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Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:05 am
by Ghostlin
The_Trolling_Jester wrote:
MonkeyMan576 wrote:
Unvote:
Vote: Jester


I'm going with the theory that the mafia will be less likely to claim neighbors, also the self vote. 1+1=2

Actually, 1+1=3, obviously.

Besides, how does self voting make me scum?


It's inherently against your win condition as both factions. Other than reaction trolling, tho', Town has less of a reason to do it than scum, who can play it off as 'LOL, it's a joke, I wouldn't dare vote myself if I wanted to stay alive as scum'. It introduces a layer of WIFOM.

(Also, there are reasons to be a cheeky bastard and self-hammer as scum that aren't against you're wincon, but we're not talking about that.)

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:07 am
by Albert B. Rampage
Ghostlin is making sense but he's being ridiculed and critcized left and right because he's too serious.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:18 am
by Ghostlin
BlueBloodedToffee wrote:OK, so you either fail at reading, or you are intentionally misrepping me.

I'm asking if you thought Monkey switched his vote in the hopes of getting a quick-lynch on Jester for his trolling.

Like, nowhere do I say anything about you 'being scared' of Jester getting lynched. I'm asking you for the
motivation
behind Monkey's switch in votes.


Right, but in order for me to believe that Monkey was trying to quick lynch Jester, I would have to either believe:

a) Monkey is inherently playing sub-optimal;
b) I'm actually afraid that Monkey was trying to lynch Jester.
c) some other reason that makes me criminally insane.

I don't have any evidence with A, I'm pretty sure I'm not fucking nuts enough for you to believe C, so I went with B. If that's wrong, then let me parse the question another way:

What reason would you think I'd be so concerned that Monkey, who is not necessarily the most popular player for best Town award at the moment, would be able to get enough support to quick lynch a Jester wagon? Why was that the
ONLY
conclusion you came up with?

But you bring up a good point about motivation, so let's talk about it:

*A Jester vote allows Monkey to sink below the radar while saying his vote is somewhere. Consider for a minute that he voted Wal, moved off of Wal, voted Jester for one of the same reasons he voted for Wal. Now, consider his other actions this game. He's really not interacted that much with anyone and most of his questions have been game question oriented so far.
*He's really not...pushing Jester. Not questioning Jester on his behavior, the vote is kind of there. I know, in general, if I'm assed to vote ANYONE, I push and I push. Not so much here.
*The dissonance point earlier. There's NO REASON for Monkey to move his vote. It comes out of no where and the vote has no reason to move, all things being equal.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:19 am
by Aronis

~~~~~
Votecount 1.1
~~~~~

The_Trolling_Jester - 1 - MonkeyMan576
MonkeyMan576 - 3 -Walpurgisnacht - Albert B. Rampage - Ghostlin
Ghostlin - 2 - Kise - ika

No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 7 - BlueBloodedToffee - DrippingGoofball - nameneeded - massive - Sorcerer Madness - Jingle - The_Trolling_Jester

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2014-12-19 22:06:59)

~~~~~
Events
~~~~~

Day 1 Starts

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:34 am
by MonkeyMan576
I actually do have a reason. Wal neighbor claimed and Jester didn't.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:28 am
by Sorcerer Madness
MonkeyMan576 wrote:I actually do have a reason. Wal neighbor claimed and Jester didn't.
I don't buy this.
VOTE: MonkeyMan576
If this is a legit reason, why is this the first time you've mentioned it as a reason since putting your vote on them?

ika wrote:
Ghostlin wrote:EBWOP: And admittedly, it's not even bugged by that much; it may be chalked up to a difference in philosphy.
When I'm town
, I believe there's no point in being coy and going somewhat balls to the wall with the bullshit nuts and bolts of scum hunting, so much so that I don't see the point in pretending to even be subtle.


