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↑ singersigner wrote:

↑ Grib wrote:

↑ singersigner wrote:I see confident statements like these more frequently from scum who know who they can buddy up to and be "right" about. The lack of stating who also leaves you open for changing it later and filling in the blanks based on who you think will be more universally on your side.

And yet, you haven't done anything to figure out if that's exactly what I'm doing.

You assume I didn't.

I did.

Thank you for clarifying, though.

unvote
vote: Grib

I'm waiting.

Also,

↑ Grib wrote:Why are you voting for him?

grib, what are you?

↑ singersigner wrote:@mollie...hoooooooboy. We're gunna have to get real here. First off, you're cherry-picking my general statement of me not being able to read you well because I tend to be easily influenced by posting style over content, which has made me a less-than-confident player, which you know. Second of all, I'm not sure how you got me saying that you're hyper-aware of your meta as saying I thought you were over-sensitive about it, but I believe you when you say you don't care. Maybe you will if you're going to get mislynched for it, who knows.

And I fucking hate it when people are like "I trust you to do the right thing" because it manipulates someone to read you a certain way by automatically influencing their subconscious with the illusion of ooomustbetown. I think "fearmongering" is an appropriate buzzword? (I really don't know if that applies as much as I think it does)

I forgot ZZZX was in RRR, so oooshiney all you want? If you try making that a scumtell it'll just make my job easier.

Why don't you let Fro99er take more of a lead? Maybe be more transparent with his thoughts?

froggy wanted to vote you so that we cld get a read on you. do you know what I told him? I said that you were an emotional player and its best to give you time rather than wagon you off the bat cos it was likely to set you off if you were town and interfere with your scumhunting. then I said let other pple wagon you that way if you flip out it won't be on us.

I think that we can read you based off of your interactions with other players and I wld like to give you some space. shld I have let you get wagoned up? froggy will make his entrance when he is ready. right now fresh out of newbies he is probs going like "wtf is going on".

I was not cherry picking. I was addressing a direct statement about me and pointing out that

style /= scum

I only addressed what was directed to me cos the rest was directed towards other players and I didn't feel it necessary to interfere?

also the hyper awareness piece came from this statement:

Could you link to the game? I'm not gunna lie, mollie, I really don't like when people right out of the gate have a sense of hyper-awareness of how they play from game to game. It's statements like these that already ping my paranoia.

^ that sort of implies that you think I am being oversensitive about it and you find it scummy or am I wrong?

also

shiny /= scumtell

for me, shiny things are things that in my paranoid mind I easily latch onto and convince myself that somehow they are scum motivated. this is something I have been trying to correct in my play for a while with pretty good success. so I acknowledge the shiny things but don't latch onto them like I used to.

also saying "I trust you to come to the right conclusion" is not fearmongering, fearmongering is saying there is a 4th scumteam and that the game is a 1:2.47 scum to town ratio and trying to lynch pple based on that reasoning when there is no evidence to indicate that is even remotely true. its what scum!titus tried to do in hu2.

I lean town on you cos I like some of your angles and they point to a town mindset even if I disagree with some of them. 1 point that I liked is that scum tend to want to stretch out the confirm/rvs stage in order to organize themselves cos I know I sure as hell have done that as scum I have dragged out the confirm stage until the mod pms me and is like "really". <---- this is what I mean by your thinking seems to come from a town mindset.

eta: ffs xposts

↑ ika wrote:grib, what are you?

I am the Witchhunter.

(town)

Sorry for not posting before; I'm very busy at work (and on a really short break) but I'll be about this evening.

Quick initial reads say that Pirate Mollie and her companion are town, Plum seems pretty town ... and now I'm drawing a blank on what I just read.

I will do better this evening. Sorry for the short check-in but I know I'm in this game and I will attend to it tonight.

↑ singersigner wrote:What don't you agree with? There's no read to agree or disagree with. I was caught confirming before work in my own futile effort to get as many confirmations in as possible and they voted me for not reading or commenting on anything yet. What is there to "see where it goes" when it didn't start...anywhere...

