Micro 179 - Mainstream Mini Mafia III [CULT WIN AGAIN]


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 6:03 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Doc, you need to give me a better explanation than this for not agreeing with the MASS Claim.
Explain to me why do you think it is a bad IDEA. Then will talk about my views ont his topic.. and I will walk you through how it may help us in a better way.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 6:41 am

Post by Doc Holliday »

Simple. The idea of a massclaim is to try to force scum to commit to a fakeclaim and run them up against a counterclaim. It's also to lay all the Town's cards on the table, to put their previous actions into context. When scum flubs a fakeclaim, or their fakeclaim doesn't match up with their previous actions.

Of these goals, the first is obviated when Town has completely unique roles. My role, at least, is completely new and unrelated to anything I've heard of before, and that suggests to me that most or all of the rest are as well. There's nothing to catch a fakeclaim on. They can say "I'm a Jedi Master! I can have the Mod edit another player's post via Jedi Mind Trick, but I never will, because it's unproductive." They couldn't be called on it, because unique roles.

As for the second goal of massclaim, we're at the beginning of the game. It's not even D1. There's almost nothing to compare to in order to check whether behavior matches claim.

There will be absolutely no positive result to a massclaim. On the contrary, it will allow the CL to identify their greatest threat(s) and work against them, either by mislynching, recruiting, or avoiding the recruitment of a recruitment-immune player.

In summation, Town has nothing to gain, while CL has everything to gain by massclaim. It's an unusual situation.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 6:43 am

Post by Doc Holliday »

Addendum to last sentence of first paragraph: in those situations, scum is discovered to Town's benefit.
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 8:39 am

Post by Candillan »

IMO, the only reason the Gov is in the setup is to give the CL more power. Day 0 we have to decide who ISN'T the cult leader, and Day One we need to decide who IS the Cult Leader. That's the point of the rule where if we don't elect a Gov, it goes into Night Zero. It's to make sure we do chose a Gov.

The power is inherently Cult-sided, and the town has to make sure we don't let it get into his/her hands.

At lease, that's what I think.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 8:45 am

Post by Candillan »

Least*
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 8:55 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 101, Doc Holliday wrote:Simple. The idea of a massclaim is to try to force scum to commit to a fakeclaim and run them up against a counterclaim. It's also to lay all the Town's cards on the table, to put their previous actions into context. When scum flubs a fakeclaim, or their fakeclaim doesn't match up with their previous actions.

Of these goals, the first is obviated when Town has completely unique roles. My role, at least, is completely new and unrelated to anything I've heard of before, and that suggests to me that most or all of the rest are as well. There's nothing to catch a fakeclaim on. They can say "I'm a Jedi Master! I can have the Mod edit another player's post via Jedi Mind Trick, but I never will, because it's unproductive." They couldn't be called on it, because unique roles.

As for the second goal of massclaim, we're at the beginning of the game. It's not even D1. There's almost nothing to compare to in order to check whether behavior matches claim.

There will be absolutely no positive result to a massclaim. On the contrary, it will allow the CL to identify their greatest threat(s) and work against them, either by mislynching, recruiting, or avoiding the recruitment of a recruitment-immune player.

In summation, Town has nothing to gain, while CL has everything to gain by massclaim. It's an unusual situation.
Have you played Cult games before? Did you play the Mainstreme Mini mafia? Chkflip games?
He doesnt' give you the roles that are not in the Mafia wiki list. that is something i can bet on...

And about your point 1, Yes I agree. Cult will be fake claiming his/her role info today but the main reason why we need this information is not just to learn about their actions or fake claims notes but more as in understand who they are fake/real and handover the governer position to someone who may have most viable claim that some how can be validated on tomorrow's phase so that we would know for sure that it is not given to wrong hands.

Please don't try to base your reads in this game through some sort of scum hunting, remember that we are only 5 players in this game. 1 mislynch means mostly the game is ended. So, we will have to walk through all the possible directions and choose the best one.

and i am not denying anything you said so far, they are good points and indeed valid but remember with our without MASS claim, it wouldn't make anydifference.. I ll explain how.

Despite any power role claim, if a player is once recruited by cult leader means that player looses all his town power actions and will become CULT. Cult don't have night kills, they just increase their strength on each night.

Who already said his town can be verifiable and i want to know how.. If there is way that his town status can be verifiable, I rather want to handover governer to him than someone else on assumptions, which will likely increase our oppurtunity in taking down the Cult on Day 1

and having list of claims from each of them, we can try balancing out which one sounds realistic and which one are not. Becuz, there is always a pattern to the way that PR roles are given to player in order to balance the fair win condition for both the parties. Example, If Cult Leader claims Doc and someone claims bodygaurd. That's too much in 5P game.. so that willl helps us narrow down the CL search between both the claims.

