Mini Theme 2164: Betrayal Mafia I (Game over!)

[PenguinPower]

“Item: You find a dire wombat and are reminded that Pine failed us all.”

link to VC on this page

[Bingle]

ABR: am I wrong in my impression that you would want to be the scum role that would need to survive, the idea that you would be able to get your way, or both?

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR: am I wrong in my impression that you would want to be the scum role that would need to survive, the idea that you would be able to get your way, or both?

The former. The latter depends on the rest of the scum.

[Bingle]

Interesting. Are you aware of why scum you wants me to come to the opposite conclusion?

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually is the wombat thing something from a mafia game, or like, a DnD session?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Interesting. Are you aware of why scum you wants me to come to the opposite conclusion?

???

[Bingle]

There's a scum utility to being the top of the list if you wouldn't actually try to be the Voice, but I'll hold off on explaining why until more people weigh in on the question because I think it's an interesting area to develop conversation and reads.

[Bingle]

Actually is the wombat thing something from a mafia game, or like, a DnD session?

Check out Pine's sig.

[PenguinPower]

Actually is the wombat thing something from a mafia game, or like, a DnD session?

Mish Mash interactive story

[Pine]

Grumble grumble I’ll get it started again soon.

[lilith2013]

V OTECOUNT 1.002
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES		S TRENGTH	S PEED	K NOWLEDGE	P LAYER N AME
Gamma Emerald	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Gamma Emerald
SirCakez	CreativeMod1, Fun and Games, Bingle	EL-4	2	3	3	SirCakez
GeorgeBailey	None	EL-7	3	3	4	GeorgeBailey
CreativeMod1	None	EL-7	3	3	3	CreativeMod1
Albert B. Rampage	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Albert B. Rampage
Pine	None	EL-7	3	3	4	Pine
Bingle	PenguinPower	EL-6	3	3	3	Bingle
Nosferatu	SirCakez	EL-6	3	3	1	Nosferatu
DoctorPepper	Ydrasse	EL-6	3	3	3	DoctorPepper
PenguinPower	Pine, Nosferatu	EL-5	3	3	3	PenguinPower
Fun and Games	DoctorPepper, Albert B. Rampage	EL-5	3	3	3	Fun and Games
Ydrasse	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Ydrasse
beeboy	Gamma Emerald	EL-6	3	3	3	beeboy
Not Voting	GeorgeBailey, beeboy
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate. Deadline: (expired on 2020-09-27 23:16:10)
Notes: beeboy is V/LA until Sept 21

[lilith2013]

Mod: If a doctor explores and finds a lab, will that be made public the next day?

Please see the following:

The discovery of permanent Rooms is announced at the beginning of the Day phase, but not by whom they were discovered.

LABS are included in "permanent Rooms."

[Bingle]

@mod, the rules reference hidden permanent rooms that we can interact with at our own risk. Can you confirm whether any of these hidden rooms are potentially labs?

[lilith2013]

@mod, the rules reference hidden permanent rooms that we can interact with at our own risk. Can you confirm whether any of these hidden rooms are potentially labs?

Any type of room that can be interacted with as a night action (permanent rooms + LABS) can be hidden. Players cannot interact with rooms that have not been discovered.

[SirCakez]

I did read the rules but there's just a lot so I probably forgot some things

VOTE: SirCakez

My previous vote was also serious, but I feel better about this.

Oh do enlighten me

[Fun and Games]

I'd like everyone to talk about whether they would have been the voice or not and why. Note: this is not a list of towniness, but rather an "If they were scum 100%, would they have chosen to be the neverlynch scum."

(Just gonna out this cuz i can tell i'm gonna get frustrated: this is skitter, *waves*)

In many permutations of the pl it's probably me
If there's some combination of like you, abr, pine and me being scum it might be up for debate, but i would also imagine that there would be elaborate distancing shenanigans

I think you're ranking pine too low, bu agree with your assessment of abr. Not sure what you mean by 103 tho

~ games

[CreativeMod1]

Lol so much going on, still trying to wrap my head round the whole set up

I explored last night

What is this voice that people are talking about? I may have missed it in the rules?

[Nosferatu]

Or like now there's 2 labs. What if 6 people pile on the first one and nobody goes to the second one?

~Games

i call dibs on the eugene lab

[GeorgeBailey]

Like I just dont fully understand what the benefit is to deliberately be secretive about everything

If Doctors know who explored, they know that person has a higher chance of having an item. I really don't think mass claiming night actions is a good idea.

[Bingle]

Like I just dont fully understand what the benefit is to deliberately be secretive about everything

If Doctors know who explored, they know that person has a higher chance of having an item. I really don't think mass claiming night actions is a good idea.

