Mini 288 - Wigu Mafia. Game over!


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:15 pm

Post by thedocsalive »

Well, I suppose a replacement will help to get the game moving. But until then...

I don't like the Aureal bandwagon. Seems like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't," kind of situation. We're naturally suspicious of lurkers, but some people are suspicious of overly aggressive players as well. Can't win for losing. I don't think this wagon is good.

ryanjunk had a valid accusation on Orbiting for not posting as much content as she could have on that Aureal vote. But it seems like she just wants to keep the game moving, as she changed her vote to Lenneth. And then back to Aureal Her post 95 seems to be consistent with this idea of preventing stagnation, so I'm not too suspicious of her at the moment.

I think the reason this game has slowed down is because people are afraid to step it up posting-wise after the accusations on Aureal for being overaggressive, and therefore scummy. Even if she were to get lynched, we'd have something to look back on. So more posts, and bigger posts, are better for the town.

You might have noticed I've said a lot of people were NOT scummy today. Lenneth, Aureal, and Orbiting above, for examples. My thought process here is that they received their respective bandwagons just to "get the game moving" and that their actions weren't actually too scummy. I could also vote someone just to help get the game moving, but I won't. I think a post with some thoughts can be helpful even without a vote.

The "I am the crackers of connivery.” Vote Count

Orbiting - 3 (ryanjunk, Centoaph, Aureal)
pablito - 2 (N_lich, Osloboditelj)
Aureal - 2 (Medicated Lain, Orbiting)
Vaughn - 1 (chamber)
Centoaph - 1 (Vaughn)
N_lich - 1 (pablito)

Not Voting - 2 (Lenneth, thedocsalive)

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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:27 am

Post by Centoaph »

The only person i agree with you about not having done anything scummy is aureal. Lenneth made the 5th vote on someone, which could be considered scummy. I know it was a mistake, but to say "it was just to get the game moving" is somewhat misleading. And, as far as Orbiting, not only do I think that the bandwaggon hopping is scummy, but he's actually my pick for the person to most likely to be scum at this point.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:50 pm

Post by Medicated Lain »

It's not a good sign that I have to start every post with a "sorry" right now. I have been really sick this week, but haven't had the opportunity to take off from either work *or* school, so keeping up with *anything* this week has been a challenge. Now that I'm on a weekend and have a chance to recover, it's time to catch up.

Doing this however, is still difficult with a headache that's lasted for the past five days, so for now I'm just gonna jump in with what I have and try to pick up from there.

vote:Centoaph
Throughout reading I just got a generally bad impression from Cento. The M&Ms bit was like a giant joke that seemed to get Cento on a way too defensive side. Also the post with:
cento wrote:His introductory post, and that's it. He's also one of the 4 people that were voting for vaughn.
On thedoc.

As was pointed out by, this statement is really contradictory, and beyond that it didn't seeem like he responded in anyway.

This is not an "ooo! let's kill cento!" post. It is more like "I need to participate more, but I have to pace myself, so I'll start with my biggest suspicion." I'll be posting again tomorrow, again, gomen nasai!
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:31 pm

Post by Centoaph »

What I meant by pointing out that he was one of the people voting for vaughn was that I was worried he was scum who had a random vote on someone who was starting to get a few more votes on him, and that he was content to just lurk to avoid having to move his vote, or try to justify his random vote staying on someone who had a few more votes since.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:41 pm

Post by Centoaph »

Also, one last time about the M&Ms thing...it was a giant joke...I said it the way I said it (If I were scum I would say....) to see if anyone was going to try to pull the WIFOM nonsense on me and try to stick to it even though we were only discussing candy. I thought it would have been pretty obvious what was going on, given how I worded this post:
Centoaph wrote:But since I know that, I'd be stupid to say that if I were really scum. I mean, if I were scum, I'd say I don't like the yellow ones, because everyone knows the scum hate the yellows and the townies love 'em. :wink:
Thats why the little wink was at the end, as well. I hope this clears that up, finally.




