowbells, Zoggoth

With nine alive it takes

five

to lynch.

---

Deadline:

(expired on 2013-04-24 20:00:00)

[Mutleyddmc]

just realized mutley is at [L-1] so

unvote:

until I've read through the whole thread thoroughly.

I'm not really comfortable leaving it open to a hammer by a noob or a scum claiming a policy lynch. particularly as it doesn't look like he's gonna respond to pressure in a helpful way. (everything he does looks like possible scumslip anyway)

I know you havent read it all yet. However since halfway through last page and this page. I wouldn't say I have put any scum slips in?

[Zoggoth]

Varsoon:

Seems to be acting very sensibly by stopping a possible bad lynch. I find it slightly odd at how little it took for arguments to start between you and DDDP and PP, so this makes me slightly suspicious, as it looks more like bussing than mafia arguing with town, but I wont take this as a scum read until I have better reads of the two people you're arguing with. So he's a town read atm.

Dexter:

I think that he was slightly heavy towards IC/SE lynch early on, but it looks honest to me (if he is scum, then I would guess that the other scum would be newbie as well, it just doesn't look like a bus to me). I definitely don't agree with his [L-1] vote on mutley, it seems a little too dangerous to me, and I think only one of mutley's wagon is scum (it would be too risky to have both scum on there, as mutley flipping town would incriminate both of them), and it looks far too easy for a scum-hammer to be justified by policy lynch. However I have a null read on him, as the vote could still be town motivated (mutley isn't being particularly helpful).

RadientCowbells:

His ISO is very telling, almost no actual content, and a huge amount of complaining about inactivity. Also seems to be very cautious about being involved in the mutley wagon, so I've got a slight scum read on him. (I admit that his ISO is very similar to mine, but at least I've answered questions with some significant content).

Mutleyddmc:

Lots of scum tells (Posting a lot with very little content other than trying to defend himself, trying to look like he is making a contribution, without helping town at all, faking(?) not caring about being lynched, muddying the water with all his joke scum claims) but somehow I'm having trouble imagining a scummutley. I'm going to have to say that unless he starts posting some actual useful content then I will put his vote on him again, deliberately not helping town is a scum tell in my opinion, and I don't want to have him sticking around the whole game making it difficult for the rest of us.

Shaboostein:

a little bit inactive so far, currently a null tell, I would be interested to see what they post now that they're back.

poke

Mist7676:

Lots of interesting discussion early on, about the IC lynch. I'm not sure whether I agree with her mutley vote at the moment, I feel a bit more justification is needed, but really that would need some actual content on mutleys part. currently a bit of a null tell.

Paid Pyro:

Has done very little so far other than have a go at Varsoon and RC, with not a lot of content himself. Still has his vote from RVS down, without a lot of justification, would you mind explaining? So far slight scum read, but their response to this question could very easily change this.

DDDP:

I'm not going to wade into the rights and wrongs of his argument with Varsoon, but to be honest it looks like town vs. town to me, from his other posts I am getting a weak town read, but I can't help feeling that this is just because he keeps mentioning that he is town.

Overall, if I had to lynch someone right now then I would choose mutley, he may not be playing for scum, but he is certainly not playing for town, and he could easily become just as dangerous as another scum later on if he continues to play like this. However, I'm not going to place my vote on him quite yet, as I want to give another chance to make an argument other than 'I'm town and anyone who says otherwise is automatically scum', also, I would like to hear his justification for keeping his vote on shaboostein from tail-end of RVS.

Other scum tells for me are PP and RC, but I really need more posts from them before I will be comfortable voting for them, so I will be keeping my vote for now.

Oh, almost forgot:

Zoggoth:

Obviously the towniest of the town tells, and completely wonderful and helpful in every way. Doesn't even need any justification.

[Varsoon]

Good reads, Zoggoth, this is a good example of how to produce reads and what they should look like.

With that, you're definitely more town in my book.

Right now, I'm largely null on most of you, leaning town on Mutley, Mist, Zoggoth, and DDDP.
Leaning scum on Paid Pyro, and with the points that Zoggoth made about Dexter, I'm suspecting him as well.

[Mutleyddmc]

Varsoon may I ask what has changed since post 104 where you say you are leaning scum on mist yet your latest post is leaning town. She hasn't posted since so maybe you looked back and saw something?

[Varsoon]

Varsoon may I ask what has changed since post 104 where you say you are leaning scum on mist yet your latest post is leaning town. She hasn't posted since so maybe you looked back and saw something?

In light of Zoggoth's reads, I went back and re-evaluated a couple of players. While Mist seemed scum to me at first for pushing your wagon along, I thought about it more and her reactions seemed to come from the perspective of an annoyed town rather than manipulative scum. Either way, it's one of the reads I'm iffier about, so I'll be on the fence until more posts are made.

Good catch, though. This sort of post is way more productive than scumbluffing or insulting another player, or, at the very least, is more effective where we are in the game. I feel like the way you played earlier, while seemingly-scummy, also moved the game forward a lot and it was an effective play at the time, but now that we have information to springboard from, everyone should play more carefully and spend time analyzing what others have posted.

[Mutleyddmc]

This is normally what I try to get going. However in the last game it lasted the whole game as there was a bit if a personality clash with xiao. So it was more personal. I'm really bad on day 1 at reading people so I usually try to be the antagonist which sometimes works and other times doesn't.

[Mist7676]

Ok, I am agreeing with Varsoon. The play has up'ed a bit. At the first few posts of Mutley's I wouldn't have voted, but the fact it persisted as we made our way out of RVS, made me place a vote.

By personal attacks, I mean

What exactly have you done thats helpful to the town RC?? Bitch and moan. Are you that person that no one used to talk to and bitch and moan to their imaginary friend that they are so much better than everyone else.