Are you stating your not aligned to town with the bolded?

vote ghostlin
I really don't like this post. This just fills like it's grasping at straws.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:57 am
by MonkeyMan576
Why should I have to state my reasoning over and over again? I clearly stated in in post 26.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:00 pm
by DrippingGoofball
Wake me up when the boring neighbor innuendos are settled.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:04 pm
by MonkeyMan576
Also Jester self voted and has barely contributed since then. Doesn't exactly scream town.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:39 pm
by Jingle
I AM GROOT! I've read, but it's not really sinking in atm. I'm inclined to vote Monkey atm, but I'll see if I still feel the same way after I get back home.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:51 pm
by Jingle
I AM GROOT! http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=59403 I believe someone asked for lynx

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:15 pm
by Walpurgisnacht
I first thought MM's 104 was bullshit, but I think it's just unclear regardless of what his alignment is. however, I still think his entrance is scum for previous reasons

regardless of MM's alignment, I like SM's 105 for how he snap-called him out on what he perceived as bullshit without a second thought; and I can follow why he thought MM had just made it up

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:23 pm
by MonkeyMan576
So judging a person's alignment without thoroughly reading their reasoning and coming to a premature, faulty conclusion is town?

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:31 pm
by Walpurgisnacht
re: Kise

Kise wrote:
Ghostlin wrote:I'm not thrilled that Kise didn't engage further

I left an opportunity for someone who noticed/you to do so. Why didn't you engage him on this? You picked up the same thing as me but are quick to run and fault me instead of pursuing an open door.

I 100% agree with Ghostlin about this. you're essentially saying you think MM is suspicious, but aren't ~actually~ scum hunting him and instead want other people to do it for you.

plus, if you're going to ignore someone, it makes absolutely 0 fucking sense to call someone else out for..... doing the same thing and attacking you instead. and I don't even see what you think is scummy about him faulting you

this seems like scum addressing a town player, in all honesty; trying to discredit someone attacking them in order to make them look worse

Kise wrote:
Ghostlin wrote:Kise, if you thought MM was shifty, suspicious, etc from that interaction, why do you still have what seems to be a reason-less bullshit vote on Sorcerer? And if it isn't a random, reason-less bullshit vote, why do you have it there?

I kinda mentioned in one of my other posts that I wanted someone else to step up and dig in MM's ass (and mine). I believe that if I voted MM at that time, it would have been too influential; too easy to piggyback/bus.

A Monkey lynch is a very likely possibility though so don't count your chickens before they hatch. :wink:

(is that how the saying goes?)

the bolded line is just....... ugh. this kind of cheeky taunt is something I see coming from scum way more than town. there really is no reason for town to take this kind of potshot at another player

the other problem is I don't ~actually~ know what fault Kise has with Ghostlin's actual posts, as opposed to just the idea that Ghostlin is attacking him as opposed to MM. I really don't like how he keeps saying there was "no follow up" with the way Ghostlin handled this situation - it's pretty fucking obvious Ghostlin calling them out for it was his method of trying to interact over it - and I don't even see what in literally anything else he is pointing out is scummy.

Ank and I haven't convened about this yet, but from what I can tell he has the exact opposite opinion. will figure that out later

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:33 pm
by Walpurgisnacht
MonkeyMan576 wrote:So judging a person's alignment without thoroughly reading their reasoning and coming to a premature, faulty conclusion is town?

that is not at all what I am saying

town are more likely to react in a fluid and immediate manner when they think they notice someone BS'ing. it's not about the reasoning or the conclusion, it's about SM's thought process. it is obvious that he didn't connect your 104 to what you said, and, from HIS POV, I can see why he would call you out on it and I think the way he did it looked town

what is your read on SM? if you don't have a scum read on him, I don't get what the purpose of this statement is.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:37 pm
by MonkeyMan576
Walpurgisnacht wrote:
MonkeyMan576 wrote:So judging a person's alignment without thoroughly reading their reasoning and coming to a premature, faulty conclusion is town?

that is not at all what I am saying

town are more likely to react in a fluid and immediate manner when they think they notice someone BS'ing. it's not about the reasoning or the conclusion, it's about SM's thought process. it is obvious that he didn't connect your 104 to what you said, and, from HIS POV, I can see why he would call you out on it and I think the way he did it looked town

what is your read on SM? if you don't have a scum read on him, I don't get what the purpose of this statement is.


