Mafiascum.net

↑ Draynth wrote:

↑ Dierfire wrote:I agree with Draynth in broad terms that Necargo's vote and reasoning is suspicious if Honest is Town. I'm still not convinced of that, however. In particular, from his recent series of posts, I'm not seeing how BBT was "too pushy" but Necargo is Town for being "vocal" (whatever that means).

Why do those two things make you unsure of Honest being town?
And why is Necargo's vote only suspicious if Honest is town?

If Necargo is pushing Honest using faulty logic, and is doing so because he is Mafia, then Honest should be Town, right? Unless you think that Necargo would make that same push on his partner?
Those other two things are really one thing--it feels arbitrary to read Necargo as Town for being "vocal" while voting BBT for being "too pushy" (unless Honest wishes to clarify those phrases in a way that makes more sense). The whole series of posts just seems...off. He's tossing out reads while saying that he doesn't know how to read people, and promising to post later in a way that makes me think that he's stalling.

in case it isn't counted already
Will re-read later

↑ MasonP wrote:Hi everyone! Glad to see the game started. VOTE: zerosummer

Was this a serious vote Mason?

↑ YurikoJasmine wrote:Let's not hammer until the two of us get to say something (or get replaced)

Can you clarify this please Yuri? Who is 'the two of us'?

↑ necargoface wrote:
So, by skimming (because I'm lazy) we have an L-2 because... someone doesn't like RVS's? Is that a legit reason to put someone at L-1? At least we didn't get an intent to hammer (because that would just be hilariously bad).

So, here's my RV (although not actually an RV because his vote was odd and somewhat scummy):

VOTE: Honest Because his avatar is ironic. That's L-1.

Hmm, criticizes wagons based on bad reasons and then votes Honest to put him at L-1. Necargo, what was odd about Honest's vote and why was it scummy?

↑ necargoface wrote:One post in the whole game so far with no context whatsoever and no actual input to the game? Better reason. I'm not moving my vote until Honest posts and actually puts something into the game.

I am voting because he has posted once this entire game with a naked, contextless, useless post, and has not responded to any of the resulting backlash.

Your reasoning for your vote is very subtly changing. First it was because his vote was 'odd and scummy' and now it's because Honest is not contributing to the thread.

↑ necargoface wrote:
He could flip town. I don't think he would, but he could. I will violently go after anyone who randomly hammers without stating an intent to hammer because random hammering doesn't give the defendant a chance to speak.

And if he flipped scum?

↑ YurikoJasmine wrote:I disagree with the content/ mindset towards RV in 68 but it looks pretty town motivated to me

Can you expand on this? Why is it town motivated?

This post feels scummy, like you have just thrown together a bunch of buzzwords.

↑ Honest wrote:Also yuriko. But literally I don't even k ow what to look for.

[IC]You're looking for the motivations behind what people post. Why did they post it, what are they trying to do with that post, do their reads make sense, are they genuinely looking for scum or trying to look busy, do you agree with other people's reasoning for their reads, if not why not? These are a few starting points to help you get started.[IC]

↑ YurikoJasmine wrote:However his recent posts look bad. Can't decide if it's newbtown bad or scum bad

What is bad about his recent posting?

Dier, can I get a brief reads list from you please?

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:

↑ necargoface wrote:
So, by skimming (because I'm lazy) we have an L-2 because... someone doesn't like RVS's? Is that a legit reason to put someone at L-1? At least we didn't get an intent to hammer (because that would just be hilariously bad).

So, here's my RV (although not actually an RV because his vote was odd and somewhat scummy):

VOTE: Honest Because his avatar is ironic. That's L-1.

Hmm, criticizes wagons based on bad reasons and then votes Honest to put him at L-1. Necargo, what was odd about Honest's vote and why was it scummy?

↑ necargoface wrote:One post in the whole game so far with no context whatsoever and no actual input to the game? Better reason. I'm not moving my vote until Honest posts and actually puts something into the game.

I am voting because he has posted once this entire game with a naked, contextless, useless post, and has not responded to any of the resulting backlash.

Your reasoning for your vote is very subtly changing. First it was because his vote was 'odd and scummy' and now it's because Honest is not contributing to the thread.

↑ necargoface wrote:
He could flip town. I don't think he would, but he could. I will violently go after anyone who randomly hammers without stating an intent to hammer because random hammering doesn't give the defendant a chance to speak.

And if he flipped scum?

1.It had no context, was a naked vote, and had no explanation at the time, which is scummy, at least to me.
2.It was both, actually. Now, all of his posts seem a bit off. He still seems to be fluff posting and stalling, although subtly.
3. I would still go after the person that randomly hammered because it would either be luck or a bus that caused the hammer (when the flip is scum). It's usually the latter by my experience.