*Note to self: M&ms are not to be taken lightly, apparently.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:36 am

Post by Osloboditelj »

Well, I'm glad that we're getting a replacement if Aelyn isn't going to be contributing. Hopefully that'll help liven up this discussion. Also, we haven't heard from Vaughn, Chamber or Lenneth for a while...
Mod
, could you prod the three of them?
Done

Orbiting wrote:Yes, I jump on bandwagons. Especially on Day One, when I have no for real useful information. That's how the game is played, as I understand it. You poke at people and see if they reveal anything useful. That's about all I can go on this early in the game.

I also move my vote around, if the bandwagon I'm currently riding doesn't seem to be yielding anything.
That's a reasonable summary of what D1 is like, but I wouldn't say you've really been poking at people at all. All you've been doing is jumping on wagons, not asking any questions or making any allegations for people to defend against. Your attacks haven't been useful for trying to get any information out of anyone; they've been more opportunistic than well-reasoned, and now you've rejoined a wagon on OMGUS principles. Sounds pretty bad to me. I don't agree with doc's reasoning on your not being scummy: seemingly wanting to keep the game moving isn't very convincing to me at this point.
Vote: Orbiting
.

Other than that, I generally agree with Doc in post 100 - Aureal no longer seems terribly scummy, and I don't want to support a wagon which seems to discourage active posting, and getting the game moving isn't really enough of a reason for a vote most of the time.

That last can apply decently to Cento - he's mostly focussed on trying to get others to post more, without posting a terribly large amount of content himself. I don't agree with his allegations against Doc, either, but I don't think that's really enough reason to find him scummy. And as for the whole M&Ms thing, it's really not worth looking into too deeply, as I don't think anyone responded overseriously enough to make anything of. Thus, I don't think ML's vote is terribly well-placed.

People I want to hear more from:
Vaughn, Chamber, Lenneth, Ryanjunk, N_Lich,
pablito
. Damn, that's half the population of the game.
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:45 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

pablito replaces Aelyn
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:43 pm

Post by pablito »

It's quite alarming to come into the thread for the first time and see that I've already been saying things and that I've been voted for. So
Unvote
in the case that still applies.

On a superficial read-through, these are my first impressions:

Lenneth made a huge mistake earlier, but I'm glad that the bandwagon has desisted. However, I'm not supportive of this Orbiting bandwagon either. I think Orbiting knew squarely what she was doing when she added her vote, and at the moment, I'd rather give her the benefit of a doubt. I will need to further analyse these arguments though.

I agree with everything thedocsalive has been saying, but for some reason, I detect some ulterior motive right now. thedoc has been very helpful, but something felt awry, and I don't remember what it was. Obviously, however, thedocsalive is not someone to focus on for day one. More can be read from the Orbiting vs. bandwagon arguments and I'll need to read more on those who have already voted Orbiting.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:55 pm

Post by Vaughn »

Sorry, been busy as of late, I'll read up and post later.
On a Mafia-diet :wink:
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:23 pm

Post by thedocsalive »

As I said before, I don't find anyone too scummy at the moment. Some people have done things that I wouldn't have done, but that doesn't mean they're mafia. This is why I'm not really suspicious of the people under scrutiny from recent bandwagons.

Oslo, we HAVE to get the game moving. Deadline is March 20th, which is about a week. While it is retractable, it will only be removed if we pick up discussion (I assume--
mod
clarification please?). Also, in your last post, you vote Orbiting for voting because she wants to keep the game moving, and "seemingly wanting to keep the game moving isn't very convincing to me at this point." But, in the next paragraph, you say Aureal isn't scummy, and you don't want to support a wagon on a person "which seems to discourage active posting." It seems a little contradictory to me here. Care to clarify?

pablito, I don't know how to respond to that last paragraph with the "ulterior motive." All I can say is that I'm trying to help contribute to this game. At the moment, that doesn't include lynching someone based solely on what we've seen so far. I think that most of the current bandwagons are reaching too much. Yes, I'm aware reaching is sometimes necessary on day one, but too much is bad, IMO.
Medicated Lain on February 26th wrote:March 20th... assuming we're not in the same town oslo is voting me for, we should be fine!
While it's not urgent, I wouldn't say we're fine...
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:28 pm

Post by chamber »

After rereading I still don't like vaughn.

