Mafiascum.net

XScorpion seems town however wanting another town lynched seems mis-read

Thor sounds town at the moment and I hardly know him. Played briefly with him as scum long ago in the past. Playing with him in two games right now. So Yeap sounds town ATT. I don't really know anyone else tbh. Still not liking Zek looks to be skimming along nicely. So far Scorpion sounds ok. Trouble is am reading this on my phone as I am travelling. Will try to read as I go, but definitely will be able to give this more attention Sunday.

(expired on 2014-02-27 16:44:37)

till Day 1 Deadline

@XScorp - My issue with the 'nice OMGUS there' is the timing and the tone of it. Day 1. Page 1. He has me voting him. I *would* expect a joking 'Y U OMGUS me!?!' I *would* expect a self referential joke 'Well, now that you're OMGUSing me my vote is serious' But his comment sounded like he meant what he said, insomuch as he was legit trying to call me out on OMGUS.

I have made this call against him for some time now, and he has not tried to claim the OMGUS was a joke.

Now, imagine, you are town. You are currently voting someone as part of your RVS reaction process. That person comes in and notes that your game experience with them should not have made you vote them like you have and votes you.
Firts reaction - call them out on OMGUS?

Does that make sense to you?
It really doesn't to me, but you seem okay with it.
Why?

Everything here hinges on how serious his comment was. I completely agree with you if he wasn't joking; I'm 'okay with it' because I first assumed he was joking, and if mafiascum has taught me anything it's that my first instincts are more reliable than second-guessing myself. Even now, I'm not really convinced he was serious. If Bulb comes into the thread and says 'no I was 100% serious in that comment' I have no problem voting him, but that's certainly not likely.

In post 104, XScorpion wrote:Everything here hinges on how serious his comment was. I completely agree with you if he wasn't joking; I'm 'okay with it' because I first assumed he was joking, and if mafiascum has taught me anything it's that my first instincts are more reliable than second-guessing myself. Even now, I'm not really convinced he was serious. If Bulb comes into the thread and says 'no I was 100% serious in that comment' I have no problem voting him, but that's certainly not likely.

What makes you read it as a joke?

In post 8, Thor665 wrote:Wow, and now you're acting like OMGUS, especially on Page 1, actually means something.

People can start sheeping me any time now, and then I'll be obv. town after Bulbazak flips scum.

In fact here was my immediate reply to him.

He never addressed it.

Thor is very town. Porkens is sort of town

VOTE: Zekrom

Like 1/2 scumread 1/2 policy at this point. I also agree that Bulba looks too twitchy. XScorp I'm unsure of, and everyone else is doing fuckall for me to read them >:C

In post 106, Thor665 wrote:

In post 104, XScorpion wrote:Everything here hinges on how serious his comment was. I completely agree with you if he wasn't joking; I'm 'okay with it' because I first assumed he was joking, and if mafiascum has taught me anything it's that my first instincts are more reliable than second-guessing myself. Even now, I'm not really convinced he was serious. If Bulb comes into the thread and says 'no I was 100% serious in that comment' I have no problem voting him, but that's certainly not likely.

What makes you read it as a joke?

At first, just because I didn't consider the possibility it could be anything else given the game just started. Now, I'm less confident in that.

Thor665 wrote:

In post 8, Thor665 wrote:Wow, and now you're acting like OMGUS, especially on Page 1, actually means something.

People can start sheeping me any time now, and then I'll be obv. town after Bulbazak flips scum.

In fact here was my immediate reply to him.

He never addressed it.

What can we infer from his failure to address it?

In post 109, XScorpion wrote:What can we infer from his failure to address it?

That I wasn't wrong.

I think he knew the OMGUS looked bad but didn't want to get into it as a discussion, which is why he suddenly lept sideways onto Porkens for...the crime of calling distancing.
I mean, functionally, he theoretically voted me to get a read on me. That's what a (good) player does with his RVS, he looks for reactions from people. He, theoretically, got a reaction from me and called it OMGUS and then got a further reaction and, without saying he got any sort of read on me, his next interaction with me is asking me to help him lynch the scum he 'found' in Porkens.
Why not work on me a bit more?
Why not address the OMGUS which he felt the need to bring up?
Why not address me calling him scum for bringing up OMGUS?

Nope, he just walked over and started poking Porkens as though he literally had not a care in the world for the reactions he was getting from me.
A person he'd suggested was using questionable meta on him...I mean, during RVS, if I thought OMGUS was a scumtell, and I had someone using meta I thought wasn't legit as their defense...I'd...be *on* that person, at least for a bit.
Instead he starts talking to me like I'm a town read.
I really didn't like the interaction, it all feels fake.

What do you infer from his actions?

@Thor you seem angry

In post 111, Zekrom25 wrote:@Thor you seem angry

This is directed at me while not actually being a question, but rather an observation with neither conclusion nor actionable opinion attached.
So...
Okay?

@Thor please provide a detailed description of your emotional stat currently

Heck if I know, I'm a guy with a beard, we don't talk about our emotions.