↑ Draynth wrote:

↑ necargoface wrote:
-I am generally lazy.
-I generally like wagons (probably because I'm lazy)

This is just an easy get out of jail free card if he get's caught later in the game for jumping on tons of wagons.

↑ necargoface wrote:

↑ Draynth wrote:@Necargoface: It seems weird to me that you have an issue with people putting someone at L-1 and yet you put someone at L-1 with your 'RV'.

Thank you for putting "RV" in quotation marks, because it was not really an RV. Definitely not actually an RV.

This post directly contradicts his 68 where he says

'I like RV's. I didn't get to make one in the early stages. I made an RV.

'
He keeps saying that his vote was an RV, but then gives a reason. The meaning of an RV is

Random Vote

, ie. Voting without a

legitimate

reason.
I don't have a problem with him opening the game with an RV, or opening with a legit vote. I have an issue when he tries to pass off his vote as an RV. My guess is that if someone were to quickhammer, please for the love of god don't, then he will just say 'It was an RV, I wasn't on that wagon'.

↑ necargoface wrote:

↑ Draynth wrote:

↑ necargoface wrote:
Vote stays on Honest because he hasn't posted since the vote explaining why he should not be hammered.

That's an awful reason for your vote

I am voting because he has posted once this entire game with a naked, contextless, useless post,

and has not responded to any of the resulting backlash

.

Given the fact that at the time he hadn't posted anything else, or on any other threads on the site, why is this scummy?

↑ necargoface wrote:
Because we shouldn't hammer Honest until he responds to all the backlash he's getting.

This could just be a grammar error, if that's the right way to phrase it, but doesn't this imply that you want someone to hammer no matter how he responds?

↑ necargoface wrote:
The reason I put the RV label on it is because I like RV's and wanted to make an RV, but didn't want to input nothing to that post either. Not because I have a horrid reason.

Again, saying it's an RV then also saying it's not an RV.

↑ necargoface wrote:God, I'm bad at remembering to reply to all the posts that I want to.

↑ Dierfire wrote:

↑ necargoface wrote:Vote stays on Honest because he hasn't posted since the vote explaining why he should not be hammered. I will still violently go after whomever hammers him without warning, however.

It sounds as though you think that he would flip Town. Do you?

He could flip town. I don't think he would, but he could.

How can you

possibly

think this? He had made

one

post. One.

↑ necargoface wrote:

↑ ZeroSummer wrote:I mean of course he's null. He has one post which is just a naked vote. We shouldn't hammer until he posts more though.

This. We shouldn't hammer Honest yet because he is a nul read to many, because many can't tell intentions when a person posts a total of 2(-4) words.

If he's a null read to many, as you said yourself you can't tell intentions from one post, why are you so adamant that he is scum?
Finally is my issue with necargo for putting Honest at L-1 with his 'Rv'-'Not RV'-'legit vote'-whatever you wanna call it. Why not just state your dissatisfaction with the post, and look through other posts so far to come up with a scum read? The only reason I can see you doing this is to rolefish.
VOTE: Necargoface

1. Nope. It's just true. I jump on wagons, and I'm lazy. I am just lazy, but I only jump on wagons when I feel there's a reason to. I jump on wagons "because wagons" because that's a stupid play.
2. Not wrong. I put this vote under an "RV" label, mainly because I, like I said, like RV's, and wanted to put under that label. Also, hammering with an "RV" is completely stupid and anyone who does it should feel bad... and also get lynched. If Honest were already at L-1, there's no chance that I would vote him.
3. It's closer to "he didn't give me a reason yet to unvote him."
4. If that did imply that we lynch him either way, it wasn't supposed to.
5. It's not an RV, I put under that label. I'm pretty sure I've made this clear from the start.
6. You can say a lot (or very little, as Honest did) with one post. Also, how can I believe that there is a chance of both options happening? It's like flipping a coin. I think it'll land heads, but there is definitely a chance of it landing tails.
7. Because he's the biggest scum read for me this game.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Dier, can I get a brief reads list from you please?

In brief: Mason and Axwell are Null due to insufficient content. I'm leaning Town on BBT and Yuriko (both for apparent progression of reads). I remain suspicious of Honest and Necargo (Necargo is particularly suspicious if Honest is Town as mentioned previously). I need to read Zero and Draynth again.

PEDIT: I see that Necargo just posted but I don't have time to read that right now. I'll be back in a few hours.

I haven't seen a reason not to vote Honest yet. will reread tonight though with some thoughts.

The two of us referred to the two people that hadn't post/ were inactive.