I agree acting in an immediate manner is pro town, but coming to faulty conclusions is not pro town, so null at this point.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:40 pm
by MonkeyMan576
By the way, I always attract day 1 attention for some reason regardless of my alignment, so I am more interested in people's reasoning for attacking me more than worried about being lynched.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:42 pm
by Walpurgisnacht
MonkeyMan576 wrote:I agree acting in an immediate manner is pro town, but coming to faulty conclusions is not pro town, so null at this point.

1. if you're not scum reading him, what is the point in trying to argue against my town read on him?

2. this logic is really bad. are you srsly suggesting that a town player won't ever do anything misguided? you're essentially arguing that he's scum bc he didn't fully understand your post.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:59 pm
by MonkeyMan576
Not every read is town or scum.

I'm not suggesting town players don't act misguided. I'm saying scum players can "act misguided" as a way of getting a town player lynched.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:04 pm
by Ghostlin
DrippingGoofball wrote:Wake me up when the boring neighbor innuendos are settled.


That's..Not really what we're talking about. What do you think about Monkey? Hell, comment on ANY damn wagon. It sounds like you don't give two fucks, which frankly worries the shit out of me.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:30 pm
by Walpurgisnacht
MonkeyMan576 wrote:Not every read is town or scum.

. . .

that doesn't answer my question. if you didn't have a scum read on him, what was the point in trying to take a shit on my read? I ask this bc I think the way you went about it looks more like scum throwing dirt than town actually forming a read.

MonkeyMan576 wrote:I'm not suggesting town players don't act misguided. I'm saying scum players can "act misguided" as a way of getting a town player lynched.

yes, but you aren't saying ~why~ you think SM is scum doing so as opposed to town being misguided

you are also saying this after you said you agreed with me the rest of his thought process was more likely town.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:34 pm
by MonkeyMan576
Walpurgisnacht wrote:
MonkeyMan576 wrote:Not every read is town or scum.

. . .

that doesn't answer my question. if you didn't have a scum read on him, what was the point in trying to take a shit on my read? I ask this bc I think the way you went about it looks more like scum throwing dirt than town actually forming a read.

MonkeyMan576 wrote:I'm not suggesting town players don't act misguided. I'm saying scum players can "act misguided" as a way of getting a town player lynched.

yes, but you aren't saying ~why~ you think SM is scum doing so as opposed to town being misguided

you are also saying this after you said you agreed with me the rest of his thought process was more likely town.


Because I had an issue with your read. If I have an issue with the read, why wouldn't I bring it up? Even if another read nullfies it?

That's not exactly what I said. I said his reasoning was scum but his quick responces were town.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:40 pm
by Walpurgisnacht
MonkeyMan576 wrote:Because I had an issue with your read. If I have an issue with the read, why wouldn't I bring it up? Even if another read nullfies it?

then you are attempting to sort me? or attempting to sort SM?

MonkeyMan576 wrote:That's not exactly what I said. I said his reasoning was scum but his quick responces were town.

well yeah

I'm asking *why* you think his reasoning is more likely scum, as opposed to misguided town.

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:41 pm
by Walpurgisnacht
KiseKiseKiseKiseKiseKise

Kise wrote:A Monkey lynch is a very likely possibility though so don't count your chickens before they hatch. :wink:
(is that how the saying goes?)


Explain why you posted this to me, please.

(pieguy and I are syncing btw, pretty close to done)

-Ank

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:43 pm
by MonkeyMan576
Wal wrote:]
Walpurgisnacht wrote:
MonkeyMan576 wrote:Because I had an issue with your read. If I have an issue with the read, why wouldn't I bring it up? Even if another read nullfies it?

then you are attempting to sort me? or attempting to sort SM?


I'm trying to sort everyone, obviously.

MonkeyMan576 wrote:That's not exactly what I said. I said his reasoning was scum but his quick responces were town.

well yeah

I'm asking *why* you think his reasoning is more likely scum, as opposed to misguided town.


Because I know I am an easy day 1 target and an easy way for scum to get a day 1 town lynch. So I am cautious of anyone that jumps to quick, faulty conclusions.