Yeah. Umm, what question did you ask me? I must have missed it.

I'd like to hear from Zaggoth and DDDP on why they still have votes on Mutley, and if/why they think he should still be the D1 lynch.
Especially since neither have posted much since voting on him.

I'm suspicious of Mist, especially since she seems so adamant to keep this wagon rolling. Could just be town doing the whole scumhunting thing. Mist, how do you feel about lynching Mutley D1--do you think it's stupid to have a player at L-1 when two of the votes on him were parked there and the players who made them (DDDP and Zaggoth) haven't posted since? What do you think will happen if he flips town? What if he flips scum?

Activity is a bit low, you cannot deny that. At this point, mutley is seeming a bit townier and I am starting to like his posts. If he flipped town, I'd imagine suspicion would fall onto the wagon voters. If he flips scum, first a celebration would be held, along with some champagne, then poking at others on the wagon. I defiantly see an opportunity for a scum partner to have jumped on this wagon. It could have been a way for getting town points. Even though I was on it myself :3

unvote

I'll do a few reads later. Especially want to look into Varsoon's Paid Pyro scum read.

[RadiantCowbells]

Vote: Mutley

[dexter9264]

Dexter: I think that he was slightly heavy towards IC/SE lynch early on, but it looks honest to me (if he is scum, then I would guess that the other scum would be newbie as well, it just doesn't look like a bus to me). I definitely don't agree with his [L-1] vote on mutley, it seems a little too dangerous to me, and I think only one of mutley's wagon is scum (it would be too risky to have both scum on there, as mutley flipping town would incriminate both of them), and it looks far too easy for a scum-hammer to be justified by policy lynch. However I have a null read on him, as the vote could still be town motivated (mutley isn't being particularly helpful).

I've already explained, its just cause I remember getting absolutely dominated in an IRL mafia game by a dude that was the most experienced of me and my friends.

As for my vote on Mutley, yes it was dangerous. I meant it to be dangerous. The way I saw it, Mutley wasn't gonna start posting actual stuff unless he had significant pressure on him. He needed to be put at L-1. In the case that someone hammered, we would know that the hammerer is scum. If he self hammered, then good riddance. Wouldn't want someone that would self hammer here anyways.

Now that his posts are much better, Im going to go ahead and remove my vote, Whether it was my vote that made him stop or something else, I have no idea. But I will say that my vote did help in that.

unvote

As for Radiant's vote above, wtf is that. Just votes Mutley with no reasoning, and also its pretty strong OMGUS.

Vote: RadiantCowbells

[Mutleyddmc]

Ok, I am agreeing with Varsoon. The play has up'ed a bit. At the first few posts of Mutley's I wouldn't have voted, but the fact it persisted as we made our way out of RVS, made me place a vote.

By personal attacks, I mean

What exactly have you done thats helpful to the town RC?? Bitch and moan. Are you that person that no one used to talk to and bitch and moan to their imaginary friend that they are so much better than everyone else.

Yeah. Umm, what question did you ask me? I must have missed it.

I'd like to hear from Zaggoth and DDDP on why they still have votes on Mutley, and if/why they think he should still be the D1 lynch.
Especially since neither have posted much since voting on him.

I'm suspicious of Mist, especially since she seems so adamant to keep this wagon rolling. Could just be town doing the whole scumhunting thing. Mist, how do you feel about lynching Mutley D1--do you think it's stupid to have a player at L-1 when two of the votes on him were parked there and the players who made them (DDDP and Zaggoth) haven't posted since? What do you think will happen if he flips town? What if he flips scum?

Activity is a bit low, you cannot deny that. At this point, mutley is seeming a bit townier and I am starting to like his posts. If he flipped town, I'd imagine suspicion would fall onto the wagon voters. If he flips scum, first a celebration would be held, along with some champagne, then poking at others on the wagon. I defiantly see an opportunity for a scum partner to have jumped on this wagon. It could have been a way for getting town points. Even though I was on it myself :3

unvote

I'll do a few reads later. Especially want to look into Varsoon's Paid Pyro scum read.

I asked not just you but all those sort of voting me. What leads do you you think you would have had in 4 pages if I hadn't posted what I had? (More like just over 2 pages if I hadn't posted much)

Again I don't see it as personal as I know othing of RC. If I knew that is what he was like it would be a personal attack. It's like everyone on the internet seems to call people a faggot. It's not personal cos you don't know nothing about them. IF you knew they were indeed gay. Calling them a faggot would be personal.

RC's vote is weird and again shows that he hasn't been helpful at all. He has been more passive aggressive antagonistic where as I am more aggressive antagonistic. I still think he is town sadly or I'd vote him. I may still vote to put some pressure on but we shall see.

[Mist7676]

Well we can debate our definitions of personal later.

RC's attack is pretty out of the blue, but I guess he saw it as, voting him because his explanation was in other posts?

[Mist7676]

Nope. Checking RC's ISO, (s)he Unvoted when (s)he didn't want to waste a lynch on mutley. But the posts have improved, so (s)he drops a vote? What? RC, I'd defiantly love an explanation.

[Mutleyddmc]

Well we can debate our definitions of personal later.

RC's attack is pretty out of the blue, but I guess he saw it as, voting him because his explanation was in other posts?

Well to me if you said Mutley you are a prick with no friends, your parents don't like you etc. I wouldn't take it personally cos none of it is true and its just you sayng stuff cos you know nothing about me. However I suppose if I said the same to you you could take it personally?

[Mist7676]

Hmm? What is that supposed to mean? I find any attacks that reach behind the computer screen into your actual life a personal attack, and not only is it rude, it is against the rules of the site.