As for other things will address tomorrow

All right, I'm back. I see that we are waiting on several people so I will go ahead with a more complete list of reads. Players and categories are listed in ascending order of suspicion. I'm leaving the two non-posters off of the list because I have nothing useful to say about them.



started the game strongly by building wagons in RVS, which gave us some good information for later analysis. I see evidence that he is sorting the players internally in the series of posts beginning with 102.

appears to be working through reads. I thought that the questions directed at Zero in 21 and 29 were good. I have very complex feelings about 70: I disagree with its content, and continue to find Necargo suspicious. I disagree with BBT that the post itself was suspicious, however, especially because I cannot easily see the rationale for a Mafia player to say this of a Town player. If Yuriko and Necargo are both Mafia then we should lynch Necargo first anyway.



is asking many questions, but some of them feel short-sighted. For example, asking Zero why he is opposed to RVS (17) and asking me about my phrasing (46) seem unlikely to advance the game or help him discern our alignments. On the other hand, I find his votes well-placed and his case on Necargo (93) was mostly good.

is a bit low on content. I'm not bothered by the lack of RVS or the discussion that it engendered, but I think that Zero missed a good opportunity to provide us some thoughts on his wagon in 30. I'd guess that he's reading his entire wagon as Town or Null, but I would have liked some more detailed thoughts.



took an approach to Honest's wagon that doesn't make much sense to me. He placed the fourth vote on the wagon in 53 while claiming that Honest's vote was "odd" but did not expound on this. His attitude towards the hammer (106) was also strange to me, and I could easily see the attitude (automatic suspicion of the hammer vote regardless of the flip) coming from Mafia that placed the fourth vote on a Town player. I was thinking that Honest would have to be Town if Necargo were Mafia based on these factors, but I'm also suspicious of Honest.

had a bit of a weird entrance. If his initial vote on BBT (27) was because he found BBT's RVS wagons suspicious, then he should have said so. I found his later positive characterization of Necargo as "vocal" (91) incongruous with his vote on BBT. His latest series of posts seemed designed to stall, with professions of incompetence that, to me, seemed out of place for someone who has played a few games before (even if he did replace out of those games).

If Yuriko and Necargo are both Mafia then we should lynch Necargo first anyway.

What suggested we are mafia together instead of town v mafia or town v town and why should we lynch necargoface first if we were mafia together?

I'll post some responses tomorrow guys, I'm super tired today. Sorry

↑ Dierfire wrote:
If Necargo is pushing Honest using faulty logic, and is doing so because he is Mafia, then Honest should be Town, right? Unless you think that Necargo would make that same push on his partner?

Hmm ok, I see where you are coming from.

↑ ZeroSummer wrote:I haven't seen a reason not to vote Honest yet. will reread tonight though with some thoughts.

Do you have those thoughts?

↑ Dierfire wrote:

MAFIA

Necargo

took an approach to Honest's wagon that doesn't make much sense to me. He placed the fourth vote on the wagon in 53 while claiming that Honest's vote was "odd" but did not expound on this. His attitude towards the hammer (106) was also strange to me, and I could easily see the attitude (automatic suspicion of the hammer vote regardless of the flip) coming from Mafia that placed the fourth vote on a Town player. I was thinking that Honest would have to be Town if Necargo were Mafia based on these factors, but I'm also suspicious of Honest.

Honest

had a bit of a weird entrance. If his initial vote on BBT (27) was because he found BBT's RVS wagons suspicious, then he should have said so. I found his later positive characterization of Necargo as "vocal" (91) incongruous with his vote on BBT. His latest series of posts seemed designed to stall, with professions of incompetence that, to me, seemed out of place for someone who has played a few games before (even if he did replace out of those games).

I understand that you have these two reads in ascending order of suspicion (Ie, Honest is scummier), but isn't it contradictory to have them both as scum reads for D1? Do you think it's likely that they would bus each other on D1 if they were scum together?

Also welcome Dwlee!

↑ Draynth wrote:Also welcome Dwlee!

Thanks.

Anyway though, based on what I've read yuriko seems a bit suspicious to me because they haven't posted anything of much use. Other than that necargo is stating RVs when they're not that as his reasons later stated.

Do people on mafia scum not post as much? I'm used to constant talk on forums I normally play mafia on..

It depends on time zones mostly, For example its 12.40am for me right now, and once I wake up there will probably be another page or two for me to read. This game is quite a slow one, but there is usually a lot more posting from my experience. The replacements always slow games down a tad.

Hey guys! It's me, the lovable lowercase. I'll get my thoughts together in just a second, so bear with me here.

First thoughts:

Yuriko's insistence on attacking Cargo's 'RV' thing is comically missing the point, which is a common scum tactic.

Draynth sort of does the same thing as yuriko though. It's weird that even though cargo's vote is actually opportunistic and arguably scummy, both of the retaliatory votes on him included such a skeevy point.

Nothing Honest has posted so far comes off as scummy. The naked vote was not opportunistic and the reason behind it was sort of obvious, so it wasn't all that bad. His posts are a little lazy but they don't strike me as bad in any of the ways I'm looking for at this juncture. Still, if he doesn't start posting more, I don't want to see him anywhere near lylo.

I want to see more reads from ZS.