This is likely not going to be popular, but I don't care too much if they're town. Giving lurkers a pass is bad, in my opinion, even if meta is at play. It's just too good for scum.In post 98, Snowblaze wrote: @Ghost Ganster: Homura has been relatively inactive as town in previous games.
It's concerning that you have reasons to scumread nearly everyone on the playerlistIn post 85, Ghost Ganster wrote:I'd rather not say what site, sorry. It's not for mafia-related reasons, though.In post 53, Hectic wrote:Thank you! How about I only promise to troll on even posts? Odd posts will be completely, utterly, deadly serious.
What site do you come from, and do you think anything alignment-indicative has happened so far?
As for alignment-indicative things (and I'll list some things that are very borderline, here, just to further discussion, get more opinions and reactions):
-Umlaut's voting, mirroring and immediately following mine twice, looks so fishy that they actually feel like town (like "scum wouldn't do this", which is a faulty assumption, but you get where I'm coming from, I think).
-I'm generally wary of statements of facts that in actuality are opinions, so #30 (Elmo's post), looks slightly scummy, even if it's a joke (which is not clear to me).
-Raya answering your question about the most efficient way of "consuming" time as town, and then not doing it, basically at all, is slightly scummy as well.
-Your inside joking/weird hinting/trolling makes me very paranoid that I'm just not gonna be able to get a read on you and/or that I'll get annoyed at you, which will affect my opinion of you in an unhelpful way. I think being useful and cooperative is a good town trait, and in the vast majority of cases, not being so is either scummy or just good for scum.
-Snowblaze having exactly zero reads... I wouldn't say it's necessarily indicative of an alignment, but once again it's unhelpful, so it does raise my suspicions. I'm of the opinion that having bad reads (whatever "bad" means) is better than having none, so I personally wouldforcemyself to get some (if you get what I mean) in her shoes. Thankfully I'm paranoid enough that it's never going to happen, most likely. XD
-Elmo's following post was scummy as well. Not the vote itself, but the lack of an explanation and especially the one-liner used ("You can't make Lylo"), which I find very weird to say at this stage of the game.
-Your post, #68, is helpful but worded scummily, or at least the lack of an acknowledgement that you and Umlaut could both be scum is.
-Elmo's post, #69, gives me town vibes. I'm not sure I agree with it (unless here scum often makes very early hammers happen and gets away with it later?), but it's something that's worth noting in general and in a newbie game especially, and I don't think scum would do it. I feel that he could have found/bullshitted other reasons to explain his vote on Snowblaze in that case.
-Elmo's posts #78 and #79, go back to irk me, simply because I would say the wagonwasstill random voting, because at the end of the day it was based on gibus' scumclaim joke. Maybe we just have a different definition of it, though? I would be interested in knowing. Personally, I would equate random voting with "baseless", and I would include joke-votes under "baseless" as well. Am I off here?
-Raya's questions and especially the prod to get an answer (so mainly post #82) gives me a town vibe.
-Tonally, everything piisirrational in this last page feels like scum. I can't really put my finger on why, or at least, I don't know how exactly to explain it. Ironically enough, I think it's something about the need to explain, over-explain or needlessly explain (and not making a great job of it).
-It can be a bit dangerous to get a town read from a post simply because you totally agree with it, but that's what's happened when I read Umlaut's post just now.
I answer this a little above, but to add something perhaps more precise, I'd say that hinting and muddying the waters is a surprisingly effective scum strategy, in my experience (it works in real life too!In post 74, Raya36 wrote:Would you consider any of the joking to be AI in this game so far?In post 52, Ghost Ganster wrote:I played somewhat frequently for a while, a few years ago, on another site where mafia was more serious business than here. Or maybe it's just that the days were shorter so the levity lasted less by necessity? Either way, I'm still getting used to all the jokes, the in-site references and such. That was a one-way-ticket to lynch-town where I used to play! XDIn post 27, Umlaut wrote:I'm curious about the newbies' past experience with Mafia here. Is this your first game? Did you play on another site first? Have you already played a game with anyone else in this one?).
And this is where I strongly disagree.
Why does town only do that when they have a good case?In post 89, piisirrational wrote:It is not scum-oriented to jump on the biggest wagon. Town does that but only when they have a good case to push. Umlaut's post 27 of bringing someone to L-2 with the reasoning of "bigger wagons are nicer," especially after already putting down an RVS vote, seemed more likely to come from scum than from town, even if minorly so. And hence, gibus, why I find it to not be NAI.In post 82, Raya36 wrote:Pi can you answer this?In post 76, Raya36 wrote:Why is it scum oriented to jump on the biggest wagon?
@gibus: To me, a vote is "opportunistic" if the person casting the vote already has a vote on someone else, but decides to switch over to a bigger wagon with the same/worse justification of voting the bigger wagon compared to the one they already voted.
I'm getting the general vibe that they're not used to how RVS works on this site yet and reading too much into an RVS wagon. So I'm not seeing an agenda being pushed. Also the meta reads on them are making me lean town as wellIn post 99, gibus wrote: @Raya, how did your read on pie progress?