Eitherways, there are no disadvantages with the claims as even after the recruit, CL follower will not be able to use their powers anymore.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 8:57 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 103, Candillan wrote:IMO, the only reason the Gov is in the setup is to give the CL more power. Day 0 we have to decide who ISN'T the cult leader, and Day One we need to decide who IS the Cult Leader. That's the point of the rule where if we don't elect a Gov, it goes into Night Zero. It's to make sure we do chose a Gov.

The power is inherently Cult-sided, and the town has to make sure we don't let it get into his/her hands.

At lease, that's what I think.
there is night 0
so Cult leader will not have an oppurtunity to recurit our Governer unless if we elect CL itself as governer.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 9:14 am

Post by Candillan »

In post 71, Who wrote:
In post 5, Who wrote:/confirm

Assuming we do elect a Governor, does the game go into night 0 or day 1?

If a Governor is elected, we move on to Day 1.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 9:23 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

didn't I say the same thing? what is the confusion?
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 9:34 am

Post by Who »

Night Zero does not exist if we elect a governor. You said it did.
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 9:36 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

oops.. i meant to say there is no Night 0, sorry my mistake.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 9:37 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

And Can I hear more thoughts on MASS CLAIMS, Cmon guys.. I mean it. it will help... Someone who dosen't want it makes me worried!!!!!
the only person who will need to step back for claim is the CL.. not townies.. so move it on..
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 9:54 am

Post by Who »

Why do you think it will help?
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 9:58 am

Post by Candillan »

I'm okay with it, but we need to make sure that we elect the gov before election day.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 10:16 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 112, Who wrote:Why do you think it will help?
Read my posts above....
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 11:36 am

Post by TheIrishPope »

Loving this discussion. I do prefer Candillan above all choices, and do not see why Angel would prefer me over everyone else.
Also, we have 9 days, so we can chill for a bit. I don't think that you guys will mislynch D1.
Who, you seem awfully... distracted.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 11:37 am

Post by Candillan »

You want me to go first for the mass claim?
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 11:43 am

Post by TheIrishPope »

Oh right, about this mass claim: I don't get why it would be good, since this is closed setup. Everyone could just pull names out of a hat or from the Great Idea Mafia page.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 11:48 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 116, Candillan wrote:You want me to go first for the mass claim?
No, I want IrishPope to go first!!!
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 11:48 am

Post by TheIrishPope »

Please respond to what I just said.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 11:49 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Post # 117?
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TheIrishPope
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 11:52 am

Post by TheIrishPope »

If you would :3
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 12:15 pm

Post by TheIrishPope »

Or you could just leave, lurking, avoiding questions. That's cool too.
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Candillan
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 12:16 pm

Post by Candillan »

In post 118, ArcAngel9 wrote:
In post 116, Candillan wrote:You want me to go first for the mass claim?
No, I want IrishPope to go first!!!
I was asking Pope. :P
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ArcAngel9
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Wed May 22, 2013 12:19 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 117, TheIrishPope wrote:Oh right, about this mass claim: I don't get why it would be good, since this is closed setup. Everyone could just pull names out of a hat or from the Great Idea Mafia page.
Let me do this one more time... I ll do the way that i tutor my math students...

Although this is a closed game but the setup is not NORMAL, it is CULT and this is just a 5P game.
Which means.... 1 Cult Leader VS 4 Town aligned players (In my opinon, this is just a horrible setup to play. Total Butt hurt)
Town can only win this game if they successfully nail down Cult Leader on Day 1 , the possibility of nailing down the Cult Leader on Day 1 is again 20% only which means Cult Leader has 80% advantage to push for a mislynch.

That is very one sided setup process which is why chk must have added the Governor thingy to the game... But not sure how beneficial this is going to be becuz, there is always a 20% possibility that we might end up handing over the governor ability to Cult Leader itself.

What happens if Cult Leader gets the Governer power?
Nothing. He/She can't use it on them unless if there was no lynch on Day1, and it can be used to save his/her follower

but how beneficial this Governer power?
Again, it doesn't really make much difference to town unless Cult Leader jumps for a quick vote. Remember that this only stop a lynch. I really doubt Cult Leader would be stupid enough to jump out himselves and behave in that way.

so what can we do now?
Cult Hunt? and Nail cult?
No, We are not going to assume and nail down someone becuz they behaved cultish way, becuz 1 mislynch + night recruit equals Game lost.

What helps in this situation?
knowing who is nearly confirmed town, especially players like "Who" who soft claimed that his role may be verifiable. This way we would know that he is confirmed town and thus chances of nailing down the Cult on Day 1 increases...

What more can we do?
Mass claim, Mass claim out all given town roles.. town claims what they received in their role PM's, Cult fakes... We look the setup balance and nails down cult leader.

What if we can't nail down cult leader even after the mass claim?
Fine, Then we will have to evaluate our night actions carefullly to see if we can somehow stop cult leader being recruited someone. there is a good possiblity of very powerful PR's in this game otherwise this whole setup is nothing but CULT sided.

Now talk more please...
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