Newbie 1390 -- Game Over

[Guyett]

@goodmorning
reason I'm getting a townread from you is because you haven't done anything particularly scummy yet.
This below is why I'm getting a slight townread off you.

I also have an early town read on Guyett.

Really? Interesting.

If I wasn't new to the site I would have been all over my posts asking questions about mafia tbh. Fegelein believes that I may be town from those posts but I certainly wouldnt... and it seems you didnt believe either which is why I have you down as town. Just to clarify though... I am town lol

[JasonWazza]

Reason the above should never give a town read:

Mafia have no reason to give people a town read (unless they plan to kill them) because it lowers the amount of people in their lynch pool.

A mass town read is a bad thing for the Mafia.

Also "not done anything particularly scummy yet" is not a reason to town read, that is a null read.

Most of you seen to be voting Cabd over his "reaction test" even though Fegelein also claims to have placed a semi-serous vote for the same reason and isn't taking any heat. Why the discrepancy?

Simple there's a difference between what Fegelein did and what Cabd did, bonus points if you can tell me the difference yourself.

So you think his logic is alright, BUT you don't agree with it?

that doesn't make sense.

There's a certain amount of opinion that goes into interpretive logic. I find it a sensible enough proposition.

I don't think if you can't agree with the logic that you should think the logic is "alright"

[goodmorning]

@goodmorning
reason I'm getting a townread from you is because you haven't done anything particularly scummy yet.
This below is why I'm getting a slight townread off you.

I also have an early town read on Guyett.

Really? Interesting.

If I wasn't new to the site I would have been all over my posts asking questions about mafia tbh. Fegelein believes that I may be town from those posts but I certainly wouldnt... and it seems you didnt believe either which is why I have you down as town. Just to clarify though... I am town lol

As Jason points out, not having done anything particularly scummy would be a Null read, typically. That said, you don't appear very panicky, but then again you don't seem like a total newb. Therefore your lack of panic is not a massive towntell, but it is a slight one.

There's a certain amount of opinion that goes into interpretive logic. I find it a sensible enough proposition.

I don't think if you can't agree with the logic that you should think the logic is "alright"

What I'm saying is that in this game there are going to be differences of opinion, and when you start from a different place, you're going to end in a different place.
(For instance, if one of us started from "x person said y and that is scummy" and the other from "x person said y and that's not an alignment tell" then you may have impeccable reasoning from that point to your inevitable conclusion, as may I. But we would disagree with each other and still both have logic that is "alright".)

[JasonWazza]

If it's not an alignment tell then your logic isn't "alright" and you need to keep trying.

Though i get the point and will concede that one.

Where did Cabd go, he was here earlier he just never posted content

[Fegelein]

JS, Early suggests not set in stone, and somewhat weak, but I still have you as an early Town read Guyett.

Also, gm, can you explain your vote on me?

[JasonWazza]

JS, Early suggests not set in stone, and somewhat weak, but I still have you as an early Town read Guyett.

Also, gm, can you explain your vote on me?

What is the first line of this post even refering to?

[Fegelein]

I also have an early town read on Guyett.

Really? Interesting.

[JasonWazza]

Ah right.

Maybe quote that bit with the post next time?

[bestwillcui]

Personally, I believe that Guyett is playing the newb card, a scum trait. He asks about the mafia communication system and then does some analysis on people.

This is just a small suspicion though.

[Fegelein]

JS, I had no idea that scum couldn't daytalk until my second Newbie game.

Anything else?

[Guyett]

Personally, I believe that Guyett is playing the newb card, a scum trait. He asks about the mafia communication system and then does some analysis on people.

This is just a small suspicion though.

Yes but why would I bring attention on to myself like I did in the post below if I was Scum?
I can assure you I am not scum... but I am not a very useful townie either

@goodmorning
reason I'm getting a townread from you is because you haven't done anything particularly scummy yet.
This below is why I'm getting a slight townread off you.

I also have an early town read on Guyett.

Really? Interesting.

If I wasn't new to the site I would have been all over my posts asking questions about mafia tbh.

Fegelein believes that I may be town from those posts but I certainly wouldnt... and it seems you didnt believe either which is why I have you down as town. Just to clarify though... I am town lol

Interesting the Bestwillcui is gunning for me after my thoughts post below

Spoiler: A few early thoughts and whatnot from a hungover Irishman

Darq - Hasn't really posted too much but has been online and seems to be lurking. I find this activity suspicious. I'd watch out for the quiet ones who sit back and let the others who may actually be townies tie themselves in knots heaping suspicions on themselves.

bestwillcui

-

Another lurker. I suspect one of the mafia will be one of our lurkers and another will probably be either the most active or the second most active poster who spends their rime dodging suspicion and my bus their partner as a technique to hide his/her scummyness.