Also, how do you say scum-Mollie would go for this approach but propose it would look entirely differently? Why do you disagree with her push on MS?

that may or may not be exactly why I don't agree with the scum reads on you. "see where it goes" was my way of saying I wanted to see your response to it before giving my opinion

I'm not saying scum-mollie would necessarily go for this approach - just that *if* she did, it would likely look different than here. if you try to buddy up to a bunch of people at the start of the game, you would likely not do it by BS'ing a push on them. and if she wouldn't, it's a moot point.

I don't think MS sheeping ika is alignment indicative. I don't think MS asking Andy who he's familiar with is alignment indicative either - I could just as easily see it coming from town-him as scum-him.

↑ elusive wrote:RQS Questions
If you’re town answer, if you don’t answer vig gets a nice clear headshot
1. Which element would you choose (theme related) – Water, Wind, or Warmth?
2. Choose a player you’ve played with already in this game and describe their town vs. scum meta
3. Choose a player you don’t know at all and ask them a question.

1. don't have a clue. water just bc I like water
2. MS always appears as lynchbait when he's town, but he's not. if you look at the actual motivation behind his posts, he's usually pretty obviously town. scum MS functions by making a bunch of posts in order to obfuscate and hoping no one realizes nothing he's saying actually makes any sense.
3. if I see something I want to ask about, I'll ask about it.

↑ elusive wrote:P-Edit: Don't like singer's vote on the player who hasn't even confirmed, it avoids direct interactions with anyone.

you realize she was asking a bunch of people questions in the post directly above the post where she voted, correct?

↑ Andrius wrote:Pretty excited for singer as well and she addressed a couple things very well.

what, specifically, did singer address well?

↑ ika wrote:how about this then, do you think anyone here who is going "person is town based on metea" or un specified read list is scum right now? what are your thoughts on players? your also relativly new (to me at least) so we can talk for a bit.

I do have a question that i asked any but i will ask you, do you 2 know each other IRL or something?

The people who are going 'x, y, z Town' or whatever, based on meta more or less (I can't tell, and only specifically thought of your behavior towards MS as meta-directed due to what Frogmollie said, as she seemed to have reason to think so) are actually kinda null to me. Certainly those specific instances with Grib, WNI, and now to a lesser degree (due to discussion) yourself aren't really readable to me, at least at this time. It's not scummy, but it's often opaque. I can tell you it's not helping me get reads on the people making those statements or the people they're making statements about.

But Grib's looking somewhat off. Calling out singer for not probing his opaque game-opening two-Tolwnread call doesn't fit too well. How could she probe if it were calculated buddying, or if it were deliberately left open so Grib could claim Townreads on any two of the three who had yet posted, before Grib came in to make a second post? And even so, the whole point is that scum could use either or both tactics and have plenty of plausible deniability.

WNI makes his statements after all those involved have posted a few times. Clarifies his read on mollie when it comes up. So, meh.

Rearding Andrius, we don't know each other IRL, but we're both Tolkien geeks and we ran Lord of the Rings Mafia together a while back and stuff. Got lots of nostalgia for that.

Preview edit: Ah, singer, Grib. Perfect. You know what? UNVOTE:
VOTE: Grib

Second preview edit, what.

ok so im about to head out for guys afernoon fun

so heres a read list for everyone to dicuss while im out:

town:
boo
elusive
Frogging Mollie (pirate mollie + Frogger)
ika

lean towns:
Andrius
Grib
plume
White Night Imagination

nulls/scums
6. Hydrangea
8. Metal Sonic
12. Yukari
13. ZZZX

yes POE is that fast and easy

I'm calling out singer for vague!voting me and not answering my question.

ika, I think you forgot singer.

singer is in null

i trust mollie more to sort her then me also i know signers inhernt nature of reactivity

↑ ika wrote:add in grib and elusive and i think we are set atm

can you walk me through these? namely elusive

↑ Frogging Mollie wrote:pretty sure posts 25 and 29 were me ineracting with you, yeah? so that is a lie. i thought your responses were crappy so i voted you.

nick is froggy. I had just got done explaining to froggy as to why I was voting you and making sure he was okay with that. and I feel good about you being scum for the reasons that I stated. gold is a good thing cos i think your OMGUS is scummy as fuck. hitting scum is hitting gold to me.

you're on the wrong track here

what MS is saying is that while, yes, you are interacting with him, none of the questions you're asking him are particularly good or useful

↑ Frogging Mollie wrote:also I am probs not gonna answer elusive's questions I think they are pointless and idc if she thinks it is a scumclaim. it isn't. it is me wanting to get shit done cos I usually have the lifespan of a housefly when I am town and I don't have time to cater things that I don't feel like is particularly meaningful.

mebbe I am just uncreative.