Explored =/= Has an item.
Has an item =/= would be a better scumkill.

There is absolutely no guarantee that an item is positive utility, or that exploring a room doesn't just drop you in a pit trap and do damage.

OTOH, having a rough idea of how often we're going to hit labs is potentially useful as we weigh whether labs need to be focused on. (Individually).

[Bingle]

(Just gonna out this cuz i can tell i'm gonna get frustrated: this is skitter, *waves*)

Ah. I'd guess that you'd be right above me in the list.

Pine certainly could fulfill the role of scumlord with extra power, sure. He wouldn't though. Pine doesn't like to solo endgame, he likes to set up his team to win after he goes down. Given that option in the pregame, he pretty much always goes for the latter, I think.

And because someone asked: The Voice is one of the scums that makes the secondary scum win con slightly easier to achieve while they're alive. (Functionally, they require one fewer lab to win.) Scum chose which one of them would be the Voice in the pregame. There may or may not be additional benefits or restrictions associated with being the voice.

Admittedly, the assignment of the voice would seem to mean very little in most cases, but I think there's a way we can twist the mechanic to town's advantage, and want to hear people's thoughts on whether or not they (or others) would likely want to be the voice and why, both in pursuit of that and as a way to kick off legitimate scumhunting.

[GeorgeBailey]

Explored =/= Has an item.
Has an item =/= would be a better scumkill.

Yeah, that's why I said higher chance. Scum doesn't really have a reason to target people who went to a lab. It narrows down night actions for them.

And scum has an additional attack, they can steal and attack for damage.

[Fun and Games]

I have been thinking about the setup and below are some of my thoughts so far.



I've played similar games where there are rooms etc and one way to find the bad guys is to have a running tally of actions etc.

It seems one way the scum could kill people is by attacking them at night as one of their actions - as room exploration, lab deactivation attacks are not public actions.

In lieu of a standard nightkill, the scum have an anonymous attack - they also could attack somebody directly if they believe they have a good chance of killing them as a dead person is unable to say anything.

They can also use their nightactions to attack a person directly,

For example the entire scum team could attack Bingle and if they succeed in dealing him enough damage - he would not be able to tell us who his attackers were as he is dead.

One way I thought of to deal with this is if we coordinate our night actions on rooms that provide verification.

For example if all of us were to use the gym - all of us would get a speed increase of 1 - scum who would try to do something evil would not get this speed increase and be exposed.


Also @Nosferatu - what happened to your knowledge? Did the scum use their factional ability to reduce it? This would put you very close to dying if I am reading the rules correctly and you should go to the library to fix this.


Also as for mech-speculation - I do not believe it is a priority to destroy the labs currently as our player count is quite high - it would make sense imo to have higher knowledge players destroy labs.

A player with a knowledge score of 3 has only a 10/27 chance of de-activating a lab successfully - and failure would be a wasted action on the part of the town. Also the lower the probability of success is, the easier it is for scum to do something evil and pretend like his night-action was to de-activate a lab when it really was not.


~Fun

[Fun and Games]

It also seems to me to be a priority to have a player with a very high knowledge stat that can reliably destroy labs now and later when they become activated - an activated lab has only a 1/27 chance of being de-activated by someone with knowledge 3 - but it is much better odds at knowledge 5-6.

This game is unique in that the scum do not have the ability to outright nightkill a player if I am reading the rules correctly - hence if we were to stack a universal town-read with knowledge items, that player could have a very high knowledge stat and do the job of destroying any labs we find. - In fact if I'm reading the rules correctly this would not even require a universal town-read - if for example a player has some innate profession that gives bonus to knowledge - we could stack them with knowledge items and use them to destroy any labs we find.

[Ydrasse]

i'm fine with a running tally of actions personally. i think that holding people to doing certain things/knowing what they did definitely makes it easier. also thanks for doing the numbers on the knowledge score stuff because while i am bad with numbers i agree with that sentiment.

however, i don't know how to feel about stacking a single player? like, say that the doctors decide to attack the stacked person one night; they use the factional attack, and then (presuming all are alive here) all attack the same person. if they're worried that they can't kill that night, they can just use their one-shot to make themselves anonymous and do the same thing tomorrow to kill them off, since at that point i think the odds would lean much more towards the doctors being able to kill whoever was stacked? also, whoever we try to stack up will most likely end up the target of the -1 knowledge loss each night.

it seems safer to me to try and have a more even spread among everyone statwise because we could lose a lot of time/resources by pouring them into one person who we might lose quickly. also, i think that it being a utr would be more beneficial because... well, you trust them. doctors could have a knowledge-based ability that boosts them and we wouldn't be any the wiser until we start investing into them and oh, that's weird, why aren't any of the labs destroyed yet.