Mini Normal 2050: Serial Killers - Game Over

[Mewtaph]

Well, now I see you're suggesting OMGUSing twice is scum-indicative, for when asked to elaborate, you referred back to the timing; when asked to elaborate on

that

, you referred back to my votes following when another player has voted me (essentially just saying OMGUS is scummy). Is there a more player-specifc reason why you're scum reading me?

[Xtoxm]

Podoboq unvoting is a town instinct. I like it

[LolWagons]

Well, now I see you're suggesting OMGUSing twice is scum-indicative, for when asked to elaborate, you referred back to the timing; when asked to elaborate on

that

, you referred back to my votes following when another player has voted me (essentially just saying OMGUS is scummy). Is there a more player-specifc reason why you're scum reading me?

OMGUSing twice on people who have players on their bandwagons within four pages is scummy. Yes. Player specifics do not matter. It shows a focus on lynching those that suspect you and those that are also vulnerable to a lynch which is literally the cookie cutter way to play as mafia.

Normally I wouldn’t really count my wagon in the two because it was the transition from RVS but your push on it came across as contrived, in addition to being opportunistic and OMGUS. The subsequent backing down felt unnatural as well.

[Dannflor]

When placing my vote, the intention was to bring the wagon to L-2. lolwagon's vote brings the wagon to L-1, regardless of the order in which our two votes were placed. I didn't want the wagon sitting on L-1.

By placing a vote at L-2, the intention is to get reactions from not only Mewtaph, but other players, without the immediate risk of lolhammers or Mewtaph claiming as a surprise town pr. If directly after my vote, the wagon is at L-1, whether it's because another person immediately followed me by voting or the previous L-2 was missed, my vote is no longer accomplishing its goal.

I think the order is incredibly important. You intention was to bring the wagon to L-2, but you afterwards realized it had been the vote to bring the wagon to L-1 instead. The distinction of whose vote actually put Mewtaph at L-1 is important imo, and from your perspective, it was yours accidentally.

Podoboq, do you seriously believe someone is going to quick hammer 3 pages in and with 10 days left on the clock?

Oh, by the way, yes. I've seen lolhammers happen before, and I doubt that you haven't. Lolclaims are also a problem, where an inexperienced, frustrated, or simply bad player sees themselves at L-1 and just claims because lol. I don't think either is a positive result with this little progress into the game.

This is my first game on site for over three years, but aren't both these things still incredibly taboo? Especially considering we aren't in a newbie game? What town player is gonna quick hammer with the knowledge they'd be the next lynch target if Mewtaph flips town?

Based on your read of Mewtaph, if he is town, do you think an lolclaim would be a serious problem in putting him at L-1? I know you said his play was sloppy at best, but he seems to think about the game logically enough that I don't see something that stupid happening.

Podoboq unvoting is a town instinct. I like it

But why

OMGUSing twice on people who have players on their bandwagons within four pages is scummy. Yes. Player specifics do not matter. It shows a focus on lynching those that suspect you and those that are also vulnerable to a lynch which is literally the cookie cutter way to play as mafia.

VOTE: podoboq
Speaking of L-2s, this would be considered one of them.

Oh this is BAD. As I said before, I read the previous lolwagons vs. Mewtaph exchange as town, even the subsequent unvote is fine IMO. Felt like town willing to admit they might've been wrong. But uh.... This vote sheeping me

again

is pretty bad.

Mewtaph, you essentially naked vote podoboq here in post #80 and then every post after is basically questioning and criticizing the reasoning behind the votes on you. What the hell is your reasoning for your vote on podoboq? You're doing what I accused Doughboy of earlier in that you have an incredible self-focus where you care more about others' opinions on you than your own opinions on other people.

I assume you think podoboq is scummy, why? If it's just sheeping my vote and argument (again), why did you not respond to podoboq's own rebuttal to my argument that occurred directly before your vote? You thought no additional comment or addition necessary? You're constantly asking people to explain their reasoning and then discrediting that reasoning, yet remain shockingly opaque with your own reasoning.

