Yes, I can spin meta. I do it by leaving out detail, glossing over important stuff, and above all making it hard to get to - I post links to games, give commentary by post numbers, and I definitely don't pull out a bunch of example quotes and lay it out in a way that anybody can see what I'm talking about.In post 96, Kazekirimaru wrote:I suppose I just plain disagree.
It seems blatantly obvious to me that all of fuzzy's posts have been made with the express purpose of defending himself and not estranging any potential allies in the process. I think he's scum. And I'm starting to think I'm looking at scumffery, as well. I've seen you spin meta to make it look how you want- you did it to my posts in Newbie 1436 when we were scum. It's very solid-looking on the surface, but it all falls apart when you realize how much of it is subjective opinion and how it doesn't make sense when the individual posts are taken in context of their respective situations. I'm getting that same feeling here.
Comparing his past Scum meta to this game and giving him a pass for not being hedgy or calculated when he hasn't even taken stances(or lack of stances) on anyone yet just feels off. You're making comparisons where they're not applicable.
I do post numbers and commentary as town sometimes, too, but it's because sometimes I'm feeling lazy or I just don't have the time to do it right.
I didn't have the time tonight, but I thought these ISOs paint a very clear picture and I don't think some of this player list will do the research themselves if all they get are links.
As far as my alignment, to the extent I'm capable of obvtowning, this game is already an example of what obvtown ffery looks like.
I don't always get thoroughly engrossed in some question or another in a game when I'm town. But, when I do, the conviction and the pure excitement of working through a puzzle is something I can't begin to emulate as scum.
And lets look at those posts where I talked about your meta when we were scum together.
In post 504, fferyllt wrote:I recently did a meta dive on Kaze. His game has been evolving pretty quickly. His first game at MS was a scum game. All his games since then have been town. His tone has gotten lighter and less formal with every game. The stuff that has stayed the same about his town games is reasoned stances and observations. I should go back and look at some of those games, though. IIRC he's been mislynched 2-3 times. I didn't pay attention to why he was mislynched. Was more interested in looking for differences in tone and expressiveness by alignment.In post 499, Bert wrote:Ffery, what do you think of Kaze? You said she made a good point about GM's carelessness probably being more likely to be coming from town. Other than that, I can't find you having commented about that slot in the last couple of days.
My "meta report" was loosely based on what I had pulled together for the game where we were both town. I reused it, but added lots of irrelevancies about game theory and scum in general. I reported stuff from your other games without links. And I glossed over and mischaracterized your posts in that game. I certainly didn't pull up any examples of your posts because I had to keep it non-specific. Otherwise I would have been drawing huge arrows to what was wrong with your posts in that game.In post 552, fferyllt wrote:I've done a meta dive to develop a sense of his tone as different alignments, but what I came away with was an impression of someone whose game is changing pretty rapidly. His one scum game was also his first game, and the tone was pretty formal compared to more recent games. So, adjusting for the direction his game changes have taken, the big difference to me between his scum game and his town games is that the first game's posts felt organized with tight, well defined stances. In other games, his stances and reactions to game events have been more disorganized and hence fluid.In post 551, Bert wrote:houghts on Kaze this game? What is your read? I asked you what you think earlier, and you came up with this response...which doesn't help that much within the context of this game. I feel like I might have been easily fooled for a while yesterday when Kaze was interacting with me. TSO's observation actually reaffirms what was farther in the back of my mind yesterday.
This is a scum/town difference I see in quite a few players who don't have really deep experience at mafia, and I think it's where the "informed" part of informed minority shows up in newer players.
Applying these thoughts to this game - His stances so far have been pretty fluid which feels town. There has been some hedginess or maybe waffling, though, which pings a little. I don't worry too much about waffling (changing stance), but hedging (e.g., fencesitting) tends to get my attention.
I want to factor in my impression of his predecessor. Gravija had a really strong newb vibe, and was reacting to stuff that irritated him without paying much attention to whether what irritated him was scummy. In newbie games I try to sort new players quickly and then mostly stop worrying about them if I think they are town. That's kinda where I was at with Gravija. I don't think he would have been as open in his responses to "yeah but is that scummy?" questions if he were scum. But, aside from the irritable reactions, he seemed kinda passive. IIRC he was the most townward of my null reads when I posted a reads list. At the time, I was thinking hard about moving both him and Sakura to my town pile.
The waffly/hedgy stuff bugs me enough that I want to call Kaze leaning town, not strong town.
In other words, pretty much the opposite of what I am doing here.
You may disagree with what I think about his posts. You may think I am dead wrong. But you are not being misled about what I think and why I think it. I've laid it out as clearly as I know how.