I don't like this post. I'm fairly sure the questions she asked require basically 0 effort to answer. in fact, I think this post would have required more effort to make than actually answering the questions. this reads more like you're attempting to appear like you want to be productive, without actually accomplishing anything.

↑ Grib wrote:ika is a townlean for being interested in the game. elusive is a stronger townlean for her pregame post ('/hope' is such a town!elusive thing to do) and for her first game post.

do you think she wouldn't think to fake "/hope" as scum?

what in her first game post was town?

↑ Bookitty wrote:Quick initial reads say that Pirate Mollie and her companion are town, Plum seems pretty town ... and now I'm drawing a blank on what I just read.

walk me through why Plum is town?

I think singer *might* be town, but I'm not particularly sure about it. I also liked Plum's 108 to some extent.

I don't have a problem with mollie beyond that one post I quoted.

↑ ZZZX wrote:mollie please sign ur hydras posts btw

It should be easy to tell who is Mollie and who is Fro99er.

Didn't like your Elusive vote.

Hi everyone, I am Seras(a tulpa) and Manu is my host. Together we are Yukari, though not technically considered a hydra since we share a physical body irl.

Anyways, we have only played in newbie games here so far, and it has been a while. Would still consider ourselves newbs, but we are here mostly because required to become SE. The setup seems a bit strange to us, trying to wrap mind around how to use it and proc of elimination to determine the actual setup. In particular there is this:

↑ Ankamius wrote:
c)

This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.

So could this be any extra role ever used on the site? Is there a possible extra role in each pool or extra hidden pools? Any clarification here or on the setup in general would be appreciated.

Oh, and msg to scum: please NK yukari N1 so we can get back to being allowed to play a simple game thanks. If not, we do not intend to replace out, would just prefer to make this quick as the setup and such is confusing.

singer wrote:@Andy...I haven't had great experiences with ZZZX, either. In the game I played with him, he didn't claim beloved princess until he got rung up on like D4, and scum kept him alive for the win on D6. In another I saw him claim that he was useless early game, but "wait until late game, I really shine then!" It's not like I'm thrilled to play with someone who makes calculatedly bad choices as town, but what do you expect to "be done" about ZZZX? I'm not opposed to policy lynches in large games, because numbers imply town can recover from a mislynch, but in a smaller game you can't just use that as an opportunity to "teach someone a lesson" in the ways they suck as a mafia player.

I do think this makes you more town, though, since I think scum are more likely to ignore him until they're forced to bus, or allow him to stay alive for mislynch fodder later (or to just make the wrong decision in lylo as he's bound to do).

He made a big deal about how he plays to win LyLo and didn't really do reads or anything productive at all the game leading up to his death. I just did not get the impression that he was a team player and I haven't heard any good things about his play.

singer wrote:I do think this makes you more town, though, since I think scum are more likely to ignore him until they're forced to bus, or allow him to stay alive for mislynch fodder later (or to just make the wrong decision in lylo as he's bound to do).

I wasn't quite expecting this but ok I understand where you're coming from at least.
I was expecting some sort of 'low-hanging fruit' argument but it seems on one here has a problem with his play/him besides us.

Plum wrote:(Andrius, I'm amused that this game's elements roughly correspond to Arda's thematic elements).

I had not noticed that. Color me intrigued.

Plum wrote:Andrius - fine, consider me duly informed that ZZZX is someone you feel strongly enough about to pursue this and will keep in mind your presumed strong opinion that he might be a major detriment to the Town regardless of alignment. Now let's do stuff that is related to alignment.

Of course.

Plum wrote:You really think so?

On second thought, no. I didn't really notice the lone confirm as a thing until ika said something about it - but singer has not been shy or withholding at all so. Definitely not a big deal.
Furthermore I don't think it has a particular bearing on her alignment.

White Night wrote:

what, specifically, did singer address well?

I liked her responses regarding Grib and mollie - its very singer of her and I can see her train of thought so to speak? Does that make sense? I won't claim to know her very well but we've played some rather invovled games together and I know her a bit outside of mafia games enough; I digress - those were good thoughts that I thought appropriate and agreed with.