I'll go with annoyance because this and [ongoing] are being pretty lurky and showing lots of players playing bad who probably should learn their playstyle limitations and not sign up for things and then flake, and that always bugs me.

Hey Thor, I'm around. Let's talk about stuff that isn't Bulba and Zekrom b/c those topics have been beaten to death at this point.

What do you think of 95?

I don't really like the push on cxin; I feel like it's possibly trying to divert attention onto a soft target. I also don't understand why she mixes Zekrom in with the you/bulba/porkens interactions.

I will agree her pairing group makes no logical sense.

Cxin is certainly either scum or lynchbait - but the reason lynchbait is lynchbait is because it's reasonable to lynch it, and the inherent act of not liking Cxin's play thus far is hardly anti-town.

I was waiting to see what she did next, currently she's still in the null field for me and I'm curious to see how she advances at this point.

Calling out? Dead to rights? Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

In post 10, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 9, Porkens wrote:Well, we are pretty much lynching one of Thor/Bulba. Probably both scum TBH.

Nope. Don't like.

Unvote

Vote Porkens

You can join me anytime you like, Thor.

This is you omgusing like a boss.

In post 28, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 13, Porkens wrote: MMMMM and THAT is what you call a flinch.

A flinch? You got overzealous and set up a false dichotomy in RVS. You were essentially cheerleading my poking of Thor, and now you're saying that we're both distancing from each other after you've been called out? Learn to be more subtle in the future.

This is you bullshitting. I didn't set up a false dichotomy. I said I wanted to lynch one or the other of you. In fact, I was calling out for your play fighting. This is also you trying to patronize me and discredit my position. (FTR I'll cheerlead any RVS wagon; it means nothing)

how many more buzzwords could you have fit in there scum?

Says the guy whose case revolves around distancing on page 1.

You two coming out of the gate and play fighting like that is suspicious. I'm surprised no one else seems to think so. I also really don't like how players these days start talking about "cases" on page 2 or whatever. AT ANY RATE your defensiveness is the real scum tell at this point.

In post 65, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 61, Porkens wrote:Naw, it started out as a distancing theory, but now it's about your <repeated> flinching. You feel like scum who's pissed he's getting called out so early.

So essentially, when called out on your bad reasoning (which came about after being called out for the way you cheerlead the early RVS pushes), you then say "Well, now it's about how he reacted", which again has to do with you being called out.

[/quote][/quote]

First of all, you keep using this term "called out" as if you have done anything but say "Nope, don't like it" and voted for me. Stop it. Secondly, it all about the reactions, that's all you in the prenatal stage of the game, and your reactions have been scummy, overly-defensive, omgusy, shit. Now get lynched.

My reasoning wasn't totally clear. It was 3 am local time, in my defense.

Basically, there's a big mess that I wasn't really up to sorting through at 3 am between Thor, Porkens, and Bulbazak. It looks likely that one or more wagons could conceivably come out of that. If T/P/B are all town, then scum would like to encourage those wagons - and not draw a lot of attention to themselves and risk derailing the hypothetically building wagons by trying to start RQS once the game has actually begun. On the flip side, if any of T/P/B are scum, or are distancing, then presumably scum-Zek would know that and would have a planned out response, and I really, REALLY doubt that any entire scumteam would argue for randomly starting RQS. It's WIFOMy, but I don't see any reason why scum-Zek would play that way.

That said, given the lack of a daystart PM, it's probable that the list of currently-active players is disproportionately scummy. Presumably scum would have been told to stop talking in the qt, so they'd all be aware day had started while town players had no idea.

That's fair.

Although a structure group of {Bulb, Porkens, Thor} seems right at this point.

In post 117, Thor665 wrote:Cxin is certainly either scum or lynchbait - but the reason lynchbait is lynchbait is because it's reasonable to lynch it, and the inherent act of not liking Cxin's play thus far is hardly anti-town.

While I agree with this, it's also the job of competent town to figure out who's scum and who's bad.

Broseidon - how do you expect to do that when anti-town players aren't doing anything? You motivate them to do something - anything - right?

In post 103, Thor665 wrote:But his comment sounded like he meant what he said, insomuch as he was legit trying to call me out on OMGUS.

Call you out on OMGUS? I wanted to point out that your reaction was OMGUS. I wasn't so much calling you out for being scum for it.

In post 104, XScorpion wrote:Even now, I'm not really convinced he was serious. If Bulb comes into the thread and says 'no I was 100% serious in that comment' I have no problem voting him, but that's certainly not likely.

It was somewhat serious. Why would you have no problem voting me if I said I was 100% serious about what I'd said?

In post 107, Thor665 wrote:

In post 8, Thor665 wrote:Wow, and now you're acting like OMGUS, especially on Page 1, actually means something.

People can start sheeping me any time now, and then I'll be obv. town after Bulbazak flips scum.

In fact here was my immediate reply to him.

He never addressed it.

Something more scummy came to my attention. I didn't want to waste my time on an issue of no consequence.