On another note: Im going on vacation untill the 21. Feel free to replace me if my absence will cause a problem.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:39 am

Post by ryanjunk »

Just wanted to check in with the game (unlike some, I'm actually less active over the weekends). I think Orbiting still looks most scummy to me, so I'm happy with my vote. I'm starting to think more suspiciously about those who are making a big deal about the "M&M incident" because I really think that was just a stupid joke thing, and trying to make mountains out of molehills is rather scummy IMHO. So that's
FoS: MedicatedLain
on this page, I'll have to reread and see who else. But I'm keeping my Orbiting vote intact.
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:57 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

thedocsalive wrote: While it is retractable, it will only be removed if we pick up discussion (I assume--mod clarification please?).
You are correct in that assumption. Now spring into action!
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:21 am

Post by Osloboditelj »

Good to hear from four of the people I felt weren't contributing enough, even if two of them (Vaughn, Chamber) didn't exactly add much in their posts.
pablito wrote: I think Orbiting knew squarely what she was doing when she added her vote, and at the moment, I'd rather give her the benefit of a doubt.
Funny, I agree with the first part of this sentence very much, but I very much disagree with the second part. Precisely because she seems to have been acting very knowingly, we should scrutinise her very carefully.
pablito wrote:I agree with everything thedocsalive has been saying, but for some reason, I detect some ulterior motive right now. thedoc has been very helpful, but something felt awry, and I don't remember what it was. Obviously, however, thedocsalive is not someone to focus on for day one.
You just might have a point there...
thedocsalive wrote: Oslo, we HAVE to get the game moving. Deadline is March 20th, which is about a week. While it is retractable, it will only be removed if we pick up discussion (I assume--mod clarification please?). Also, in your last post, you vote Orbiting for voting because she wants to keep the game moving, and "seemingly wanting to keep the game moving isn't very convincing to me at this point." But, in the next paragraph, you say Aureal isn't scummy, and you don't want to support a wagon on a person "which seems to discourage active posting." It seems a little contradictory to me here. Care to clarify?
Looks like you misunderstood me yet again (hmm, this is seeming systematic... I wonder if it might be intentional). I very much agree that we need to be keeping the game moving; in fact, one reason I voted Orbiting is to add a little pressure and maybe thus kickstart the conversation. My point about her reason for voting was not that I disregard the importance of keeping the game moving, but rather that I doubted that she was really trying to move the game along. Her claim to want to try to get more information via wagon-hopping doesn't mesh with her lack of explanation for the votes themselves. The best way to push an discussion forward is to add more arguments and thus more to base analysis off, and her vote-hopping did no such thing. Thus, the moving-the-game-along justification seems quite weak in regards to her votes.

Now, let's try to keep this conversation escalating. We need all the leads we can get.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:43 am

Post by Medicated Lain »

unvote, vote: orbitting
after looking back I can agree with that. As far as I saw Oslo's pretty much right. The only time Orbitting started anything of her own was when she voted for Lennon, which while had some(but not much) justification.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:50 pm

Post by pablito »

Well that's five votes for Orbiting. All within the span of two pages. Quite a quick bandwagon on someone who wagon-hopped herself. I would like to hear something from Orbiting soon.

Oslo, I said that I would give Orbiting the benefit of a doubt for the moment. Should Orbiting come back and give nothing of substance, I reserve the right to retract my defense of Orbiting.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:21 pm

Post by Aureal »

I don't know that I'd call it quick. It may have only been two pages, but it has been a week, so it's not like she hasn't had time to say anything. That's just how slow this game is moving. :/ I was kind of expecting her to ask for the reasoning behind my vote, but maybe she's just realized that she did kind of trap herself with her own reasoning and not wanted to dig any deeper into the hole.
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:16 pm

Post by thedocsalive »

Oslo, if I was intentionally misinterpreting your words, I would have voted for you. But I didn't say anything about you being scummy in that post. I just wanted some clarification on what you were trying to say there. And now I understand what you were trying to say.

I see why Orbiting has some votes, but I think five with seven to lynch is a bit extreme for votehopping with some reasoning. She's at lynch minus two for agreeing with Oslo's reasoning, which isn't a great justification for this bandwagon, IMO.