Grib is on the radar.
Yukari hasn't posted anything of merit(?).

↑ Grib wrote:

↑ ika wrote:grib, what are you?

I am the Witchhunter.

(town)

is this 1 of those dumb fakeclaims where you try to fish out players based on the roleclaim when all it does is successfully out speshuls due to set-up design? its like fishing off of a vt role pm and it shld never be done. hai metal

god I wish you pple wld stop doing this. it never works out and then you wonder why scum win so many games you play in.

you are in the unsure pile

↑ Frogging Mollie wrote:

↑ ZZZX wrote:mollie please sign ur hydras posts btw

It should be easy to tell who is Mollie and who is Fro99er.

before I address other posts I just want to point out that zzthing knew it was me but wanted us to sign our posts cos he seemed a bit confused about who was posting.

that is all.

Oh fiiiiine.

For transparency's sake, so everyone can see what I'm seeing:
You made a statement.
I told you how I interpreted that statement.
I said some other words to some other people.
Then I encouraged you to come back out and play.
You then made a defensive statement that in no way explained what you were actually doing (which was something I called you out on).
(you also asked me a question that was answered if you really were reading and trying to get a handle on the game and reads including me)
You voted the one person to call you out on it.

Basically all I've seen from you has been anything but trying to parse out the game outside of buddying up to people in your circle. It doesn't feel like you're bothering to get a read on the "not easy people" to read, since if you're familiar with them, that should fall in place eventually, right?

Where did I go wrong?

Preview Edit:

Grib wrote:I'm calling out singer for vague!voting me and not answering my question.

Apparently my post didn't post after I preview posted so...guess that makes me scum then!

Fffff...more preview edits. Taking a breaking because I'm headaching.

↑ elusive wrote:
If you’re town answer, if you don’t answer vig gets a nice clear headshot

Don't like the way you said this. Vig isn't even in the list of roles given in the setup.

↑ Yukari wrote:

Vote: Metal sonic

Didn't like your Elusive vote.

Explain please.

↑ White Night Imagination wrote:you're on the wrong track here

what MS is saying is that while, yes, you are interacting with him, none of the questions you're asking him are particularly good or useful

WAT

do you think that metal's question's are particularly useful?

[]yes
[]no

cos if you think my responses were not "good" or "useful" then you wld have to address the questions themselves in the first place which you seem reluctant to do? cos you are saying it is not alignment indicative and I am not sure how you are getting there cos at the time of his posting he was asking inane questions which have nothing to do with scumhunting and I am wondering how you are missing that.

I don't like this post. I'm fairly sure the questions she asked require basically 0 effort to answer. in fact, I think this post would have required more effort to make than actually answering the questions. this reads more like you're attempting to appear like you want to be productive, without actually accomplishing anything.

I think answering the questions are more of an attempt to look productive than not really feeling like I need to answer the questions at all.

good to know that elusive is probs town, thanks for that.

do you think she wouldn't think to fake "/hope" as scum?

what in her first game post was town?

like how do these 2 sentences even match up with a cognitive flow. he said that he read her as town cos of "/hope" confirm but then you question as to what in her first game post that he found townie? when he said it was her first game post?

this does not even make sense.

↑ Andrius wrote:I liked her responses regarding Grib and mollie - its very singer of her and I can see her train of thought so to speak? Does that make sense? I won't claim to know her very well but we've played some rather invovled games together and I know her a bit outside of mafia games enough; I digress - those were good thoughts that I thought appropriate and agreed with.

I think I agree with this. at least the part about mollie - I liked the way she immediately came out pushing her out the gate and I can see what she was picking up on.

I still can't make anything out of singer vs. Grib. while I think Grib was correct in calling her out for jumping to a conclusion over the town reads he gave, I do not think this is scummy - and I do not think Grib's posts have been telling either way. do you scum read Grib at this point?

↑ singersigner wrote:Basically all I've seen from you has been anything but trying to parse out the game outside of buddying up to people in your circle. It doesn't feel like you're bothering to get a read on the "not easy people" to read, since if you're familiar with them, that should fall in place eventually, right?

will wait for Grib to respond to this before explaining in-depth, but I don't agree with your read on him so far.