Derivan - seems to be approaching this quite logically which I approve of. That being said I dont agree with the suspicions of Fegelein and Jason for trying to vote of the most experienced as a scummy move. Just because you have been around for a while doesnt make you a good player automatically. I think it was more voting for them to get a feeling on their reactions and then compare it to other games they've played.

TheGarantula - Another logical player. I would tend to agree with most of what you have posted. Getting a town read for the time being.

JasonWazza - getting very defensive is a bit of a red flag but I like this spat between Jason and Derivan

Cabd - Active until people called him up on his 'joke' and then disappeared for a few hours to think things over? Tbh I'm getting a bit of a scum read here. I agree with the bussing comment that someone made.

Fegelein - semi experienced player and your later non burnout related posts make sense.

goodmorning - getting a strong town read of goodmorning

You're starting to sound a bit scummy...

UNVOTE: Cabd
VOTE: Bestwillcui

[JasonWazza]

Yes but why would I bring attention on to myself like I did in the post below if I was Scum?

Just a hint, this is the very definition of WIFOM

"Why would i do x if i am scum?"

To say that exact fucking line?

[Guyett]

Lol I just read up on WIFOM. I dont know if that would be a good strategy for a mafia person or not though.

[JasonWazza]

Why not?

They can say exactly what you said?

I'm just saying that saying "i wouldn't do that as scum" is pure WIFOM because we don't know your alignment.

[Fegelein]

I wouldn't call WIFOM scummy, it fits anti-town more.

[JasonWazza]

Hence why i didn't call it scummy Fege.

[TheGarantula]

Spoiler: Side by side comparison of the two "semi-serious" votes

Last visited:
Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:00 pm

Now i'm sure of it.

That being said, semi-serious vote.

UNVOTE: TheGarantula
VOTE: Derivan

Both of these declarations of "serious" intent are soon followed by these next posts:

I suppose you'll have to wait until they show up, now won't you?

All in good time, I assure you.

I'll explain why it was a semi-serious vote later.

And then:

Lol. You guys are taking that seriously? Like holy crap it was RVS with a pinch of reaction test thrown in for good measure.

Okay then.

Honestly you guys broke it too soon, would have been interesting to see Darq's response.

OK, let me explain why I called it a semi-serious vote.

I wanted the bandwagon to accumulate to L-2, so we could gauge Derivan's reaction. 1 vote isn't going to get a reaction out of somebody, but 3 will. His recent post was null though.

Most of you seen to be voting Cabd over his "reaction test" even though Fegelein also claims to have placed a semi-serous vote for the same reason and isn't taking any heat. Why the discrepancy?

Simple there's a difference between what Fegelein did and what Cabd did, bonus points if you can tell me the difference yourself.

They both posted their explanations ~24 hours after asking us to wait. The differences are that Derivan actually responded to Fegelein's vote and more people posted about Cabd's within that time span. However, I don't think that either of those things would indicated scumminess on Cabd's part. What is it you think I'm missing? No one really seems to be pushing this wagon anymore so I'm willing to let it go; I still would just like to know.

Personally, I believe that Guyett is playing the newb card, a scum trait. He asks about the mafia communication system and then does some analysis on people.

This is just a small suspicion though.

I don't really think showing inexperience in a Newbie game is really a reliable tell. What do you think of the other players so far?

Yes but why would I bring attention on to myself like I did in the post below if I was Scum?
I can assure you I am not scum... but I am not a very useful townie either

This role claim came out of nowhere. What was the point of it?

[Derivan]

Spoiler: Bunch of Responses

How do you account for the levity factor of RVS? Multivoting in RVS is hardly a scumtell.

@goodmorning
I applied logic to the posts that were made during RVS in order to come up with my vote rather than throw out a random RVS vote myself. Your initial post was full of votes, which I did find somewhat suspicious. However, you also have asked a lot of questions and did not change your final vote from your first post during the RVS stage.

I haven't played on this site before and I understand I may be applying to much weight to RVS vote swapping. I appreciate those who have respectfully disagreed with my conclusions instead of calling my application of logic "stupid".

Check my meta i tend to get pissed at people who make shit up

@JW
I did check your meta and you tend to be more of a douche when you are town and are generally play more reserved when you are mafia. Based on this I am leaning more town on you. What is keeping you pretty low on that list is the fact that you haven't been scum hunting. Before I called you out on it you had asked questions of two people. Me and GM.