So do you consider lurkers as policy lynches?In post 102, Ghost Ganster wrote:This is likely not going to be popular, but I don't care too much if they're town. Giving lurkers a pass is bad, in my opinion, even if meta is at play. It's just too good for scum.In post 98, Snowblaze wrote: @Ghost Ganster: Homura has been relatively inactive as town in previous games.
She has yet to even vote, randomly or not.
@Homura, what are your scum-reads? Do consider using your vote as well, please.
No but if you want another game to look at 2000 where I self voted because town didn't do much.In post 101, gibus wrote:I read Elmo's 1989 scum game and 2000 town game and noticed that town!AzN was aggressive with their votes (mobile) similar to their play here, while scum!AzN was much more static.
Does this hold any significance?
Can you answer this please? And why didn't you answer when responding to my point about Homura earlier?In post 98, Snowblaze wrote:
Could you explain why you want me dead? And why you think Umlaut is town?
I'm going to really need you to explain this because I don't see it at all.In post 91, Homura wrote:Feels like pi town.
This is the lamest excuse for a vote I've seen all game, and I used "Wagons are nice"
In post 94, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Why are you getting defensive at a vote?
And these followups are just as bad. Panicked, really?In post 97, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:This just felt panicked. Odds are I'm wrong or they are frustrated. But to flip out over one vote just didn't feel right.In post 93, Snowblaze wrote:...how does that make me scum? I’m just throwing out whatever thoughts I have at the moment.
Somewhat agree on the first part but I don't really have any meaningful read on Snow. Why town?
Good post (though I maybe agree with the second part more than the first; I definitely do care if they're town.)In post 102, Ghost Ganster wrote:This is likely not going to be popular, but I don't care too much if they're town. Giving lurkers a pass is bad, in my opinion, even if meta is at play. It's just too good for scum.In post 98, Snowblaze wrote: @Ghost Ganster: Homura has been relatively inactive as town in previous games.
She has yet to even vote, randomly or not.
@Homura, what are your scum-reads? Do consider using your vote as well, please.
Meta read. Actually feels townier than his town game. Wording of "that was something that just stuck out" (75) feels good.In post 113, Umlaut wrote:I'm going to really need you to explain this because I don't see it at all.
This is likely not going to be popular, but I don't care too much if they're town. Giving lurkers a pass is bad, in my opinion, even if meta is at play. It's just too good for scum.In post 102, Ghost Ganster wrote: @Ghost Ganster: Homura has been relatively inactive as town in previous games.
EBWOP —In post 102, Ghost Ganster wrote:
This is likely not going to be popular, but I don't care too much if they're town. Giving lurkers a pass is bad, in my opinion, even if meta is at play. It's just too good for scum.
She has yet to even vote, randomly or not.
@Homura, what are your scum-reads? Do consider using your vote as well, please.
Where are you seeing "scumread nearly everyone" from? Post seems like general thoughtposting with both town and scum reads.In post 103, Raya36 wrote:It's concerning that you have reasons to scumread nearly everyone on the playerlist
Sorry about that. I read that and thought it was meant for one of the people making a case against and voting for you.In post 110, Snowblaze wrote:@Ghost Ganster:Can you answer this please? And why didn't you answer when responding to my point about Homura earlier?In post 98, Snowblaze wrote:
Could you explain why you want me dead? And why you think Umlaut is town?
Fixed the quote - MOD
Can you explain what "policy lynches" means, sorry?In post 107, Raya36 wrote:So do you consider lurkers as policy lynches?In post 102, Ghost Ganster wrote:This is likely not going to be popular, but I don't care too much if they're town. Giving lurkers a pass is bad, in my opinion, even if meta is at play. It's just too good for scum.In post 98, Snowblaze wrote: @Ghost Ganster: Homura has been relatively inactive as town in previous games.
She has yet to even vote, randomly or not.
@Homura, what are your scum-reads? Do consider using your vote as well, please.
What makes you say... basically all of that?In post 116, Homura wrote:EBWOP —In post 102, Ghost Ganster wrote:
This is likely not going to be popular, but I don't care too much if they're town. Giving lurkers a pass is bad, in my opinion, even if meta is at play. It's just too good for scum.
She has yet to even vote, randomly or not.
@Homura, what are your scum-reads? Do consider using your vote as well, please.
Feel one of Snow and Elmo is scum. pi and Umlaut likely town. Your reasoning about me is ill-formed but not necessarily scum-indicative.
I think it would be most probable for town to only vote for someone and bring them close to a lynch (like L-2 or L-1) if they 1) actually think the person is scum to avoid something like an early hammer or 2) does so to get information. They'd need a good explanation in either case, whether it be to convince other people to move their vote over or to explain the reasoning behind the information they're getting out of putting someone at, for example, L-2.In post 105, Raya36 wrote:Why does town only do that when they have a good case?In post 89, piisirrational wrote:It is not scum-oriented to jump on the biggest wagon. Town does that but only when they have a good case to push. Umlaut's post 27 of bringing someone to L-2 with the reasoning of "bigger wagons are nicer," especially after already putting down an RVS vote, seemed more likely to come from scum than from town, even if minorly so. And hence, gibus, why I find it to not be NAI.In post 82, Raya36 wrote:Pi can you answer this?In post 76, Raya36 wrote:Why is it scum oriented to jump on the biggest wagon?