Why did you vote for podoboq? because blindly following my lead or OMGUS are the two most self evident reasons, and they don't paint a pretty picture

[podoboq]

Podoboq, do you seriously believe someone is going to quick hammer 3 pages in and with 10 days left on the clock?

Oh, by the way, yes. I've seen lolhammers happen before, and I doubt that you haven't. Lolclaims are also a problem, where an inexperienced, frustrated, or simply bad player sees themselves at L-1 and just claims because lol. I don't think either is a positive result with this little progress into the game.

This is my first game on site for over three years, but aren't both these things still incredibly taboo? Especially considering we aren't in a newbie game? What town player is gonna quick hammer with the knowledge they'd be the next lynch target if Mewtaph flips town?

Based on your read of Mewtaph, if he is town, do you think an lolclaim would be a serious problem in putting him at L-1? I know you said his play was sloppy at best, but he seems to think about the game logically enough that I don't see something that stupid happening.

Yeah, both things are incredibly taboo. I haven't played on here in a year and a half, and I remember lolhammers still happened. lolclaims are more common, and I don't think highly enough of Mewtaph to assume that they wouldn't do it.

[Gamma Emerald]

You also ask "how someone should go about achieving their town win condition," instead of "how town should go about achieving their win condition," which just rubs me really wrong. If English isn't your first language, I apologize, and I'll admit that my read on you is probably miscolored. But if English is your first language, I don't see how these words, in this order, come off your keyboard. It feels extremely manicured, like somebody thinking how to present themselves as towny as possible.

I fail to see the difference? They say exactly the same thing.

"How town should go about achieving their win condition" is how I would expect the average person to think to phrase that sentence. It rolls off the tongue better, and just feels more natural. However, someone could pick you apart and say "He asked how town should achieve their win condition, leaving himself out, implying he isn't town." It's unlikely anybody would argue that, and they'd be wrong to argue it, but people could stupidly read it as a scum slip.

"How someone should go about achieving their town win condition" has this funny implication that the question asker is town. It just looks very unnatural that your question is uncomfortably framed in the way that implies that you're town.

So like a SHROOP
I can see it

[podoboq]

You also ask "how someone should go about achieving their town win condition," instead of "how town should go about achieving their win condition," which just rubs me really wrong. If English isn't your first language, I apologize, and I'll admit that my read on you is probably miscolored. But if English is your first language, I don't see how these words, in this order, come off your keyboard. It feels extremely manicured, like somebody thinking how to present themselves as towny as possible.

I fail to see the difference? They say exactly the same thing.

"How town should go about achieving their win condition" is how I would expect the average person to think to phrase that sentence. It rolls off the tongue better, and just feels more natural. However, someone could pick you apart and say "He asked how town should achieve their win condition, leaving himself out, implying he isn't town." It's unlikely anybody would argue that, and they'd be wrong to argue it, but people could stupidly read it as a scum slip.

"How someone should go about achieving their town win condition" has this funny implication that the question asker is town. It just looks very unnatural that your question is uncomfortably framed in the way that implies that you're town.

So like a SHROOP
I can see it

I just had to look that up, but yeah, that's basically exactly what I was trying to get at.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay so who posted that, again?

[podoboq]

Okay so who posted that, again?

Why engage in OMGUS this early?

What are your thoughts on how someone should go about achieving their town win condition?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah that’s pretty icky
VOTE: Mewtaph
L-1 FYI

[Dannflor]

I remember lolhammers still happened. lolclaims are more common

well that's DUMB

Well, now I see you're suggesting OMGUSing twice is scum-indicative, for when asked to elaborate, you referred back to the timing; when asked to elaborate on

that

, you referred back to my votes following when another player has voted me (essentially just saying OMGUS is scummy). Is there a more player-specifc reason why you're scum reading me?

Mewtaph, can you also answer why lolwagons thinking OMGUSing is scummy is not satisfactory to you? What was the point of your whole intro to the game if you don't think OMGUS is scummy or at the very least useless?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I doubt anyone at this table lolhammers

[mbaki]

I am not opposed to Mewtaph lynch, but this is not a hammer.

[mbaki]

Note: Multiball is not allowed in minis. Just as an FYI.

But I will say, I love your flavor.