@Fegelein
Looks like you made an OMGUS vote there. Have any other explanation?

Derivan's cases against me and Jason make absolutely no sense, and his posting style is now coming across as manufactured.

UNVOTE: Cabd
VOTE: Derivan

I had already explained my logic when you posted:

Derivan is stumbling over his words a bit, but he's not overly scummy.

Cabd strikes me as somebody who'd bus their partners early, so a Cabd/Dev team could be possible.

Either way, they're my top 2 early scum reads.

Leaning Town on Jason, but may need to re-evaluate.

I'd like to hear your re-evaluation of JW and how Cabd strikes you as somebody who'd bus their partners, is this a meta read?

So I live in fresno, and it was 108 F outside today and I had zero air conditioning since it broke. Finally cool enough to stand turning on electronics, so catching up, sorry all.

@Cabd
Power go out? Like to hear your thoughts.

Lol I just read up on WIFOM. I dont know if that would be a good strategy for a mafia person or not though.

@Guyett
Please tell me that was a joke and you didn't just double WIFOM after reading about WIFOM? Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and chalking it up to you not realizing that this kind of circular logic is not going to get us anywhere.

Most of you seen to be voting Cabd over his "reaction test" even though Fegelein also claims to have placed a semi-serous vote for the same reason and isn't taking any heat. Why the discrepancy?

@Gar
Why do you think my application of logic is more scummy than the reaction tests from Cabd and Fegelein? Also like to hear your reads on everyone else.

@bestwillcui
Still waiting for something, anything.

@Darq
Do you need a replacement?

TL;DR
Based on JW's meta, UNVOTE: JasonWazza until I hear from Cabd, bestwillcui, and Darq.

Fixed quote tags. Preview is your friend. ~~NS

[bestwillcui]

Spoiler: A big quote

Personally, I believe that Guyett is playing the newb card, a scum trait. He asks about the mafia communication system and then does some analysis on people.

This is just a small suspicion though.

Yes but why would I bring attention on to myself like I did in the post below if I was Scum?
I can assure you I am not scum... but I am not a very useful townie either

@goodmorning
reason I'm getting a townread from you is because you haven't done anything particularly scummy yet.
This below is why I'm getting a slight townread off you.

I also have an early town read on Guyett.

Really? Interesting.

If I wasn't new to the site I would have been all over my posts asking questions about mafia tbh.

Fegelein believes that I may be town from those posts but I certainly wouldnt... and it seems you didnt believe either which is why I have you down as town. Just to clarify though... I am town lol

Interesting the Bestwillcui is gunning for me after my thoughts post below

A few early thoughts and whatnot from a hungover Irishman:

Darq - Hasn't really posted too much but has been online and seems to be lurking. I find this activity suspicious. I'd watch out for the quiet ones who sit back and let the others who may actually be townies tie themselves in knots heaping suspicions on themselves.

bestwillcui

-

Another lurker. I suspect one of the mafia will be one of our lurkers and another will probably be either the most active or the second most active poster who spends their rime dodging suspicion and my bus their partner as a technique to hide his/her scummyness.

Derivan - seems to be approaching this quite logically which I approve of. That being said I dont agree with the suspicions of Fegelein and Jason for trying to vote of the most experienced as a scummy move. Just because you have been around for a while doesnt make you a good player automatically. I think it was more voting for them to get a feeling on their reactions and then compare it to other games they've played.

TheGarantula - Another logical player. I would tend to agree with most of what you have posted. Getting a town read for the time being.

JasonWazza - getting very defensive is a bit of a red flag but I like this spat between Jason and Derivan

Cabd - Active until people called him up on his 'joke' and then disappeared for a few hours to think things over? Tbh I'm getting a bit of a scum read here. I agree with the bussing comment that someone made.

Fegelein - semi experienced player and your later non burnout related posts make sense.

goodmorning - getting a strong town read of goodmorning

You're starting to sound a bit scummy...

UNVOTE: Cabd
VOTE: Bestwillcui

As I said, it is just a slight suspicion, more of a reaction test. Anyway, you could just be newb.

And yeah, that was WIFOM.

UNVOTE: Guyett


And about the lurking, I actually didn't see that comment until after I voted you.

Fixed tags. NOTE: Spoilers cannot be nested; so you can't spoiler a quote that already has a spoiler in it. ~~NS

[bestwillcui]

Spoiler: A big quote

Personally, I believe that Guyett is playing the newb card, a scum trait. He asks about the mafia communication system and then does some analysis on people.