@gibus: To me, a vote is "opportunistic" if the person casting the vote already has a vote on someone else, but decides to switch over to a bigger wagon with the same/worse justification of voting the bigger wagon compared to the one they already voted.
I don't get why this is concerning. Can you explain? To me, it looks like Ghost is just commenting on anything he finds to be AI. Just because someone does something scummy does not mean they're scum, because just everyone, regardless of their alignment, does scummy things. If there's things Ghost finds to be especially towny he's noting that as well. That post looks like Ghost is finding things other people are doing that are scummy/towny, but it doesn't look like he's actively forcing those explanations to scumread people, and I don't think he's actually scumreading over half of the playerlist.In post 103, Raya36 wrote:It's concerning that you have reasons to scumread nearly everyone on the playerlistIn post 85, Ghost Ganster wrote:I'd rather not say what site, sorry. It's not for mafia-related reasons, though.In post 53, Hectic wrote:Thank you! How about I only promise to troll on even posts? Odd posts will be completely, utterly, deadly serious.
What site do you come from, and do you think anything alignment-indicative has happened so far?
As for alignment-indicative things (and I'll list some things that are very borderline, here, just to further discussion, get more opinions and reactions):
-Umlaut's voting, mirroring and immediately following mine twice, looks so fishy that they actually feel like town (like "scum wouldn't do this", which is a faulty assumption, but you get where I'm coming from, I think).
-I'm generally wary of statements of facts that in actuality are opinions, so #30 (Elmo's post), looks slightly scummy, even if it's a joke (which is not clear to me).
-Raya answering your question about the most efficient way of "consuming" time as town, and then not doing it, basically at all, is slightly scummy as well.
-Your inside joking/weird hinting/trolling makes me very paranoid that I'm just not gonna be able to get a read on you and/or that I'll get annoyed at you, which will affect my opinion of you in an unhelpful way. I think being useful and cooperative is a good town trait, and in the vast majority of cases, not being so is either scummy or just good for scum.
-Snowblaze having exactly zero reads... I wouldn't say it's necessarily indicative of an alignment, but once again it's unhelpful, so it does raise my suspicions. I'm of the opinion that having bad reads (whatever "bad" means) is better than having none, so I personally wouldforcemyself to get some (if you get what I mean) in her shoes. Thankfully I'm paranoid enough that it's never going to happen, most likely. XD
-Elmo's following post was scummy as well. Not the vote itself, but the lack of an explanation and especially the one-liner used ("You can't make Lylo"), which I find very weird to say at this stage of the game.
-Your post, #68, is helpful but worded scummily, or at least the lack of an acknowledgement that you and Umlaut could both be scum is.
-Elmo's post, #69, gives me town vibes. I'm not sure I agree with it (unless here scum often makes very early hammers happen and gets away with it later?), but it's something that's worth noting in general and in a newbie game especially, and I don't think scum would do it. I feel that he could have found/bullshitted other reasons to explain his vote on Snowblaze in that case.
-Elmo's posts #78 and #79, go back to irk me, simply because I would say the wagonwasstill random voting, because at the end of the day it was based on gibus' scumclaim joke. Maybe we just have a different definition of it, though? I would be interested in knowing. Personally, I would equate random voting with "baseless", and I would include joke-votes under "baseless" as well. Am I off here?
-Raya's questions and especially the prod to get an answer (so mainly post #82) gives me a town vibe.
-Tonally, everything piisirrational in this last page feels like scum. I can't really put my finger on why, or at least, I don't know how exactly to explain it. Ironically enough, I think it's something about the need to explain, over-explain or needlessly explain (and not making a great job of it).
-It can be a bit dangerous to get a town read from a post simply because you totally agree with it, but that's what's happened when I read Umlaut's post just now.
I answer this a little above, but to add something perhaps more precise, I'd say that hinting and muddying the waters is a surprisingly effective scum strategy, in my experience (it works in real life too!In post 74, Raya36 wrote:Would you consider any of the joking to be AI in this game so far?In post 52, Ghost Ganster wrote:I played somewhat frequently for a while, a few years ago, on another site where mafia was more serious business than here. Or maybe it's just that the days were shorter so the levity lasted less by necessity? Either way, I'm still getting used to all the jokes, the in-site references and such. That was a one-way-ticket to lynch-town where I used to play! XDIn post 27, Umlaut wrote:I'm curious about the newbies' past experience with Mafia here. Is this your first game? Did you play on another site first? Have you already played a game with anyone else in this one?
You'll be disappointed if you expected a full-length analysis of my reads at this point of the game. My reads are mainly tone so far.In post 118, Ghost Ganster wrote: What makes you say... basically all of that?
-Why do you feel one of Snow and Elmo is scum? Why aren't you voting for one of them? Why aren't you doing something to see if you can clarify your either/or opinion of them with questions, pressure and such?
-Why are piisirrational and Umlaut likely town?
-Why do you think my reasoning about you is ill-informed and non necessarily scum-indicative?