[mbaki]

This is just explicitly wrong. The logical conclusion of this statement is that town should all claim immediately, because the more information town has the better. Concealing information from scum is also a factor, and Mewtaph's intro into this game is extremely sloppy if it's town play.

It isn't though. Lots of games would be a greater estimated victory for the town with a day 1 mass claim; however, because of the games where it is not, and because it decreases overall skill and increases overall luck of a given game, it is typically viewed as an unfavorable strategy.

The "extremely sloppy" part doesn't track with me. What?

[mbaki]

Townreading a strategic discussion comment that is completely separate of the game, Podo?

Decent scum could have just stayed quiet and let them continue to spin out.

One could also argue strategic talk is the easiest for scum to post because it doesn't take critical thinking as one can just say their true thoughts. I don't believe this is a valid reason to townread somebody

If the game was stagnant I would attempt to create content, but the game is active enough for a 9 player lobby on this site. I am just not interested in any of the content so far, nor does any of it really help me generate reads. No point shutting down activity that's helping you guys, even if I can't engage in it.

Can you explain why:
a) you aren't interested in the content
b) why it doesn't help you generate reads
c) why you can't engage with it

Yes, I could. No, I don't feel like it. I don't believe its relevant.

This whole issue is exacerbated by the fact of him jumping right back on the wagon when mbaki unvotes. Clearly he wants to push the wagon, he just doesn't want to be the one who puts him at L-1 because that draws too much attention.

I don't think the fact he revoted when I moved my vote is overly indicative, but otherwise, I agree with this post.

Not the point, his vote was to put mewtaph to L2, once Lolwagons put them to L1 then podoboq was clear that they didn't want it at L1. For me, there's a difference.

I agree with this and bristep's prior post as well.

Podoboq, do you seriously believe someone is going to quick hammer 3 pages in and with 10 days left on the clock?

Oh, by the way, yes. I've seen lolhammers happen before, and I doubt that you haven't. Lolclaims are also a problem, where an inexperienced, frustrated, or simply bad player sees themselves at L-1 and just claims because lol. I don't think either is a positive result with this little progress into the game.

I didn't find Podoboq's post before this awful, but this quoted one is not good.

[mbaki]

VOTE: Dannflor

I have no solid reads yet in either direction. If anybody wants to inquire as to why I'm voting Dannflor despite my only comments towards his slot being partially agreeing with his case, come to that conclusion yourself.

Dannflor, how competent of a scum player do you reckon you are? Can you link your most recent 2 scum games please?

[Xtoxm]

I don't have much either. I'm giving minor (and I mean minor) town pts to pod and lolwagon

[mbaki]

I love the Gorkington quote in your sig.

Ironically, I give town points to 118.

[Xtoxm]

Haha

What alignment do you think I was in that game

[mbaki]

Scum, I would guess.

[Dannflor]

Dannflor, how competent of a scum player do you reckon you are? Can you link your most recent 2 scum games please?

I reckon I'm pretty shit as scum.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=24421
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=24395

Not very recent unfortunately but these are my last scum games

[Xtoxm]

Scum, I would guess.

Nope. Town XD

[Thespio]

DescriptionYang Xinhai, also known as Yang Zhiya, and Yang Liu, was a Chinese serial killer who confessed to committing 67 murders and 23 rapes between 1999 and 2003, and was sentenced to death and executed for 67. He was dubbed the "Monster Killer" by the media.

VC

VOTE COUNT:

Mewtaph:

bristep123, podoboq, LolWagons, Gamma Emerald

[L-1]

Podoboq

Dannflor, Mewtaph

LolWagons:

Doughboy

Dannflor:

mbaki

No Vote:

Xtoxm

With 9 alive it takes 5 to Lynch.

Time Remaining:

(expired on 2018-12-27 19:05:03)

Mod Note:

I will be handing out awards at the end of the game, so play your best, none are really cool and all of them are corny so try to win! Have fun!

[mbaki]

Scum, I would guess.

Nope. Town XD

Oof.

If it makes you feel better Gorkington (and his alt accounts) has been carried in I believe all minus one of the games I have seen them as town in.