Also,
Vote: Medicated Lain

She joined the Orbiting bandwagon, which is centered around weak voting and agreeing with Oslo's reasoning. Yet that's exactly what ML does here. I find this to be pretty hypocritical reasoning. And this is a fifth vote, not a second like Orbiting's.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:43 pm

Post by Vaughn »

2 quick bandwagons on day 1? We're setting a record here as the scummiest town :wink:

I'm quite interested in who started/joined the bandwagons of Lenneth/Orbiting, to see if we can draw any correlations.

Sadly, I have exams this week so I don't have the time to be delving into hobbies.

If anyone would like to take up the cause and do the work, I'd be more than appreciative, not to mention the leads the town can gain from such analysis.

Limited Access till Thursday.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:48 pm

Post by Centoaph »

While I don't have much to add at this time, as I still think orbiting is our best lynch for the day, I got a decent chuckle out of whoever it was saying this was a "quick" bandwaggon.


And, for thedoc saying "5 is alot of votes", its not like orbiting hasn't had a chance to try to talk people out of thier votes. But, at this rate, it seems like the next time he does try, well,...lets just say I think aureal is right about the digging your own hole thing.
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:00 pm

Post by Medicated Lain »

Just what is so hypcritical about it? I looked up Orbitting's posts, and Oslo was right, it seems like a fine reason to vote someone. I have only seriously voted for 2 people in this game, and this is the only bandwagon I joined. We have to keep the game moving, and if there's a reason to vote for someone, then atleast we're making some progress.
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:10 am

Post by ryanjunk »

This is the longest "quick bandwagon" I've ever been on...
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:50 am

Post by pablito »

So, chronologically it's been a long time, but discussion wise, it seems that there really hasn't been much movement either way. Hopefully things can start to pick up - but I'm not so sure lynching Orbiting right now is the best option. Especially since she hasn't really defended herself since the bandwagon really piled onto her. Right now we should at least wait to hear from her, but if her defense doesn't make too much sense, I would not be against adding another vote to hear a claim from her.
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:43 pm

Post by thedocsalive »

I agree with pablito that Orbiting should post a defense of some sort to the bandwagon. Certainly before our looming deadline...

Medicated Lain, I was looking at the initial votes on Orbiting, which were due to just accepting Oslo's reasoning. I noticed that you did the same thing in your vote. In this case, Oslo pointed out that Orbiting's votehopping has been done with relatively weak reasoning, and that they "haven't been useful for trying to get any information out of anyone." He also said that "seemingly wanting to keep the game moving isn't very convincing to me at this point." This is how I saw your vote. Yes, I know you haven't votehopped much in this game, but this vote has similar characteristics. Orbiting already had four votes to respond to, which is more than halfway to lynch, so why add a fifth? How does this keep the game moving any more than it was? It's clear that there's already some pressure on her, and she has to respond to accusations when she gets back.

Maybe hypocritical wasn't the best word to use, but I still don't like that vote.
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:21 am

Post by Osloboditelj »

Why am I a magnet for logical hangers-on? It would be almost flattering if I weren't trying to detect those using bad logic. Seriously, though, Ml's behaviour is pretty scummy. Jumping on a bandwagon in the exact same way that wagon started seems disingenuous at best. Her only other jstification has been justification for voting in general, not for her actual vote, as well. Doc summed up the issue pretty decently, but I want to add that your previous vote - your other "serious" vote, at that, was on Cento over the M&M's thing. ML's overall voting pattern seems pretty weakly reasoned to me.
FOS: Medicated Lain
, with the option to vote depending on what happens now in the Orbiting situation.

Speaking of which, it would be nice to see some defence or justification from Orbiting at this point. She hasn't really responded very well to our allegations, and hasn't posted at all in the last 6 days. Orbiting, if you don't want to be lynched, please defend yourself.
pablito wrote:Oslo, I said that I would give Orbiting the benefit of a doubt for the moment. Should Orbiting come back and give nothing of substance, I reserve the right to retract my defense of Orbiting.
Fair enough.
thedocsalive wrote:Oslo, if I was intentionally misinterpreting your words, I would have voted for you. But I didn't say anything about you being scummy in that post. I just wanted some clarification on what you were trying to say there. And now I understand what you were trying to say.
And I didn't say you seemed scummy either. I was just cynically frustrated with our failure to communicate.
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