In post 110, Thor665 wrote: I mean, functionally, he theoretically voted me to get a read on me. That's what a (good) player does with his RVS, he looks for reactions from people. He, theoretically, got a reaction from me and called it OMGUS and then got a further reaction and, without saying he got any sort of read on me, his next interaction with me is asking me to help him lynch the scum he 'found' in Porkens.
Why not work on me a bit more?

I voted for you, because I thought it was funny. I normally BS and poke things in RVS until I find something more substantial to get me out.

In post 110, Thor665 wrote: Why not address the OMGUS which he felt the need to bring up?

Why would I when I had found something legitimately scummy?

In post 110, Thor665 wrote: Why not address me calling him scum for bringing up OMGUS?

Again, why would I? It's a non-issue, and a particularly distracting one at that.

In post 110, Thor665 wrote: if I thought OMGUS was a scumtell

I don't, at least not always. I just thought you might be one of those players who are so wrapped up in their abilities to play the game, that they see anyone voting them as a scumtell, when it's not.

In post 110, Thor665 wrote: Instead he starts talking to me like I'm a town read.

I'm hoping you're town. I figure I at least need a whole day phase to accurately read you.

In post 118, Porkens wrote:Calling out? Dead to rights? Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

I've shown myself doing it, so I'd say that makes it so.

In post 118, Porkens wrote:

In post 10, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 9, Porkens wrote:Well, we are pretty much lynching one of Thor/Bulba. Probably both scum TBH.

Nope. Don't like.

Unvote

Vote Porkens

You can join me anytime you like, Thor.

This is you omgusing like a boss.

Nope. This is me noticing your scummy behavior and ending my bull session with Thor to pursue it. You just said "We're lynching one of Thor/Bulba. There is no other lynch." on page freaking one. Add in the fact that you cheerlead my original vote for Thor, and that these actions show you wanting to urge the fight on from the sidelines, and I wanted you hung from the nearest tree.

In post 118, Porkens wrote:

In post 28, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 13, Porkens wrote: MMMMM and THAT is what you call a flinch.

A flinch? You got overzealous and set up a false dichotomy in RVS. You were essentially cheerleading my poking of Thor, and now you're saying that we're both distancing from each other after you've been called out? Learn to be more subtle in the future.

This is you bullshitting. I didn't set up a false dichotomy. I said I wanted to lynch one or the other of you.

Wrong! You said that the lynch for today was either me or Thor. You didn't acknowledge any other options. THAT's a false dichotomy. Why would you do that? Because you got overzealous and thought our RVS fight might turn into something more serious, and so you pushed too early.

In post 118, Porkens wrote: In fact, I was calling

you

out for your play fighting.

Where were we "play fighting", and why do you think it's play fighting?

In post 118, Porkens wrote: This is also you trying to patronize me and discredit my position.

How am I patronizing you? Do you even know what that word means, or are you just tossing things out there so it looks like you should be offended? And how am I discrediting your position? Your case has changed at least 3 times every time someone tells you how or why the current one is BS.

In post 118, Porkens wrote: (FTR I'll cheerlead any RVS wagon; it means nothing)

It means everything when you were seeking to stay in the background and urge the fight on.

In post 118, Porkens wrote: I also really don't like how players these days start talking about "cases" on page 2 or whatever.

Why is page 2 too early to talk about cases? If you're out of RVS and you feel you've found something scummy, why not push for it?

In post 118, Porkens wrote: AT ANY RATE your defensiveness is the real scum tell at this point.

My defensiveness? I've called out your scummy behavior, and showed why it is so, while all you've done is dodge the issue, and I'M the one being defensive?

In post 118, Porkens wrote: First of all, you keep using this term "called out" as if you have done anything but say "Nope, don't like it" and voted for me. Stop it.

I've explained multiple times why I'm voting you and why I find you scummy. You then change your case on me when I point it out. You're the one who continues to try to dodge my case on you, and who tries to paint it like I don't have a case. And no, I'm not going to stop pushing you, especially when your reactions to my pushing shows that you don't want the attention on you, and you're trying to push it off. I don't see why you as town would continue to dodge me the way you have.

In post 118, Porkens wrote: Secondly, it

is

all about the reactions, that's all you in the prenatal stage of the game, and your reactions have been scummy, overly-defensive, omgusy, shit. Now get lynched.

I never said anything about reactions not being useful. What I've said is you've changed your case from "flinching" to distancing to, now, "well, it was your reaction that was scummy". And now that I have you cornered, you're throwing every word you can think of with a negative connotation at me in the hopes that people might not pay attention to what I'm saying and will ignore you.

In post 121, BROseidon wrote:While I agree with this, it's also the job of competent town to figure out who's scum and who's bad.

I fail to see how voting them or finding them initially scummy prevents this. Functionally, it's the first step in trying to get a better read on them, right?

In post 123, Bulbazak wrote:Call you out on OMGUS? I wanted to point out that your reaction was OMGUS. I wasn't so much calling you out for being scum for it.