This is just a small suspicion though.

Yes but why would I bring attention on to myself like I did in the post below if I was Scum?
I can assure you I am not scum... but I am not a very useful townie either

@goodmorning
reason I'm getting a townread from you is because you haven't done anything particularly scummy yet.
This below is why I'm getting a slight townread off you.

I also have an early town read on Guyett.

Really? Interesting.

If I wasn't new to the site I would have been all over my posts asking questions about mafia tbh.

Fegelein believes that I may be town from those posts but I certainly wouldnt... and it seems you didnt believe either which is why I have you down as town. Just to clarify though... I am town lol

Interesting the Bestwillcui is gunning for me after my thoughts post below

A few early thoughts and whatnot from a hungover Irishman:

Darq - Hasn't really posted too much but has been online and seems to be lurking. I find this activity suspicious. I'd watch out for the quiet ones who sit back and let the others who may actually be townies tie themselves in knots heaping suspicions on themselves.

bestwillcui

-

Another lurker. I suspect one of the mafia will be one of our lurkers and another will probably be either the most active or the second most active poster who spends their rime dodging suspicion and my bus their partner as a technique to hide his/her scummyness.

Derivan - seems to be approaching this quite logically which I approve of. That being said I dont agree with the suspicions of Fegelein and Jason for trying to vote of the most experienced as a scummy move. Just because you have been around for a while doesnt make you a good player automatically. I think it was more voting for them to get a feeling on their reactions and then compare it to other games they've played.

TheGarantula - Another logical player. I would tend to agree with most of what you have posted. Getting a town read for the time being.

JasonWazza - getting very defensive is a bit of a red flag but I like this spat between Jason and Derivan

Cabd - Active until people called him up on his 'joke' and then disappeared for a few hours to think things over? Tbh I'm getting a bit of a scum read here. I agree with the bussing comment that someone made.

Fegelein - semi experienced player and your later non burnout related posts make sense.

goodmorning - getting a strong town read of goodmorning

You're starting to sound a bit scummy...

UNVOTE: Cabd
VOTE: Bestwillcui

As I said, it is just a slight suspicion, more of a reaction test. Anyway, you could just be newb.

And yeah, that was WIFOM.

UNVOTE: Guyett


And about the lurking, I actually didn't see that comment until after I voted you.

Fixed tags. NOTE: Spoilers cannot be nested; so you can't spoiler a quote that already has a spoiler in it. ~~NS

[bestwillcui]

Oops, my formatting was messed up. Sorry about that.

Sorry if this is fluff.

[JasonWazza]

They both posted their explanations ~24 hours after asking us to wait. The differences are that Derivan actually responded to Fegelein's vote and more people posted about Cabd's within that time span. However, I don't think that either of those things would indicated scumminess on Cabd's part. What is it you think I'm missing? No one really seems to be pushing this wagon anymore so I'm willing to let it go; I still would just like to know.

*sigh* and i had high hopes of you noticing it.

I suppose you'll have to wait until they show up, now won't you?

All in good time, I assure you.

This is setting up for more then this is

That being said, semi-serious vote.

I'll explain why it was a semi-serious vote later.

Now the first reads as more

"Once he comes in and posts i will have a reason to keep my vote on him"

The second read as more

"Pressure vote"

One is scummy, the other isn't.

Once NS fixes up Derivan's post to actually make sense i might be able to actually read it properly.

but i did notice this

@JW
I did check your meta and you tend to be more of a douche when you are town and are generally play more reserved when you are mafia. Based on this I am leaning more town on you. What is keeping you pretty low on that list is the fact that you haven't been scum hunting. Before I called you out on it you had asked questions of two people. Me and GM.

But i have been scumhunting, before you called me out on it, your just a bit of a tool and can't admit that.

In fact post 53 (which is 5 posts before yours) is the start of my major scumhunting.

What you fail to grasp is this, SCUMHUNTING =/= ASKING QUESTIONS

Though PART of scumhunting is asking questions, a lot more of it, is using a vote as pressure to get tells as to whether or not someone is scum.

Also i am not "more of a douche" as town, i am more aggressive, there's a fuck ton of difference.

P-Edit: The preview button is there for a reason guys, fucking use it.

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: Cabd
VOTE: bestwillcui
FoS: Cabd

the "it was a reaction test" line is old.

[Cabd]

Old as it may be, I had no serious intent to keep my vote on once they came in. I do find it hilarious that you got upset at me for using time tells and then openly on thread wonder why I've been online but without content. Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.

[Nobody Special]

Bump.